330 replies to this topic

[Bluttrunken]

Khobai, on 01 January 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

I personally think the CERML is responsible for a lot of the imbalance. You see every clan mech using them and for good reason.

Its 7 damage for 1 friggin ton. No other weapon in the game comes close to giving you that kindve damage vs tonnage conversion.

I would like to see CERML reduced from 7 damage and 6 heat to 6 damage and 5 heat.

I don't see much problem with CERML. The Heat they generate offset their damage nicely, and the beam duration is long enough to give it less pinpoint potential as well as lowering the average damage potential of the weapon.

Before PGI does anything with the clans, they should just revisit the Snow Map and give it a balance pass. Imo, this map causes the most problems for IS atm because it allows the clans to utilize it's strengths to the fullest without leaving much options to IS players to circumvent them.

Nerfing clans, again, across the board is premature.

Also let PGI come out of their holidays. The spam on the forums gonna be quite shocking/amusing/interesting to them.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't see much problem with CERML. The Heat they generate offset their damage nicely, and the beam duration is long enough to give it less pinpoint potential as well as lowering the average damage potential of the weapon.

The problem is you can fire off two or three alphas before heat is even an issue. And at 7 damage a piece thats a huge amount of frontloaded damage. Especially when every player on the team is using Stormcrows with 5 ERML and a LPL. Two stormcrows can easily gang up on and kill any mech in the game without overheating. So heats not really a balancing factor there...

Quote

Nerfing clans, again, across the board is premature.

I disagree. PGI's whole plan for balancing clan weapons was to make them "equal but different". In some cases clan tech might be slightly better or slightly worse. But its obvious the huge disparity that exists between the CERML vs the ISML doesnt fit PGI's overall vision for balancing clan tech.

Right now the longer beam duration and higher heat on the CERML doesnt even come close to offsetting the vastly higher damage and range. Lowering the damage to 6 and the heat to 5 would help normalize the CERML a bit more. The CERML would still be a much better weapon, but at least it wouldnt be insanely better.

Clan Gauss is another huge problem weapon IMO. Its 3 tons lighter than IS gauss, but it has no downside whatsoever to balance out that huge advantage. Clan Gauss should have a longer charge time and/or cooldown than IS gauss IMO.

Edited by Khobai, 01 January 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[Bluttrunken]

Khobai, on 01 January 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

The problem is you can fire off two or three alphas before heat is even an issue. And at 7 damage a piece thats a huge amount of frontloaded damage. Especially when every player on the team is using Stormcrows with 5 ERML and a LPL.

Two or Three Alphas? Against a mobile IS player Two or Three Laser Alphas a. spread on locations and b. never do full damage. It overheats rapidly, it can't really take any pressure. My CN9-AL has a competitive loadout, 2LL, 2ML and 2SRM4(45.2 Alpha 1.19 HtMgt against 48 Alpha and 1.18 HtMgt on the Stormcrow(no TC)) and doesnt overheat as fast as a Stormcrow with your setup. The decreased Laser Duration also helps greatly to maximize the DPS of the Weapons while the Heat Generation Quirks keep it decidely cooler. Cent is as sturdy, agile and fast as a Crow, too(or can be, with the proper XL Engine). The Main Drawback is the Range and an IS XL Engine with the danger of sidetorso death. Not to speak of fast IS Lights and Mediums with JJ which very much have the potential in them to eat such a crow for breakfast and any other similarly build Clan Mech.

The Crow setup really can only shine when the Clan player can use range and cover to full potential. Basically the CW snow map delivers IS players on a platter. I wouldn't expect IS to win an attack there even with the most equal setup possible. And we can't take this map as a measure for needed nerfs. The map should be completely redesigned, imo. And it's also a mistake to take one of the strongest clan mechs, the SCR, as a measure for nerfs, as it was a mistake with the Timber. PGI should reevaluate the chassis instead of nerfing all clan mechs at once.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 01 January 2015 - 03:22 PM.

[MischiefSC]

So you are comparing srms with lasers, which isn't even close. Also the clan weapons have literally 2x the range.

So better accuracy (by far) and 2x the range, plus a huge increase in survivability (clan xl). They are not equal, the SC is drastically better.

That is the crux of it. Two clan mechs are significantly better overall for huge tonnage. Cermls are a big part of that.

[Bluttrunken]

MischiefSC, on 01 January 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

So you are comparing srms with lasers, which isn't even close. Also the clan weapons have literally 2x the range.

So better accuracy (by far) and 2x the range, plus a huge increase in survivability (clan xl). They are not equal, the SC is drastically better.

That is the crux of it. Two clan mechs are significantly better overall for huge tonnage. Cermls are a big part of that.

And you didn't read my post. If the IS player is able to offset the range and get the Crow under pressure, the Crow's at a disadvantage. The heatmanagement is so poor, and the Laser Damage spreads so much that he stops being a considerable threat. That's true for many laserbuilds on the clan-side. I'd never take a Crow with such a poor heatmanagement into battle and I prefer MPLs over MLs on my crow. (And where do I compare SRMs with lasers?) Should we start nerfing IS ACs now because they are alot better than Clan ACs? Besides some quirked mechs have much more effective MLs/LLs/MPLs/LPLs then Clan Mechs as well. The CN9-AL in the example has LLs with 20% less duration, cooldown and heat through quirks, the MLs 10%. The LLs have a shorter duration after quirks then Clan MLs. Needless to say I perform with both mechs equally well.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 01 January 2015 - 04:21 PM.

[MischiefSC]

I'm saying that the crow this described has almost the exact same heat profile, better range an survivability for the tonnage. Is there a narrow situation where the cent can at least reduce the crows advantage? Sure. Overall though the crow is a better mech and a better build.

At point blank with lots of cover a boomjag is arguably a better mech than a tdr 9s - on sulfur, if they are face to face at 100m. As a given rule though the 9s with 3xerppc is a better mech for the tonnage.

[R Razor]

k05h3lk1n, on 01 January 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

And you didn't read my post. If the IS player is able to offset the range and get the Crow under pressure, the Crow's at a disadvantage.

That might be true if you didn't have 4+ Crows all focusing on the same target in most games..........

[Bluttrunken]

R Razor, on 01 January 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

That might be true if you didn't have 4+ Crows all focusing on the same target in most games..........

That's more a problem of the layout of the snow map and the tendency of IS players to try to play the hide and peek game at 500m+ on it, with less cover and inferior weapons at that range. The snow map puts clan players on a distinct advantage.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 01 January 2015 - 04:46 PM.

[Yokaiko]

R Razor, on 01 January 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

That might be true if you didn't have 4+ Crows all focusing on the same target in most games..........

If they IS guys would actually push that would be fine. Every pug is the same thing, ten minutes of typing for MAYBE one attack. Or like the last game a guy just takes off and starts fighting just inside the gate while still forming.

Then the second they get shot at, boom full stop.

Its called a rush, MOVE people.

[R Razor]

Wrong and wrong.............moving or not, map specifics or not..........4 Crows hitting with 5 ERML focusing on the same target is possible and in fact likely in most games played.........doesn't matter if it's CW or not.

[Bluttrunken]

Yokaiko, on 01 January 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

If they IS guys would actually push that would be fine. Every pug is the same thing, ten minutes of typing for MAYBE one attack. Or like the last game a guy just takes off and starts fighting just inside the gate while still forming.

Then the second they get shot at, boom full stop.

Its called a rush, MOVE people.

Yeah, I think the only chance IS has on a snow map attack is a fast and hard match.

[Bluttrunken]

R Razor, on 01 January 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Wrong and wrong.............moving or not, map specifics or not..........4 Crows hitting with 5 ERML focusing on the same target is possible and in fact likely in most games played.........doesn't matter if it's CW or not.

That's utter nonsense. Don't know what else to say to that, utter nonsense. Besides 4 Cents going into a brawl with those 4 crows, focusing 1 crow at a time, will see those 4 crows most likely dead. Or 4 Locusts/Firestarters.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 01 January 2015 - 05:05 PM.

[Donas]

{me: You are in such a vast majority here}

k05h3lk1n, on 01 January 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Show me proof for this or stop talking so much nonsense.

133 replies, and only 5 of them think boycotting is a good idea.

The problem with Solo players boycotting a game-mode that is designed for team play, and even prioritizes it the drop que, is that they remove themselves from the data pool. Unless you have some method of flagging someone as an 'active boycott', they statistically don't even exist, since they can not be measured.

As for the rest of the nonsense I posted, it was ways for the organized groups to functionally force the strategy of the game so that solo players run into more fair fights and have more fun, so I'm not sure what you're referring to there either.

k05h3lk1n, on 01 January 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

That's utter nonsense. Don't know what else to say to that, utter nonsense. Besides 4 Cents going into a brawl with those 4 crows, focusing 1 crow at a time, will see those 4 crows most likely dead. Or 4 Locusts/Firestarters.

^^ exactly this. Focus Fire will knock down every mech in the game. Its one of the basics in team coordination. Calling targets and focusing fire. You can pretty much get away with going as far as "Four of <insert any mech> focusing on one <insert any other mech> will cut it to ribbons in mere moments."

Teamwork is OP.

[Zoid]

k05h3lk1n, on 01 January 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Before PGI does anything with the clans, they should just revisit the Snow Map and give it a balance pass. Imo, this map causes the most problems for IS atm because it allows the clans to utilize it's strengths to the fullest without leaving much options to IS players to circumvent them.

This needs a lot more emphasis. It's why the TDR-9S is the go-to option for IS. The clans are not necessarily OP, but clans defending on the snow map plays entirely to their strengths.

I'd be interested to see how many of the "clans are OP" posts come directly from having to attack against them on that map.

[Mystere]

k05h3lk1n, on 01 January 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Before PGI does anything with the clans, they should just revisit the Snow Map and give it a balance pass. Imo, this map causes the most problems for IS atm because it allows the clans to utilize it's strengths to the fullest without leaving much options to IS players to circumvent them.

Zoid, on 01 January 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

This needs a lot more emphasis. It's why the TDR-9S is the go-to option for IS. The clans are not necessarily OP, but clans defending on the snow map plays entirely to their strengths.

I'd be interested to see how many of the "clans are OP" posts come directly from having to attack against them on that map.

I say leave the current maps alone and instead create new ones that shake things up for the attacker and/or defender (e.g. force clans into a brawl). Also add other game modes.

Not everything needs to be nerfed/buffed to death ad infinitum in this never ending search for the mythical "balance". Some "balancing" nerf/buff cycles have already gone full circle, which in the end accomplished absolutely nothing except waste PGI's time, money, and other very limited resources.

Edited by Mystere, 01 January 2015 - 08:59 PM.

[R Razor]

Donas, on 01 January 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

^^ exactly this. Focus Fire will knock down every mech in the game. Its one of the basics in team coordination. Calling targets and focusing fire. You can pretty much get away with going as far as "Four of <insert any mech> focusing on one <insert any other mech> will cut it to ribbons in mere moments."

Teamwork is OP.

Except the CROW team will be able to do so at a much longer range, and moving faster will be able to keep the range open, negating the alleged "brawling" advantage the IS has. Thank you, please come again.

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 01 January 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Except the CROW team will be able to do so at a much longer range, and moving faster will be able to keep the range open, negating the alleged "brawling" advantage the IS has. Thank you, please come again.

Put them in a map the size and complexity of Hong Kong, and in another game mode. See my post immediately above yours.

[Donas]

R Razor, on 01 January 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Except the CROW team will be able to do so at a much longer range, and moving faster will be able to keep the range open, negating the alleged "brawling" advantage the IS has. Thank you, please come again.

Word has it y'all have a ton of help showing up today, so we'll see how that clan border does this week.

[ApolloKaras]

I dunno went up against 3 groups of Jade Falcon tonight, didn't seem to have too many issues.

[R Razor]

Donas, on 01 January 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

Word has it y'all have a ton of help showing up today, so we'll see how that clan border does this week.

Not "ya'll" as I'm out until PGI gets the broken mechanics fixed and finds a way to bring the game to a more balanced and playable level for everyone. I don't get my rocks off on pug stomping like some folks around here do and as it stands now, that's the game you have to play to compete consistently.

In CW you play TW / SC / HB and toss in a light for good measure......in PUG you drop in a meta TW / SC or support your meta teammates in your HB........game has very little appeal to me in its current state, and I just dropped another $80 on it a week ago for the Resistance Pack. I figure if the game doesn't go belly up then it'll be there once PGI removes their head from their 4th point of contact and brings the game to what it should be.