330 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

So your solution is to tell the IS to take hotter and heavier weapons (slowing them down even more and certainly not brawling weapons) in order to attempt to overcome faster mechs with more lighter weapons? Riiiiiggghhhttt........

Uh, first phase of Boreal Vault? Yes...

Why would you start with close range weapons when you need to approach the enemy from over 2km distance?

The 2 defensive hills that allow the defenders to snipe at attackers by the gates are 700-1000m away. Why in the world would you want brawling weapons over sniping weapons?

Not to mention all the chassis/weapon combinations I listed for long range options are heavily quirked and actually more heat to damage efficient compared to Clan alternatives.

Edited by pwnface, 02 January 2015 - 09:29 AM.

[Athena Pryde]

They really should buff clan mechs to lore specifications and have a 10 (2 five mech stars) vs 12 (3 four mech Lances) instead of the nerfs like range and making clan weapons hotter and a ER PPC that spreads damage.

[R Razor]

pwnface, on 02 January 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Uh, first phase of Boreal Vault? Yes...

Why would you start with close range weapons when you need to approach the enemy from over 2km distance?

The 2 defensive hills that allow the defenders to snipe at attackers by the gates are 700-1000m away. Why in the world would you want brawling weapons over sniping weapons?

Not to mention all the chassis/weapon combinations I listed for long range options are heavily quirked and actually more heat to damage efficient compared to Clan alternatives.

Uh because you, as an IS player cannot come close to the damage output (thanks to weight differences and crit slot size differences) as your opponent can..........you bring a 3 slot ERLL with modules and you are at near equal range capability with their 1 slot (and I think 1 ton) CERML and how many of them are stuffed on each chassis?

Thanks, I'll stick with the ability to hit almost as hard at range and not intentionally handicap myself in the first phase of the drop.

[I L L]

What you said:

Parkensis, on 30 December 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

To follow true lore, the clan should be reduce either in weight drop (less than 240, or augment the IS mechs to 300) or it could be a Drop CW in numbers like 10 clan mech versus 12 IS mechs.

I have been playing CW for weeks now and we can see these battles against the clan mech are not balanced! They are faster, stronger, sturdier and better that any IS mech or group combined and rigthfully so!

But in Battletech (Mechwarrior) lore the clans have ways to respect. Like the Star system of drops, the chalenges, the bids, etc... They were ultimatly vanquished bit their code of honor and disipline and more. Here in this game the players (for most of them) have none of that to follow making this an uneven fight...

So until this is changed, I vote IS side boycotts CW altogether!
For myself I will no longer play CW until this is done proper!

Park.

What we all read: Waaaaaahhhhhh I have no skill.

[R Razor]

Athena Pryde, on 02 January 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

They really should buff clan mechs to lore specifications and have a 10 (2 five mech stars) vs 12 (3 four mech Lances) instead of the nerfs like range and making clan weapons hotter and a ER PPC that spreads damage.

No, they should buff the Clans to lore specification and then FORCE Clan Players to bid for the right to attack. At the same time, they should implement a Battle Point Value system and get rid of this forced 12 v 12 garbage. My bet is, with lore based Clans and a well working BPV you'd see 5 v 12 battles frequently............you know, a Star vs an IS Company...........and the crying from the Clans would be legendary.

[pwnface]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

Uh because you, as an IS player cannot come close to the damage output (thanks to weight differences and crit slot size differences) as your opponent can..........you bring a 3 slot ERLL with modules and you are at near equal range capability with their 1 slot (and I think 1 ton) CERML and how many of them are stuffed on each chassis?

Thanks, I'll stick with the ability to hit almost as hard at range and not intentionally handicap myself in the first phase of the drop.

Since when do C-ERML reach out to 827m or 911m?
Last time I checked C-ERML reaches out to 405m and 455m with range module. At 800-900m C-ERML are doing nearly no damage at all whereas you are doing FULL damage with ERLL.

If you are brawling during a sniping phase, you are definitely handicapping yourself.

Edited by pwnface, 02 January 2015 - 09:55 AM.

[Koniving]

Just give IS mechs access to the same size engines that Clan heavies get and call it a day.

Summoner / Timberwolf sized engines are not available to the IS for 70 and 75 ton mechs. Ergo, make it available.

Then we can have Cataphract 3Ds doing the same thing that Summoners and Timberwolves do... Leaping over gates and popping them open en masse, overwhelming the enemy defense.

Come to think about it... A jumping Orion or other 75 ton IS mech would be nice...

[R Razor]

pwnface, on 02 January 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

Since when do C-ERML reach out to 827m or 911m? If you are brawling during a sniping phase, you are definitely handicapping yourself.

How much damage will 5 to 8 CERML do at 800 meters?

Assuming the IS can hold them on target, his 3 will do what, 27?

Now, multiply that by 4 or 5 as that's generally how many Crows are doing the shooting, and how many 3 ERLL IS mechs do you usually find coordinated and focus firing a target in an attack?

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

No, they should buff the Clans to lore specification and then FORCE Clan Players to bid for the right to attack. At the same time, they should implement a Battle Point Value system and get rid of this forced 12 v 12 garbage. My bet is, with lore based Clans and a well working BPV you'd see 5 v 12 battles frequently............you know, a Star vs an IS Company...........and the crying from the Clans would be legendary.

You seem to be assuming that Clans would be constantly bidding to lose.

And with regards to Battle Value, who decides what piece of equipment is worth much? More importantly, how correct are they going to be?

Or is the general idea to stack everything against the Clans, forcing no one to play them?

[Yokaiko]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

How much damage will 5 to 8 CERML do at 800 meters?

Assuming the IS can hold them on target, his 3 will do what, 27?

Now, multiply that by 4 or 5 as that's generally how many Crows are doing the shooting, and how many 3 ERLL IS mechs do you usually find coordinated and focus firing a target in an attack?

You are also ignoring that those ER-mlas are 6 heat a whack, a standard large IS llas 7

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

How much damage will 5 to 8 CERML do at 800 meters?

Assuming the IS can hold them on target, his 3 will do what, 27?

Now, multiply that by 4 or 5 as that's generally how many Crows are doing the shooting, and how many 3 ERLL IS mechs do you usually find coordinated and focus firing a target in an attack?

Are you saying that the Clans know how to coordinate, but the IS do not? The IS has much larger problems than "worse" equipment then.

[Nick86]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

So your solution is to tell the IS to take hotter and heavier weapons (slowing them down even more and certainly not brawling weapons) in order to attempt to overcome faster mechs with more lighter weapons? Riiiiiggghhhttt........

I think this guy got confused somewhere so I'll clear this up..

pwnface is right. If I'm against clans I try to get close and use their heat and hardpoints against them. IS mechs are actually faster on average than clans or at least have the option to be given the changeable engines. Also, what pwnface suggested was to use lasers etc and rightly pointed out the array of snipers the IS has. I could point out a list of brawlers but I'm not writing for the underhive here.
Because lasers/ppcs don't have ammo and all use the same heatsinks they are a viable option and one that people have been using to great effect in mwo.

The only fill PP FLD weapon the clans have is gauss which only their Dire Wolf can boat well. Their Ppcs spread damage as do their LBX and even ACs through burst fire. If you're stationary for the full 1.5 second burn time for their Er Large Lasers then you're not worthy.

There's no ELO shield in CW.. remember that.

[R Razor]

Yokaiko, on 02 January 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

You are also ignoring that those ER-mlas are 6 heat a whack, a standard large IS llas 7

The standard IS LL isn't getting buffed to a range of 900 or so as the other guy stated, the ERLL is..........so invalid point on your part.


As for you Mystere, I realize you're one of the "early adopters" of Clan mechs and have a vested interest in seeing your advantages maintained but I'm sure there are some 50lb brain guys out there somewhere that PGI could pay to figure out a BPV system........and by it's nature it would favor neither Clan nor IS, so please save your passive aggressive ignorance for another thread.

Nick86, on 02 January 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

I think this guy got confused somewhere so I'll clear this up..

IS mechs are actually faster on average than clans

And that thing you just saw leaping off your back was a little something called credibility................you have zero if you think this is the case (with the exception of the light mech class which generally isn't running around with more than 1 or 2 ERLL)

Edited by R Razor, 02 January 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Nick86]

pwnface, on 02 January 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

It takes more skill to operate clan mechs because it is harder to manage heat? What a load of **** !! The heat mechanic is exactly the same for IS and clan mechs, and heat management comes down to having a good build and watching your heat meter carefully no matter what mech you pilot.

I defended pwnface's opinion in a previous reply but I disagree here.. clan mechs do have a harder time with heat because they are skewed towards boating lasers given the burst fire mechanics of their ACs and locked heatsinks and jumpjets. I wouldn't say IS mechs are noob but Clan mechs have been deliberately made to require skill. PGI themselves have said this.

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

As for you Mystere, I realize you're one of the "early adopters" of Clan mechs and have a vested interest in seeing your advantages maintained but I'm sure there are some 50lb brain guys out there somewhere that PGI could pay to figure out a BPV system........and by it's nature it would favor neither Clan nor IS, so please save your passive aggressive ignorance for another thread.

So, you have no answer and thus resort to an ad hominen. Thank you for revealing yourself to everyone.

Edited by Mystere, 02 January 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[pwnface]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

How much damage will 5 to 8 CERML do at 800 meters?

Assuming the IS can hold them on target, his 3 will do what, 27?

Now, multiply that by 4 or 5 as that's generally how many Crows are doing the shooting, and how many 3 ERLL IS mechs do you usually find coordinated and focus firing a target in an attack?

For the sake of argument, lets assume a clan mech is running 6x C-ERML since that is where ghost heat starts.

6x7 = 42 damage at optimal range of 455m
At 800m range, 1 C-ERML does roughly 1.75 damage.
6x1.75 = 10 damage.

Conclusion:
6 x C-ERML does 10.5 damage at 800m

3x ERLL does 27 damage at 827m/911m
4x ERLL does 36 damage at 827m/911m

If you are going to bring the ability for a team to focus fire into the argument then you are completely skewing the circumstances and math. There is no reason you can't have an equal number of IS mechs focusing fire compared to clan mechs. The fact that many PUG Inner Sphere pilots don't run optimized builds is a coordination problem and NOT a problem with balance in technology between IS and Clans.

That's like a 4 flamer Jenner running around getting owned by everything else on the field crying about clan tech OP.
That's just silly.

[R Razor]

Mystere, on 02 January 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

So, you have no answer and thus resort to an ad hominen. Thank you for revealing yourself to everyone.

Nothing adhominen about that at all amigo, just stating a fact..........you have a vested interest in maintaining what you perceive to be your advantages in your Clan mechs.......you have also crowed in other threads about how you waited for Clans to be released as those are what you wanted to play. I'm sorry if stating what appears to a reasonable person to be a fact offends you in some way but that's just how it is.

[pwnface]

Nick86, on 02 January 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

I defended pwnface's opinion in a previous reply but I disagree here.. clan mechs do have a harder time with heat because they are skewed towards boating lasers given the burst fire mechanics of their ACs and locked heatsinks and jumpjets. I wouldn't say IS mechs are noob but Clan mechs have been deliberately made to require skill. PGI themselves have said this.

I don't disagree that clan mechs optimal builds tend to generate more heat, but "heat management" as a skill and/or mechanic is exactly the same between IS and clan mechs. It isn't any harder to read the heat meter on a clan mech compared to an IS mech. You can easily build a high alpha / high heat mech with inner sphere tech, but most people opt for a more balanced approach.

[Nick86]

R Razor, on 02 January 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

And that thing you just saw leaping off your back was a little something called credibility................you have zero if you think this is the case (with the exception of the light mech class which generally isn't running around with more than 1 or 2 ERLL)

Please do me the courtesy of quoting me properly. I did say that on average IS mechs were faster. This is true. Yes the Lights are partly responsible for that but also the mediums could well be especially with Endo/Ferro (which is LOCKED) on some clan mechs and also their Dire Wolves can't do more than 53.5kph. So my credibility is fine thanks. Also, I like to run my Boars Head with 4 Er Large Lasers doing 71kph (xl 400 - risky but a lot of fun and can still beat 55kph with std engine).

[R Razor]

pwnface, on 02 January 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

For the sake of argument, lets assume a clan mech is running 6x C-ERML since that is where ghost heat starts.

6x7 = 42 damage at optimal range of 455m
At 800m range, 1 C-ERML does roughly 1.75 damage.
6x1.75 = 10 damage.

Conclusion:
6 x C-ERML does 10.5 damage at 800m

3x ERLL does 27 damage at 827m/911m
4x ERLL does 36 damage at 827m/911m

If you are going to bring the ability for a team to focus fire into the argument then you are completely skewing the circumstances and math. There is no reason you can't have an equal number of IS mechs focusing fire compared to clan mechs. The fact that many PUG Inner Sphere pilots don't run optimized builds is a coordination problem and NOT a problem with balance in technology between IS and Clans.

That's like a 4 flamer Jenner running around getting owned by everything else on the field crying about clan tech OP.
That's just silly.

DPS? Range Module for the Clanner?

And yeah, it is much easier for the defender to focus fire than it is the attacker given that the attacker is (rightfully so) more concerned about getting to a fixed point to eliminate a single objective.

How quickly can the CERML fire compared to the ISERLL......and since you want to use Ghost Heat limitations, that's 2 IS ERLL not 3 or 4 so reduce your numbers by 9..........it's now 18 VS 10 damage...........so again, cooldown time for the IS ERLL vs the CERML becomes another factor.

Nick86, on 02 January 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Please do me the courtesy of quoting me properly. I did say that on average IS mechs were faster. This is true. Yes the Lights are partly responsible for that but also the mediums could well be especially with Endo/Ferro (which is LOCKED) on some clan mechs and also their Dire Wolves can't do more than 53.5kph. So my credibility is fine thanks. Also, I like to run my Boars Head with 4 Er Large Lasers doing 71kph (xl 400 - risky but a lot of fun and can still beat 55kph with std engine).

I pulled the quote DIRECTLY out of your post.............and not even on average are "most" IS mechs (again, aside from the light mech class) faster than their clan counterparts. Wrong is wrong whether you like it or not.

You running around in an XL equipped Atlas does not prove anything and is irrelevant to this conversation.