1123 replies to this topic

[MarineTech]

Navid A1, on 11 January 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

Look what i found in this thread:

I didn't think counting forum pages and eating popcorn was a job.

[Karl Streiger]

EvilCow, on 12 January 2015 - 12:12 AM, said:

Some of us were able to tell 3 years ago, paranormal abilities I think.

And while i would like to have a kind of HPs - simple because it looks more aesthetic and would prevent us from having toothpick AC 20s - it would have only delayed things.

Take for example the ability of JaegerMech or Catapult to have dual AC 20s. - with HP restrictions not possible.
Well we would have a Tsunami of tears - with the King Crab beeing called Pay to Win - because its ability to have both - and no Ghost Heat.
Or the multi PPC Meta - would have been great to have the Awesome being the only Mech able to have 3 PPCs - and final with the Warhawk there would have been a Mech able to have 4.
And considering the crys for uselessness of the PPC - during Closed Beta - I'm sure the ERPPC would have had about 13 heat - when the Clan Wave 1 would have hit MWO.

OK - read like Ghost Heat / Heatscale propaganda -and this is not true - i still have the opinion that the same could had been achieved with a more simple and transparent system

Edited by Karl Streiger, 12 January 2015 - 03:28 AM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

If you are saying the mechlab is out a bad idea then yes.

[Widowmaker1981]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 12 January 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

If you are saying the mechlab is out a bad idea then yes.

So youd prefer to be playing stock mechs with no customisation only?

Most of us would not prefer that.

Also: Boating weapons is more efficient usually - because K.I.S.S. is a thing, easier to control (i.e. fewer weapon groups) will be more reliable regardless of player skill. If you prevent customisation, guess what happens? The only/most viable mechs are the ones which come as 'boats' stock (for example the WHK-Prime). Why is that better? All i see is the same game happening with different chassis, and less variety.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Just made my 4th 1000+ damage round in this.
Stuck ERPPC cooldown module in it for LOLs.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0455290b122b52b

I like having PPC velocity where the 9s puts em, wish all PPC's would just adopt to this speed, but holy crap this thing can pour out the PPC spam..
Too easy to just chainfire vomit like this..

[Almond Brown]

Krivvan, on 02 January 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Clan PPCs are not popular. I don't know what to say except that your experience is either wrong or an extreme outlier. No matter what you think about the ERPPC TDR being OP or not, there is definitely more IS PPC usage than Clan PPC usage.

Before the TDR quirks, the erPPC was a non-thing and the Clans ran them for their range, unmatched as it was for 15 points of damage (spread or otherwise)

Suddenly, the IS erPPC is a 10 point monster, killing all that dare stand in its way? Maybe that is the real issue. Keep moving...

Worry not. The TDR Nerfs are coming and coming hard. Then we can all discuss the next Meta weapon that gets deployed to the fields of MWO/CW. (then rinse and repeat ad nausea)

[Almond Brown]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:

It's a VTR and HGN nerf, in so much as they are hit far worse by it, then any other mech. Especially the HGN. The VTR at least, is still viable, but the poor Highlander is just bad.

Like the cause of every NERF, players abused the best things some Mechs had, Jump Sniping was seen to be as bad as the current 9S problem and got nerfed. The 9S will get nerfed. Just hope the noise level does not do to it what the Jump Sniping Noise did to the Victor and HGN via inevitable nerfs.

Bringing back the "Victorina" is not really an option.

Edited by Almond Brown, 12 January 2015 - 11:17 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Almond Brown, on 12 January 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Like the cause of every NERF, players abused the best things some Mechs had, Jump Sniping was seen to be as bad as the current 9S problem and got nerfed. The 9S will get nerfed. Just hope the noise level does not do to it what the Jump Sniping Noise did to the Victor and HGN via inevitable nerfs.

Bringing back the "Victorina" is not really an option.

actually, it would be quite doable.

The agility was never what broke the Victor. The masses, and the meta was how easy Jump Sniping was. Very few people brawled with them, and they were still out performed by jump snipers.


The simple expedient I proposed was cried against by the MEta crowd, but would have solved the issue.

Extend screen shake from the jump a full second after cutting thrust.
- It used a mechanic already in place, requiring a simple html modification
- It would allow Jump Sniping to still be possible, but one would have to jump higher, risking more exposure to do it
- One would need more JJS than the 1-2 used to ensure sufficient thrust for landing without legging yourself
- It would not have left all mechs stuck with hoverjets
- The Highlander would still be worthwhile
- The Victor would still be a legit tier 1 contender against TWs, which it really is not, atm.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

actually, it would be quite doable.

The agility was never what broke the Victor. The masses, and the meta was how easy Jump Sniping was. Very few people brawled with them, and they were still out performed by jump snipers.


The simple expedient I proposed was cried against by the MEta crowd, but would have solved the issue.

Extend screen shake from the jump a full second after cutting thrust.
- It used a mechanic already in place, requiring a simple html modification
- It would allow Jump Sniping to still be possible, but one would have to jump higher, risking more exposure to do it
- One would need more JJS than the 1-2 used to ensure sufficient thrust for landing without legging yourself
- It would not have left all mechs stuck with hoverjets
- The Highlander would still be worthwhile
- The Victor would still be a legit tier 1 contender against TWs, which it really is not, atm.

Well though out, and offered ideas, yet as per normal Paul over did it.... Often things just need a little fine tuning, not being beat into the ground...

That being said, could I have my cERPPC's back? You know the 15/15 ones, not these adjacent damage things, that try to be my cERPPC's?

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 12 January 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

Well though out, and offered ideas, yet as per normal Paul over did it.... Often things just need a little fine tuning, not being beat into the ground...

That being said, could I have my cERPPC's back? You know the 15/15 ones, not these adjacent damage things, that try to be my cERPPC's?

I think for them to ever return to that would require a 5 second cooldown. And would severely curtail quirk boosts (which I am ok with, if the weapons are balanced to begin with)

Honestly, I just want the projectile speed back, to me that would be worth more. These aren't heavy PPCs, or Snub Nosed PPCs, like this slow projectile would make sense for. they are "extended range" aka meant for long range.

All the damage in the world is pointless if the projectile is so slow that outside 600 meters you can literally dodge them.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

I think for them to ever return to that would require a 5 second cooldown. And would severely curtail quirk boosts (which I am ok with, if the weapons are balanced to begin with)

Honestly, I just want the projectile speed back, to me that would be worth more. These aren't heavy PPCs, or Snub Nosed PPCs, like this slow projectile would make sense for. they are "extended range" aka meant for long range.

All the damage in the world is pointless if the projectile is so slow that outside 600 meters you can literally dodge them.

True, but I still managed to tag a Wolveren at 1100m with my cERPPC's when I ran in a Timber Wolf D config, jsut had to understand how to lead the target with them...

I would also be happy if they got the damage, even through omni-pod quirks, like on the Hellbering Prime, Summoner Prime, Adder Prime and Timber Wolf D (if they ever do add those pods...)

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 12 January 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

True, but I still managed to tag a Wolveren at 1100m with my cERPPC's when I ran in a Timber Wolf D config, jsut had to understand how to lead the target with them...

I would also be happy if they got the damage, even through omni-pod quirks, like on the Hellbering Prime, Summoner Prime, Adder Prime and Timber Wolf D (if they ever do add those pods...)

that has as much to do with the enemy knowing how to vary his movement as your ability to lead, my friend. Against an observant, good mobile mech pilot? You might land 1 shot in 10, at that range. At which point it's more luck than skill.

[Ultimax]

Almond Brown, on 12 January 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

Like the cause of every NERF, players abused the best things some Mechs had, Jump Sniping was seen to be as bad as the current 9S problem and got nerfed. The 9S will get nerfed. Just hope the noise level does not do to it what the Jump Sniping Noise did to the Victor and HGN via inevitable nerfs.

Bringing back the "Victorina" is not really an option.

No.


Jump Sniping was the primary and sole viable competitive tactic in the former meta - it dominated every other TACTIC.


9S ER PPCs is not the sole primary and viable competitive tactic, there are counters to this ONE MECH.



Anyone who wants to claim the 9S is dominating the entire game, and stifling other methods of play can be my guest and embarass themselves with such a claim

[Gyrok]

Ultimatum X, on 12 January 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

No.


Jump Sniping was the primary and sole viable competitive tactic in the former meta - it dominated every other TACTIC.


9S ER PPCs is not the sole primary and viable competitive tactic, there are counters to this ONE MECH.



Anyone who wants to claim the 9S is dominating the entire game, and stifling other methods of play can be my guest and embarass themselves with such a claim

I welcome anyone to try to prove it has not influenced the meta game in any way...

Both arguments are extremist positions...reality is, the 9S has a bigger impact on meta right now than any other mech. It does not dominate to the exclusion of all other options, but even the 732 highlander back in the hey day of jump sniping did not dominate to the exclusion of everything else. You still saw other builds, other mechs, just the 732 was numerous like the 9S is now.

Like then, you now see entire 12 mans running 9S erppc boats in CW, then it was 12 man queue with 12 highlanders...how is it so different to imagine that mech having such a large impact, but think the TW is OP in the same breath?

EDIT: I realize you agree the TW is fine, but my point stands, many would say the 9S is fine, nerf the TW.

Edited by Gyrok, 12 January 2015 - 01:08 PM.

[Ultimax]

Gyrok, on 12 January 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

I welcome anyone to try to prove it has not influenced the meta game in any way...

I didn't say it didn't influence it, of course it has.

That's a good thing, because until the 9S and a few other long range quirked mechs, the clans completely dominated from mid to long range in CW.



What I said is it doesn't dominate the entire meta, it is counterable by other builds.

This was not the case with stand off Jump Sniping or BESM Jump Sniping.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 January 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

that has as much to do with the enemy knowing how to vary his movement as your ability to lead, my friend. Against an observant, good mobile mech pilot? You might land 1 shot in 10, at that range. At which point it's more luck than skill.

Very true, but as I have seen with MWO, the vast majority of the pilots must be poorly scripted AI's....

A.I.’s that can use poor English with the odd number used in place of a letter, to whine about getting beaten when they are “Super ELO elite…”

Mind you, since I started dropping with guys and gals of CGBI, I see a lot less of those…

[topgun505]

I dunno Ultimatum. I know of multiple units whos drop decks in CW include pretty much one entire wave of 9S (if not 2 full waves of them) And I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were other units that did it as well.

Not saying one way or the other if they are OP or not but considering how many you do see used it does throw up a red flag.

[Ultimax]

topgun505, on 12 January 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

I dunno Ultimatum. I know of multiple units whos drop decks in CW include pretty much one entire wave of 9S (if not 2 full waves of them) And I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were other units that did it as well.

Not saying one way or the other if they are OP or not but considering how many you do see used it does throw up a red flag.

Yes, and how many clan units drop in full waves of Stormcrows or Timberwolves?

Both sides will have their top tier go-to decks, this will always be the case due to restrictions.



Also, and this gets left out all the time.

We have TWO maps for CW. Two.


One of them is bad for 9S ER PPCs because it is a hot map, with convoluted approach lanes.


The other is basically custom design for long range energy snipers, and you can basically see the enemy team almost to their spawns...



Lastly, it's not dominating the Solo & Group queue from what I've seen - it shows up, it's useful but it's not even remotely as common as it is in CW.

[Harathan]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 January 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

So youd prefer to be playing stock mechs with no customisation only?

Most of us would not prefer that.

So you're speaking for most of us now? Good to know. I'll be sure to ask you what my opinion is, in future.

Here, I can make assumptions about what loads of other people prefer too:

Most of us would prefer stock mechs only.

See what I did there?

Edited by Harathan, 12 January 2015 - 01:49 PM.

[Metus regem]

Harathan, on 12 January 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

So you're speaking for most of us now? Good to know. I'll be sure to ask you what my opinion is, in future.

He used most, not all, big difference...

Ultimatum X, on 12 January 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Lastly, it's not dominating the Solo & Group queue from what I've seen - it shows up, it's useful but it's not even remotely as common as it is in CW.

I know that when I do group drops, when someone spots a 9S, it becomes the priority target for us.