98 replies to this topic

[Wendigo Vendetta]

In CW I thought that Clan Mechs were overpowered. I thought that there was a balance issue which needed to be addressed. I saw the steamrolling both on the field and on the strategic map and thought, "this would not be happening if there was a power balance between the opposing sides... it just makes no sense".

In fact, I agreed with those calling for a reconsideration of the balance between Clan and Inner Sphere. I read the posts and found many of them well reasoned and well thought out.

But, then I read the posts by Clan players and I must admit... I was totally wrong all along. So are the majority of the player base... you are all just plain wrong. It was the plethora of vociferous Clan player denials that won me over, along with this gleaming nugget of pure, unbiased wisdom from a Ghost Bear player:

"In short:
IS has better laser vomit, better LRM's, better PPC's, better SRM's, better autocannons.
Amusingly enough, I.S. tech far outstrips clan tech, as much as people hate to admit it now."

Now, I know what you must be saying, "Aren't those are denials an attempt to preserve their poorly balanced advantages?" and "How can so many rational I.S. player simultaneously be wrong about the balance issues?"

"Bah", I say! You MUST stop distracting from the issue with these spurious assertions of empirically verifiable facts. The Clan players KNOW that the I.S. has better tech in every mechanical way. How can you deny that? Why would any Clan player ever assert such a blatant falsehood?

Furthermore, we must face the sad reality that the I.S. technological superiority and imbalance in favor of the I.S. implies: All the I.S. players are, by an unfathomable coincidence, the worst players in the game and the Clan players are (by an equally amazing coincidence) true, sterling examples of mech playing paragons in every conceivable way.

Never mind how this bizarre division of players came to be or the astronomical odds against such a natural misdistribution; that is a question best not pursued by the weaker I.S. player minds not fit to bear the weight of intellectual heavy lifting.

What is REALLY important to know is this: Saddled with this enormous and unjust disadvantage, the Clan players have risen above their shoddy equipment and steamrolled their way across the I.S. with aplomb, humility, grace, and an inspiring dedication to fair play that inspires us all to rise above whatever similarly crippling circumstances we may face in our own lives (such as cancer or homelessness).

There is lesson be learned here; a deep moral lesson. And, in units across the Inner Sphere it is being learned against all odds. I.S. players are turning from the unjust and reprehensibly imbalanced advantages of I.S. tech, and going over to the Clan side of CW.

Now, you may find it amazing that such horrible players and blatant liars like that I.S. lot could be convinced to turn from their horrible and unfair mechanical advantages, but its happening.

You will be all the more amazed to learn that the Clan players have not been selfish in their obviously superior skills and amazing dedication to overcoming the Clan tech disadvantage. The improved victory ratios of those converts to the Clan side are a true testament to unselfish sharing. The old guard Clan players have unselfishly shared their inherently superior secrets to victory,allowing these new Clan converts to excel in these new (inferior) mechs as well! In this holiday season, the generosity is truly inspiring!

But, let us not dwell simply on this new learning and the radically, astronomically increased play skills of those unselfish, advantage denying new Clan players... the true miracle here is he speed involved in he teaching of these new superior play skills. The continued march of the Clans, unabated by the disadvantage of absorbing a massive influx of all those substandard players, clearly indicates that the old guard Clan players have learned long lost secrets of martial instruction once reserved to Viet Nam era drill instructors and the legendary senseis of the mythic age.

That is why this CW turn of events goes far beyond the implications inside of a simple video game. This is truly a turning point for he world; pedagogy as we know it will be changed forever by these selfless, divinely inspired souls.

I, for one, would like to be the first to welcome of Clan player overlords.

Edited by Wendigo Vendetta, 28 December 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[cSand]

hey I'm glad someone finally wrote a big post about this

Edited by cSand, 28 December 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[Flaming oblivion]

[Mcgral18]

[Cer6erus]

https://imgflip.com/i/fsh1x

Damn, I don't know how to post memes so they show up :/

Edited by Cer6erus, 28 December 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Cer6erus, on 28 December 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

https://imgflip.com/i/fsh1x

Damn, I don't know how to post memes so they show up :/

That bar of icons above the posting box; the one that looks like a picture. Hover over it, if it says "Image" you've got the right one. Paste the image URL into the box that pops up.

Or,


[img} {/img]

Replacing the { with ] and placing the URL between the two }{

Edited by Mcgral18, 28 December 2014 - 05:17 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

sadly most of the Clan weapons are better is because,
some(not all) IS players put all weapons in one bracket,

example,
Fact Clan lasers have greater Range, and better Damage,
most Clan Ballistic weapons weigh less than IS Ballistic weapons,
all Clan Missile weapons weigh Much less than IS Missile weapons,
(so they say all Clan weapons have greater Range, and better Damage and weigh Much less)

Facts
IS laser have less duration, less heat, less damage, less range,
Clan Lasers have more duration, more heat, more damage, more range,
IS LL/ER-LL/PPC/ER-PPC all only weigh +1ton,

IS Ballistics fire a single shell, and IS ACs fire just as fast as Clan AC-Ultras,
Clan Ballistics fire a stream of shells, and Clan AC-Ultras fire just as Clan ACs,
IS AC2/5 only weigh +1ton, AC10/20 only weigh +2tons, IS Gauss only weigh +3tons,

IS Missiles fire in a single volley, all hitting at once also hiding the launcher,
Clan Missiles fire in a Stream, but this stream also suffers at AMS and gives away the launcher,
IS Missiles all weight double to Clan Missiles,

but remember Clan free tonnage is locked, where as IS can always upgrade,
and or change internal equipment, engines to free up space or tonnage,
or and then their are the Quirks,

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 28 December 2014 - 05:38 PM.

[Sturmbringer]

dear sir.. what clan players write is called PROPAGANDA. spreading misinformation in the Forum war to help their cause. nice post though.. much nice than mine. kudos.

[Mcgral18]

Sturmbringer, on 28 December 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

dear sir.. what clan players write is called PROPAGANDA. spreading misinformation in the Forum war to help their cause. nice post though.. much nice than mine. kudos.

Both were pretty terrible, and rife with flaws.


But don't let that stop your opinion. Just because it's not factual doesn't mean you can't have one.

[Scratx]

Wendigo Vendetta, on 28 December 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

But, then I read the posts by Clan players and I must admit... I was totally wrong all along. So are the majority of the player base... you are all just plain wrong. It was the plethora of vociferous Clan player denials that won me over, along with this gleaming nugget of pure, unbiased wisdom from a Ghost Bear player:

"In short:
IS has better laser vomit, better LRM's, better PPC's, better SRM's, better autocannons.
Amusingly enough, I.S. tech far outstrips clan tech, as much as people hate to admit it now."

Using appropriately quirked mechs, totally true 'cept maybe the SRMs.

I know, shocking.

And for some of that, you don't even need quirked mechs. *eyes LRMs and regular PPCs and autocannons*

[Sturmbringer]

post more clan forum warrior . go for the 7000th post !!! you can do it !!

[Hootchie]

I stopped at "In CW"

[Tesunie]

Andi Nagasia, on 28 December 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

IS Ballistics fire a single shell, and IS ACs fire just as fast as Clan AC-Ultras,
Clan Ballistics fire a stream of shells, and Clan AC-Ultras fire just as Clan ACs,

Most of your information seems to be spot on as far as I can tell, except for this. Clan Ultra ACs can shoot like an IS Ultra AC. If you are getting the same firing rate with a clan UAC as with a clan normal AC, then you are holding down the button. If you click the button faster than a normal AC can fire with an Ultra, it will shoot out an additional shot/volley-of-shots between "actual" reloads, at the risk of a jam (just like IS UACs).



Clan weapons typically have better DPS, range and weight; at the cost of heat, damage spread (burst fire ACs, longer beam durations for lasers and ripple fire LRMs) and "locked" upgrades, engines and only a set amount of available tonnage "pod space" (which is part of the reason clan mechs need the lighter gear).

I'm not claiming that Clan and IS tech are perfectly balanced, but I feel they aren't too far off right now. With the proper tactics, an IS mech can easily beat a Clan mech. I'm also not claiming that additional balance may be needed over time between the two different tech types.

Don't forget IS advantages though at the same time. We have pin point AC damage, LRMs that fire in a single volley, shorter duration laser beams, generally cooler running weapons; we also have battlemechs that can change their engine sizes, change upgrades, and can gain/lose tonnage for additional gear if desired.

If anything is currently out of balance, I feel it's probably not clan weapons but clan XL engines. Now, I understand and support lore in this one, but that extra survivability clan mechs get with XLs with those space savings (which I do feel they need each to even work) is a huge bonus. The already added to penalties for losing a side torso is a good start, but that may be the item that could probably use more balancing and changes to bring clan mechs more into line with IS mechs.


(Of course, this is my observations and opinions.)

[Vassago Rain]

Community warfare in picture form.

[Andi Nagasia]

Tesunie, on 28 December 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

If anything is currently out of balance, I feel it's probably not clan weapons but clan XL engines. Now, I understand and support lore in this one, but that extra survivability clan mechs get with XLs with those space savings (which I do feel they need each to even work) is a huge bonus. The already added to penalties for losing a side torso is a good start, but that may be the item that could probably use more balancing and changes to bring clan mechs more into line with IS mechs.

yes, but IS does have a counter,
IS will eventually get LFE in 3053-55,
IS LFE act as Clan XL but for IS,

i think if LFE where added for IS allot of the Anti Clan Bias would end,
as IS would have a choice between STD and XL engines,

[Vassago Rain]

Andi Nagasia, on 28 December 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

yes, but IS does have a counter,
IS will eventually get LFE in 3053-55,
IS LFE act as Clan XL but for IS,

i think if LFE where added for IS allot of the Anti Clan Bias would end,
as IS would have a choice between STD and XL engines,

Light engines save 25% tonnage, as opposed to 50%.

[Dirty Starfish]

Is has better brawlers, Clan has better ranged fighters. It's why clan dominates on the cold map and IS has a pretty easy time on the hot one.

[lsp]

Nice essay.

[Wesxander]

Let's ignore clan weapons like more ammo per tonnage, not mentioned above clan ultras get 45 to 50 more percent ammo per ton than IS. Let's ignore superior heatsinks. Let's ignore superior XL engine design. Let's ignore clan targeting computer. Let's ignore LRM's that fire like SRM's. In fact let's ignore the weapon the IS used to turn back the clans called gauss rifle has intentionally been nerfed to charge and fire type weapon (its supposed to fire slower than ac 20 but instead we get this got hold the charge crap and time the shot) which is to hard to do when your screen is shaking from constant hits. Let's ignore clans are playing in Team speak and ending up getting CW games against mostly IS pugs. Their weapons superior across the board and then getting defense missions with turrets and dropships when they are on the offense.
Then you got some their players talking about how bad ass they are. Some these guys would be freaking hard pressed to play in PERSON tournaments where no 3 rd party programs of any kind would be allowed.

Also whoever talking about LTE's that is not 3055 tech. Your talking 3060 or 3065 there not sure why it was even brought up but get the time line right.

[Golden Vulf]

Vassago Rain, on 28 December 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Light engines save 25% tonnage, as opposed to 50%.

And think of the IS mechs that are plenty effective using a standard engine. Now give them 25% of their engine's tonnage in extra equipment. Do you see now?

Meanwhile more than half of clan mechs still can't take endo steel structure.