1123 replies to this topic

[Koniks]

Wildstreak, on 08 January 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

I would suggest anyone with a 5SS try the same build the 9S' use, 5SS has the same Energy points minus 1 in the arm and lower quirks, comparing the 2 would give people guessing any reductions a better idea on what they like. Heat bonus is worse but cooldown is better though close and you trade velocity buff for a range buff.

Lack of a velocity quirk makes any comparison useless.

[Wildstreak]

Nope.

[Mcgral18]

Wildstreak, on 09 January 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Nope.

The extra range is very limited against the extended range. You tend not to use it past a KM anyways.

35% less heat is much more important, which is why people use it. It would be ERLLs on the 5SS that are used if the 9S is shafted too far.

For long range, that is.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 January 2015 - 09:50 PM.

[pwnface]

There is actually a bug with TDR-5SS range quirk at the moment. The optimal range is increased to 911m with module but the maximum range only reaches to 1485m. The range quirk is ONLY applying to the optimal range and not the max range. I tested in the training grounds when I noticed my lasers not registering on Boreal. I'd put up a video but I'm not on my gaming desktop at the moment. If anyone would do us a public service and record a video of the range bug it would bring a lot of attention to it. I'm also curious if the TDR-5SS is the only mech to have this bug or if ALL quirked mechs aren't getting additional max range.

[Koniks]

Wildstreak, on 09 January 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Nope.

TDR-9S ERPPC velocity: on par with an AC5.
TDR-5SS ERPPC velocity: on par with an AC10.

Have you tried hitting moving targets with an AC10 at 700m+?

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Mizeur, on 09 January 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

TDR-9S ERPPC velocity: on par with an AC5.
TDR-5SS ERPPC velocity: on par with an AC10.

Have you tried hitting moving targets with an AC10 at 700m+?

without reading the prior 45 pages, I can only say that 700m is almost twice the optimal range of an AC10, if you actually hit with it at 700+, then you are a futhermucking ninja of the first order.

[Kuritaclan]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 09 January 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

without reading the prior 45 pages, I can only say that 700m is almost twice the optimal range of an AC10, if you actually hit with it at 700+, then you are a futhermucking ninja of the first order.

Well than clan er ppcs sucks nuts, if hitting with AC10 speed @700+ needs the skill of a "futhermucking ninja of the first order". xD

[pwnface]

For LONG range sniping 900m+ nothing is better than TDR-5SS with 4xERLL.

[Kuritaclan]

pwnface, on 09 January 2015 - 11:08 PM, said:

For LONG range sniping 900m+ nothing is better than TDR-5SS with 4xERLL.

Well it is a TDR so within the topic. Idk if they are that impressiv. Thought 5ss is more a brawl mpl plattform. But if it works for you, stick to it.

And on a footnote: The end is coming soon. 50 pages.

[pwnface]

Kuritaclan, on 09 January 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

Well it is a TDR so within the topic. Idk if they are that impressiv. Thought 5ss is more a brawl mpl plattform. But if it works for you, stick to it.

And on a footnote: The end is coming soon. 50 pages.

Optimal range 911m no projectile time 36 alpha. For pure sniping 5SS is superior. TDR9S is better for mixed ranges though.

[Wildstreak]

Still Nope.

A few people missed what I said.
For those wanting 9S changes, they are guessing. With the 5SS doing the same build with lower quirks, they can clarify better what they desire through comparison.

Kuritaclan, on 09 January 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

Well it is a TDR so within the topic. Idk if they are that impressiv. Thought 5ss is more a brawl mpl plattform. But if it works for you, stick to it.

And on a footnote: The end is coming soon. 50 pages.

Actually, no. It looks like a MPL platform because you see a quirk specifically for MPLs so think MPLs are the best.

Yes MPLs get a boost, 25% range boost that stacks with the 25% Energy range boost for a total of 50%.
5SS MPL range 300m (should be), max range 660m.

But that's it. Every other benefit the MPL gets, other Energy gets too. Take the ML.
5SS ML range (25%) 337.5m, max range 675m.

Both MPL & ML get 15% heat reduction, both cost 4 heat so they get the same.

Both get a 15% cooldown reduction, both have a cooldown of 3 so that is the same.

Really, the 5SS did nothing to change the usual comparison between MLs & MPLs, it just looks that way so it is still personal preference.

Lack of the 9S ERPPC velocity quirk is compensated by how much you lead the target based on range thus not a big deal.

[Koniks]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 09 January 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

without reading the prior 45 pages, I can only say that 700m is almost twice the optimal range of an AC10, if you actually hit with it at 700+, then you are a futhermucking ninja of the first order.

Max range is 900. You can still hit out to that range, though obviously it's a waste of ammo and heat. And max range used to be 3x, not 2x optimal range.

Point is, the unquirked ERPPC is about as difficult to use at that range as the AC10, regardless of damage.

[TheSteelRhino]

Navid A1, on 08 January 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

Care to explain what is that great cost you speak of?
Its not heat...is it?...no it can't be... .


Do you play the game in CW?
There are hours of live videos there.


I don't remember any clans being around when 6 PPC stalkers were having a party. Tell me why there is no 6 PPC stalkers these days?...
It's not about the clans. That 1 variant is hugely over-quirked against anything. As was the 6 PPC stalker.

And i'm not even mentioning broken HSR on IS lights...you know.. those little things that soak more damage than an atlas and move above 150 km/h.


These people. And when we ask for buffs for adders, novas, summoners, Ice ferrets and gargoyles... the response is no. why?... because clans man.... claaannsss... you hear me?... clans....

Give the 85 ton warhawk the same quirks as the 9S then we will see who's gonna be laughing. Seriously... based on your logic a warhawk with 30% (nah...not even 50%) ERPPC heat reduction would be "fine".

And I don't see 6 ER PPC Tbolts either?
If other mechs get better quirks you will more likely see more variety in IS builds.

[Knightcrawler]

For those who don't know, the Thunderbolt isn't just good because its ERPPCs run insanely cool. The Thunderbolt's 9S build arms have no crucial components in them at all, so they're the best shields possible and anyone but good players will still target them anyways. The left and right torsos have very boosted internals, which further protects its only important components. Perhaps more important, a number of ER PPC quirks stack. So their cooldown time is reduced by 25%, giving you more attack options (*especially* over Clan mechs which have to stay in the open for longer to use their weapons effectively), increasing your DPS by up to 1/4 (which is serious beans) since the attack itself has no duration, it can support that higher ROF with its low heat generation, and its projectiles are faster which makes them easier to hit with. The modules go great with it, because you run cool enough to take advantage of their cooldown buff (which is better than a laser buff because - again - the attack itself has no duration). It's also a cheap build and even on sale right now.

No, the 3 ERPPC 9S is not the only great build. I've noticed some large laser builds that are far better than any large laser Clan build. Not quite as good as the ERPPC build, but close. There are a few potentially broken builds out there. There's a Cicada (already one of the better light IS units) with very buffs very similar to what the 9S got. If anyone tells you that the 3 ERPPC build is the only "broken" build, I'd argue against that.

Joseph Mallan, on 10 January 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

Because ONE Inner Sphere Mech is giving Clanners resistance? Wow. Just Wow!

Uh, you can load up an IS drop with 24 or 36 ThunderBolts. And that is what happens. It's hardly "one mech." If any mech is brokenly powerful, it'll be every mech you see on the battlefield.

Purger of Man, on 02 January 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

From my personal experience, the ice ferret with 2 ER Large Lasers with armor only stacked on the left side is a good counter to these er ppc thunderbolts, because with it's speed, and no travel time in it's projectiles because lasers are instantaneous, it makes for the perfect counter to these mechs in my opinion in Community Warfare and perhaps pug matches, haven't personally tested in in pug land, but it's sure is a good first drop in CW.

Fast mechs with ER Large Lasers equipped is a good counter for a while, but a single hit from a Thunderbolt will ruin that mech. I've got my Kit Fox set up with max armor right now, but the only components that aren't instantly destroyed by 3 TBolt ERPPCs are the torso segments, and they're down to red. Think about how many laser salvos you have to get in, while the enemy only needs one hit. There also isn't enough room pretty much anywhere to have 12 players using a strategy like this. Plus the Ice Ferret is only available for $$$, so even if it was the exception, it wouldn't matter to most players.

Anyway PGI keeps on "balancing" IS to "match" the Clans. How many times have they done that? Like three times? Add to that the incredible price of getting most Clan mechs, and most new players can't run Clan mechs even if they want to. That gives the IS more players. But since the IS and Clan tech are already "balanced" and the matches are 12v12, the IS having more players unbalances things on a strategic level.

Don't take that the wrong way. There are lots of great IS players out there. And many organized units did really well against us before these builds came into prevalence. And there are a few organized IS players not abusing these builds that STILL do pretty well. Also, these builds are certainly not the only factor turning the game around. All of the comp units went to IS at once, and when a few of them were on the Clan side, they were - except the first few weeks - just trying to cause trouble instead of actually helping the faction they joined. And of course, the IS has more pugs due to many factors.

Well, whatever. It's up to PGI to do something about it. Or not. We'll keep trying to do better. But in the end... there are other games I can play.

Edited by Knightcrawler, 10 January 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Knightcrawler, on 10 January 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

There are a few potentially broken builds out there. There's a Cicada (already one of the better light IS units) with very buffs very similar to what the 9S got.

Which Cicada? Most do not have strong quirks, only the 3C but with only 1 Energy point, it is not the same as the TDR-9S.
That doesn't mean the 9S should be fine because it is not, simply I don't see where any Cicada is broke.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

49 pages and people cant get the too simple idea that its not the mech... its the pin point damage and the mech lab being a free for all.

1 CHANGE ALL PPC's to a beam... 3 secs duration
2 change all ac's to a stream
3. Add a size slot to all weapon locations... ie if it had a med laser it is a medium slot. Med Pulse or med laser only. if it had a Large laser its a LARGE SLOT... ER large laser, ppc, er ppc, large laser, LRG pulse laser and so on. other wise MWO will continue this pretty laughable on nozs this mech is loz. BS we see every few freaking weeks.

[kapusta11]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 11 January 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

49 pages and people cant get the too simple idea that its not the mech... its the pin point damage and the mech lab being a free for all.

1 CHANGE ALL PPC's to a beam... 3 secs duration
2 change all ac's to a stream
3. Add a size slot to all weapon locations... ie if it had a med laser it is a medium slot. Med Pulse or med laser only. if it had a Large laser its a LARGE SLOT... ER large laser, ppc, er ppc, large laser, LRG pulse laser and so on. other wise MWO will continue this pretty laughable on nozs this mech is loz. BS we see every few freaking weeks.

No thanks, we already have lasers.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

oh I see lets just keep doing the nerf buff crap... that's a much better idea. WTF

[FupDup]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 11 January 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

oh I see lets just keep doing the nerf buff crap...that's a much better idea. WTF

I'm pretty sure that making PPCs and IS ACs into streams is a nerf.

[Koniks]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 11 January 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

49 pages and people cant get the too simple idea that its not the mech... its the pin point damage and the mech lab being a free for all.

1 CHANGE ALL PPC's to a beam... 3 secs duration
2 change all ac's to a stream
3. Add a size slot to all weapon locations... ie if it had a med laser it is a medium slot. Med Pulse or med laser only. if it had a Large laser its a LARGE SLOT... ER large laser, ppc, er ppc, large laser, LRG pulse laser and so on. other wise MWO will continue this pretty laughable on nozs this mech is loz. BS we see every few freaking weeks.

It's not all PPCs. It's not all ERPPCs. They nerfed those into the ground already with the velocity reduction, which is why no one uses them except on quirked mechs.

No one's complaining about all IS ACs. There hasn't even been much QQ over the Wolverine and Dragon AC5 cooldowns.

Your response is overboard at best.