1123 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

have it on pretty good authority any Marik victories have nothing to do with your contributions, so, your point is?


drop more, especially against the more competitive IS teams, like 228. More spam than at a hawaiian buffet.

Maybe so, but there's always spam of just the top two or three Mechs. That will never go away. Nerf the TDR and another Mech will rise to the top to take its place.

[Bishop Steiner]

Almond Brown, on 02 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

So one side of the IS v IS match up doesn't have access to the TBolts? That is like saying the Clans are OP vs the Clans ffs. ;(

or maybe some of us don't want to see boring 24 thud-9s on the battlefield making the game look like a bloody tesla coil?

[Almond Brown]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

awfully hard to drop IS CW in them there Timberwolves for some reason.... when you figure out how, lemme know, will ya?

So this is a CW issue only? OK, sorry. Thought the OP was just griping about them in general terms. Carry on.

[Valdherre Tor]

We have are 9s and you have your timber and crow spams in CW, whats the big deal?

[Bishop Steiner]

Nightmare1, on 02 January 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

Maybe so, but there's always spam of just the top two or three Mechs. That will never go away. Nerf the TDR and another Mech will rise to the top to take its place.

You're not listening.

The Spam of 2-3 mechs, ain't nothing compared to the spam of 8-12 9S literally able to fill the sky nonstop because of how cool the ER PPC runs.

As you said, you haven't played it much.....wait til you do, then you will know what is being referenced here.

[Glory in the Highest]

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

"I am losing! Change it." - certain players

"OK, we'll change it." - PGI

"I am still losing. Change it until I can win." - the same certain players

[Bishop Steiner]

Valdherre Tor, on 02 January 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

We have are 9s and you have your timber and crow spams in CW, whats the big deal?

maybe actually read the thread. It should become apparent.

[Almond Brown]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

or maybe some of us don't want to see boring 24 thud-9s on the battlefield making the game look like a bloody tesla coil?

Please post a game screen with 24 Tbolts, all packed with PPC in 3's, please. Or are you waiting for that assumption to actually happen? The Clans pack way more PPC's in CW than IS from my play within. Maybe the IS is just catching on to the Clan good thing.

[Bishop Steiner]

Glory, on 02 January 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again.

"I am losing! Change it." - certain players

"OK, we'll change it." - PGI

"I am still losing. Change it until I can win." - the same certain players

SMH

Way to oversimplify things.

Let's ignore the brief span we had with no singularly pronounced meta and how nice it was to see people playing a variety of mechs and weapon loadouts......

[Golden Vulf]

El Bandito, on 02 January 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

Timberwolf is OP due to broken hitboxes + cheat-jumping as well as benefiting from every advantage the Clan tech affords it. The torsi hitboxes definitely need some rework.

None of my Timberwolves had jump jets until IS crybabies convinced PGI to lock them into the S torsos.

Last time I was getting shot at, I ended up getting hit. The attacks didn't magically transfer through me.

What are the advantages of clan tech? The ability to have your weapons cause 20% more heat than they are supposed to? The ability of our longest range weapon only doing 2/3rds of the damage it is supposed to. The ability to not be able to put ammo in legs because they are full of hard locked structure and armor slots? The ability to not drop engine size or to a standard engine? The ability to not have 50% energy weapon heat quirks? The ability to switch a 2 energy hard point arm for another 2 energy hard point arm? The ability to play through a stage of angry birds while waiting for all of your lrms to fire?

[Wolfwood592]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

SMH

Way to oversimplify things.

Let's ignore the brief span we had with no singularly pronounced meta and how nice it was to see people playing a variety of mechs and weapon loadouts......

Oversimplification on this topic is actually quite accurate.

If you are attempting to create a group of players who use a diverse list of mechs RATHER than play whatever is META to win. You are being unrealistic and it shows.

[Glory in the Highest]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

SMH

Way to oversimplify things.

Let's ignore the brief span we had with no singularly pronounced meta and how nice it was to see people playing a variety of mechs and weapon loadouts......

Oversimplify? It really is that simple. There's always a best thing, there always will be a best thing. The people who win will be the people who use the best thing the best way.

Edited by Glory, 02 January 2015 - 08:11 AM.

[Nightmare1]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 January 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

You're not listening.

The Spam of 2-3 mechs, ain't nothing compared to the spam of 8-12 9S literally able to fill the sky nonstop because of how cool the ER PPC runs.

As you said, you haven't played it much.....wait til you do, then you will know what is being referenced here.

I suppose I'll see then. If the spam is really that bad, then changing the TDR quirks seems appropriate. That being said, I'd like to see ballistic quirks on it anyways. ERPPCs on a TDR that has ballistic options is sad. That's why I still run mine with 2 AC/5s and 6 MLs. It's more fun that way.

As far as spam goes, generally speaking, we'll never be rid of it.

[Krivvan]

Nightmare1, on 02 January 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

Maybe so, but there's always spam of just the top two or three Mechs. That will never go away. Nerf the TDR and another Mech will rise to the top to take its place.

That's why when you nerf, you don't nerf way too far. The Highlander and Victor should only have been nerfed to the point where they're still usable and very good. As it is, they're extinct.

[AlmightyAeng]

Farix, on 02 January 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

Then the solution is to fix the quirks on the other mechs to encourage diversity. But as of now, the Thunderbolt 9S is the only mech that can stand on equal ground with the hords of Stormcrows and Timberwolfs.

Another factor is the lack of viability of ammo based mechs in CW. Fix that problem, and you will definitly see more Jaggermechs and Cataphracts in CW.

I have to wonder at the ELO of people who say things like that. The 9S is the only one that stands toe-to-toe? Really? If it's the ONLY mech you can beat them with you may want to step back and ask yourself why. Pffffft...Davions.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 02 January 2015 - 08:15 AM.

[Krivvan]

Almond Brown, on 02 January 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

The Clans pack way more PPC's in CW than IS from my play within.

Clan PPCs are not popular. I don't know what to say except that your experience is either wrong or an extreme outlier. No matter what you think about the ERPPC TDR being OP or not, there is definitely more IS PPC usage than Clan PPC usage.

[Bishop Steiner]

Glory, on 02 January 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Oversimplify? It really is that simple. There's always a best thing, there always will be a best thing. The people who win will be the people who use the best thing the best way.

Wolfwood592, on 02 January 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Oversimplification on this topic is actually quite accurate.



If you are attempting to create a group of players who use a diverse list of mechs RATHER than play whatever is META to win. You are being unrealistic and it shows.

No, I'm not.



There will always be metas. Every game has them. A well balanced game, those metas are razor thin edges only really seen and maximized by the top tier comp levels. Not blatant, trainwreck metas like MWO goes through. One build one weapon metas across the entire game, is not healthy, and not mandatory.



As I said, previous to quirkening 2.0 (for a short period, post quirkening 1.0), the meta in MWO was very very nebulous, outside of the top tier teams facing top tier teams, and from what I saw there, even then there was more variety. The TW was still broken, something Russ seems unwilling to admit, but beyond that, a lot more variety. And even the TW wasn't dominating every match. Not like Dragonslayers did in the Poptart days.



Now we are back to one mech, one weapon, all the time.



To be frank, only an idiot think that is how a game should be balanced or played.

[STEF_]

I'm not seeing that huge amount of er-ppc thunderbolts in game.

Anyway, I don't like qq threads.

[Bishop Steiner]

Krivvan, on 02 January 2015 - 08:14 AM, said:

That's why when you nerf, you don't nerf way too far. The Highlander and Victor should only have been nerfed to the point where they're still usable and very good. As it is, they're extinct.

Agreed.

And there was no reason for it. There were ways to make poptarting harder, but still viable, without making the signature feature of those mechs, their jumping, a pointless detriment and overall waste of tonnage. Especially since they are being punished in the quirk systems for the "advantage" of having JJs.

[AlmightyAeng]

Mergatroid Skittle, on 02 January 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

This is ultimately a quirk system conversation. In general, I love the quirk system. My only complaint is that some of the quirks get too focused on specific weapon systems. This is basically the Developers saying "Here is the optimal build. Any other build is subobtimal."

The result is that you see the EXACT same builds ALL the time, like the ERPPC TDR-9s and the SPL FS9-A. In my opinion, this takes away the creativity and variance in builds that make this game more interesting.

I say keep the quirks broad and let the players use weapon modules to "specialize".



So we build a quirk system so that a specific mech can be effective at a certain map in a specific game mode? That seems odd.

Yes, with quirks you see less builds on a single Chassis. There is a most prevalent build for a specific chassis. However...

Pre-quirk all you saw was one uber meta build on nearly every chassis. Do you remember the poptart meta? PPC/AC5 on Shadowhawks, Victors and Highlanders. That was ALL you see on comp teams. The same damned weapons placed on differently shaped mechs.

I'll take multiple mechs running different weapons with a 95% chance of knowing what a certain chassis is going to bring ANY day of the week over what we HAD.