1123 replies to this topic

[LowSubmarino]

Ultimatum X, on 12 January 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Yes, and how many clan units drop in full waves of Stormcrows or Timberwolves?

Both sides will have their top tier go-to decks, this will always be the case due to restrictions.



Also, and this gets left out all the time.

We have TWO maps for CW. Two.


One of them is bad for 9S ER PPCs because it is a hot map, with convoluted approach lanes.


The other is basically custom design for long range energy snipers, and you can basically see the enemy team almost to their spawns...



Lastly, it's not dominating the Solo & Group queue from what I've seen - it shows up, it's useful but it's not even remotely as common as it is in CW.

Exactly. And you see this simply because the 9s is not op hehe.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

I said LIMIT THE MECH LAB NOT REMOVE IT... reading for the win. What is unbelievable there are still people in this thread who don't get that the weapon, the quirks and the mech ARENT THE PROBLEM. I predict the next nerf scream from the mass of 2 dimensional thinkers here will be the firestarter, then the banshee. Its like a hydra.. cut off one head 2 take its place. We shouldn't be running around in boats. BOATS ARE BAD, boring and it makes MWO feel more CoD than stompie robots. How this escapes you is beyond me.

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 12 January 2015 - 08:26 PM.

[Serpieri]

The Player's are the problem but PGI is also at fault for allowing such flexibility. And PGI keeps trying to fix by applying fix after fix after fix and all they accomplish is creating more problem. It's time to start limiting hard points and allow each mech to fulfill the role it was built for - instead of letting players rip them apart and making several of them obsolete in the process.

Edited by Serpieri, 12 January 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[eleazr]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 12 January 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

What is unbelievable there are still people in this thread who don't get that the weapon, the quirks and the mech ARENT THE PROBLEM. ... BOATS ARE BAD, boring and it makes MWO feel more CoD than stompie robots. How this escapes you is beyond me.

Boats have always been around for two reasons:
1 Boats are simpler to operate.
2 Some weapon systems require a great deal of weight to be effective (IS LRMS), so your options are boat or go home.

Now, PGI has added a third and VERY powerful reason to boat:
3 Strong, single weapon quirks.

Flexibility is probably the PRIMARY reason i have always liked the Mech Warrior franchise - I love tinkering. This is why I despise ghost heat, single weapon quirks, and clan mechs with locked parts. (I don't run clans outside of the competitive scene.) With all of these, PGI (and you nerf warriors), are arbitrarily saying: thou shalt build thy mech like this ___. Now you think it's a good idea to bind up the meh lab??

Geeze... what would we do without nerf warriors?

[Brut4ce]

Ripnfly, on 02 January 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Thunderbolts with ERPPCS only.

There is little to no varience in builds now. Its all ERPPCs on thunderbolts.

I would like to see a change to thunderbolts.This "Meta" is not enjoyable especially in PUG matches.


You have said you didnt want players boating long range weapons especially PPCs yet this is what players are currently doing. AGAIN

Double heat quircks are far to powerful.


In CW the problem is even worse with most cordinated groups only droping thunderboltz.

I also see more Awsome Q's daily with 4 ppc builds.

[Sp4rtan]

Ripnfly, on 02 January 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Thunderbolts with ERPPCS only.

There is little to no varience in builds now. Its all ERPPCs on thunderbolts.

I would like to see a change to thunderbolts.This "Meta" is not enjoyable especially in PUG matches.


You have said you didnt want players boating long range weapons especially PPCs yet this is what players are currently doing. AGAIN

Double heat quircks are far to powerful.


In CW the problem is even worse with most cordinated groups only droping thunderboltz.

I also see more Awsome Q's daily with 4 ppc builds.

[Railgun05]

Ripnfly, on 02 January 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Thunderbolts with ERPPCS only.

There is little to no varience in builds now. Its all ERPPCs on thunderbolts.

I would like to see a change to thunderbolts.This "Meta" is not enjoyable especially in PUG matches.


You have said you didnt want players boating long range weapons especially PPCs yet this is what players are currently doing. AGAIN

Double heat quircks are far to powerful.


In CW the problem is even worse with most cordinated groups only droping thunderboltz.

I also see more Awsome Q's daily with 4 ppc builds.

Clan Drop Deck:

SCR/SCR/SCR/TBR

Cry more.

[Metus regem]

Railgun05, on 13 January 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Clan Drop Deck:

SCR/SCR/SCR/TBR

Cry more.

HBR/HRB/TBR/ADR, loads of fun

[Mcgral18]

Railgun05, on 13 January 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Clan Drop Deck:

SCR/SCR/SCR/TBR

Cry more.

Shame we don't have more than two viable robots, though.

At least they are top tier, with two that follow behind that. Rest mostly fall under mediocre, and fall short of their IS counterparts in general.


Yet, blanket nerfs were applied to them, meaning we can only only take the top tier choices, or take terribad robots.

Edited by Mcgral18, 13 January 2015 - 09:00 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 13 January 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

HBR/HRB/TBR/ADR, loads of fun

Gargoyle Prime/Summoner Prime/Viper Alpha/Mist Lynx Bravo

Now that would be my idea of fun. Except PGI's doubled armor ensures none of those are effective without massive quirks.

[LowSubmarino]

If you think the 9s is op, then let a good 9s pilot fight a one on one vs a good tbr pilot. Do 20 games. You will realize that the 9s will hardly ever win but lose almost all the time if not every single game. It gets owned. Badly owned. It stands far below the timberwolf. A good double gauss jager has a very good chance to kill the 9s. A decent whale or crab pilot (unless they boat acs) can easily own the 9s. A stalker with a sniper build? Lets say the 3f with 4 erlls? Poor 9s hehe. A good hunchback that gets into brawling distance? Say bye bye to your 9s. Damn, the list is endless.


And even with massive quirks it can only alpha 2 times to then have to wait a considerable time to alpha again. Which is why, in pug games, you dont see many 9s pilots getting 600 + dmg and several kills. You see them because there actually are good pilots but you will see most of the pilots getting mediocre scores at best.

And that is because you need to fire nonstop, whenever you can squeeze out a single erppc, and you need to hit with your shots. Only then can you get scores that a whale, a timberwolf, a firestarter, a crab, a jager, a hunchback, a dragon (and many more), can get while half asleep.

So once again. Nerf the 9s and it will vanish. Even a 10 % heat nerf is too much. It will become überhard to reach higher scores with that mech. Even now it comes with many shortcomings for the ability to deal 30 pinpoint dmg in two alphas. It sux badly in a brawl, it requires excellent aim, it loses almost all its firepower when the giant right st dies and it will lose to the jjwalking timberwolf. Every time. Unless the pilot sux.

I know that cause I have owned them badly with my timberwolf. Again and again. Not cause im so very good, but because tapping my jjs is a simple thing to do. Anybody can do that. Combine that with half decent aim and the tbrs awesome armor and firepower and you have a smoking pile of 9s fragments hehe. Thats how it is ppl.

Ive tested the 9s for a long time now and after so many games that is my conclusion.

And no, im no fan boy. I only enjoyed the 9s cause I never ever used ppcs after the speed nerf. Never. They were some of the worst weapons in the game. Now they could be used and it was fun to see a different kind of weapon for once. Im kinda bored with the 9s now though.

I play my other mechs again. Last time I played it like 3 days ago i think. So i dont even care if they nerf it or not. But a nerf is unwarranted. It allows the use of erppcs, gives you pin point dmg, but requires perfect aim and playstyle to get 500 + dmg and and exceptionally talented player to break the 1000 dmg marker. It isnt one of the main dmg dealers in a team of equally skilled players.

I have to say though my conclusion comes from non-cw maps. Wish I could whitness its opness in cw but cw is unplayable for me.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

Gargoyle Prime/Summoner Prime/Viper Alpha/Mist Lynx Bravo

Now that would be my idea of fun. Except PGI's doubled armor ensures none of those are effective without massive quirks.

Well if we are going to count units that are not in MWO... but I need to ask, when you say Viper, do you mean:

http://www.sarna.net...%28Dragonfly%29

or

http://www.sarna.net...hon_%28Viper%29

I ask as depending on whom you talk to they are both called Viper's....

As for me, by ideal drop deck, if I had everything I could want:

Warhammer IIC
Hellbringer Prime
Coyotl Prime (or A)
Cougar Prime

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 13 January 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Well if we are going to count units that are not in MWO... but I need to ask, when you say Viper, do you mean:

http://www.sarna.net...%28Dragonfly%29

or

http://www.sarna.net...hon_%28Viper%29

I ask as depending on whom you talk to they are both called Viper's....

As for me, by ideal drop deck, if I had everything I could want:

Warhammer IIC
Hellbringer Prime
Coyotl Prime (or A)
Cougar Prime

I mean Viper, not the one the IS Surats call Viper.
And while the Viper is not here yet, I think it safe to assume it will be in the next wave, more than likely. Though it will pprobablyhave jumbo legs.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 January 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 12 January 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

I said LIMIT THE MECH LAB NOT REMOVE IT... reading for the win. What is unbelievable there are still people in this thread who don't get that the weapon, the quirks and the mech ARENT THE PROBLEM. I predict the next nerf scream from the mass of 2 dimensional thinkers here will be the firestarter, then the banshee. Its like a hydra.. cut off one head 2 take its place. We shouldn't be running around in boats. BOATS ARE BAD, boring and it makes MWO feel more CoD than stompie robots. How this escapes you is beyond me.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong on multiple accounts:

1- Customization adds flavor to the game, it allows us to fine tune the mechs. I personally think there should be more of it.

2- Boats are fantastic. They are tactically sound platform. Follow logical thinking, and might not be the most important reason, but they are canon. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

3- This might be me guessing here, but you played a lot of TT, didn't you? You're still remembering BV matching, which cannot, and will not exist in this game. Since that's gone out the window, there is only one viable method of balancing mechs: Artificial adjustment of performance. That can be done through the introduction of an external variable, that can be modified without dramatically impacting the model of the mech, or it's core properties. The external variable (wisely chosen I might add) is quirks. Which allow for fine tuning of a mech's performance and standing to achieve greater balance with minimal intrusion.

I'm gonna say this in general, and I know many will disagree, but despite being a TT player, and a participant in Stock Mech events, stock mechs are not the same brand of fun as boats. I would venture to say that they actually suck. Whenever I play a stock mech, I always think "If only I could change this one part about it, that would improve this mech's performance so much". The mechlab has been one of the best things to happen to the Mechwarrior games in forever.

We also used to run all kinds of TT matches, and for the record, they were almost all universally done with custom mechs, if anyone had a tech 1 mech on the board, it HAD to have something special about it.

eleazr, on 13 January 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

3 Strong, single weapon quirks.

I think PGI needed to put single weapon quirks to have some distinction between the variants (if all the variants had varying buffs for all weapons, you'd still pick the optimal one out of the bunch, and do what's already being done)

[Mirumoto Izanami]

IraqiWalker, on 13 January 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

I'm gonna say this in general, and I know many will disagree, but despite being a TT player, and a participant in Stock Mech events, stock mechs are not the same brand of fun as boats. I would venture to say that they actually suck. Whenever I play a stock mech, I always think "If only I could change this one part about it, that would improve this mech's performance so much". The mechlab has been one of the best things to happen to the Mechwarrior games in forever.

We also used to run all kinds of TT matches, and for the record, they were almost all universally done with custom mechs, if anyone had a tech 1 mech on the board, it HAD to have something special about it.

The one major thing that makes playing stock mechs tolerable, if not enjoyable in TT, is missing from this game: melee.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

I mean Viper, not the one the IS Surats call Viper.
And while the Viper is not here yet, I think it safe to assume it will be in the next wave, more than likely. Though it will pprobablyhave jumbo legs.

A high probablitiy yes, I would prefer if they would look back and use the more obscure Coyotl rather than the Dragonfly...

I would like to see a pack containing:

PIranha
Coyotl
Ebbon Jaguar
Blood Asp (For the people that are hungery for it... I would rather something like the Kodiak, Stone Rhino or Wakazashi)

[IraqiWalker]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 13 January 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

The one major thing that makes playing stock mechs tolerable, if not enjoyable in TT, is missing from this game: melee.

-high fives- God if that was added. The mayhem would be devastating.

[Wildstreak]

Ultimatum X, on 12 January 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

We have TWO maps for CW. Two.


One of them is bad for 9S ER PPCs because it is a hot map, with convoluted approach lanes.


The other is basically custom design for long range energy snipers, and you can basically see the enemy team almost to their spawns...

I am sure the 9S fans know to adjust RoF for heat, not that hard in any Mech that also has to do it. Players learned to do it in the non-CW matches where you could drop on any map from the cold Alpine Peaks to the hot Terra Therma.

Serpieri, on 12 January 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

The Player's are the problem but PGI is also at fault for allowing such flexibility. And PGI keeps trying to fix by applying fix after fix after fix and all they accomplish is creating more problem. It's time to start limiting hard points and allow each mech to fulfill the role it was built for - instead of letting players rip them apart and making several of them obsolete in the process.

Well, FASA did open the floodgates to Hell when they allowed customizaton way back in the 1980s.

[Black Arachne]

It's pretty obvious - why take an Awesome when you can fit weapon package on a lighter mech? If you look at the mechs, you'll notice that certain weights were built to utilize certain loadouts. For example: using 3+ PPC's was only seen on 80T+ mechs and 3+ larger lasers were only seen on 70T+ mechs. Battletech did not have 6 PPC stalkers but that doesn't stop us from making these mechs and abusing them one way or another.

Edited by Black Arachne, 13 January 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

IraqiWalker.


No your being at best ambiguous worse straight up wrong.

1 a mech does not add "flavor". MWO is not a steak. The mechs have theme's already, hence their drawbacks and bonus.
2. Boats are for children who don't want a real MWO game but an I win button, I'm sure you wre a great fan of splat cats, and small laser hunchbacks... they add all kinds of "flavor"
3. I don't think you played the TT game. Why? Anyone who would try and bring the crap we see here in MWO wouldn't be allowed to play.