472 replies to this topic

[Grynos]

Fighting over insignificant pixels that do not matter ( with CW being in Beta ) gets everyone in an uproar I guess. Lol
I just want a fun game mode that nets me lots of C-Bills .

There are tons of "tactics" that are not fun for the players. Tar pitting , Spawn camping, ghost dropping, etc. PGI has to address some if not all of these issues if they want to have a successful game mode in CW.

[Faith McCarron]

Thanks for posting that, Dimento.

[Grynos]

Dimento Graven, on 14 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

As promised, that first alternate strategy attempt, where we won:


We tried doing this on Sulfer and ran out of time...

So basically you are using ACES strat. Seeing as they have been doing this for weeks now,

[Dimento Graven]

Grynos, on 14 January 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

So basically you are using ACES strat. Seeing as they have been doing this for weeks now,

Maybe, not having dropped with ACES I wouldn't know. This strategy was cooked up by a new recruit to the RRB, so, great minds think alike I guess?

[Grynos]

Dimento Graven, on 14 January 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

Maybe, not having dropped with ACES I wouldn't know. This strategy was cooked up by a new recruit to the RRB, so, great minds think alike I guess?

One win constitutes nothing. Just saying.

[MischiefSC]

Not going to rehash stuff that's already been gone over. Editing it all out.

Just dropped 12 pugs vs TCAF. They ran for attrition, we held them to the last 4 minutes where they won with a 4th wave zerg. We had 4 people run through all their mechs and 8 v 12 couldn't put them down fast enough. Was a hard fought match and we kept neck and neck for kills the whole time.

Was a Liao 12man trying to tar pit 12 Davion pugs?

No. Don't be silly. Zerging is boring, they ran for kills and fun playing. Props to them for that. It was a great match and everyone had fun.

Edited by MischiefSC, 14 January 2015 - 12:46 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Grynos, on 14 January 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

One win constitutes nothing. Just saying.

If nothing else it calls into question the implication that the only matches Davion is winning are the turret drops.

If we were able to win with a strategy we never utilized before nor had practiced, ON THE VERY FIRST ATTEMPT, it might suggest something about all the other matches where Davion faces actual Liao forces, primarily: Liao is NOT winning every single non-turret run match...

[Faith McCarron]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

So, if I understand this right, the problem is that while Liao fields more total players over all over the day and often turret walks planets up to 100% when off primetime (which is fine - if we don't have the people there to defend that it's our problem) and then when queues are pretty much even at primetime we still walk it down below 50.... it's because Davion has more people somehow?

There is NO WAY that Liao fields more total players overall than Davion, so the first thing you base your premise on is flawed.

As for your bit about tar pitting pugs, obvious troll is obvious.

[Faith McCarron]

Dimento Graven, on 14 January 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

If nothing else it calls into question the implication that the only matches Davion is winning are the turret drops.

If we were able to win with a strategy we never utilized before nor had practiced, ON THE VERY FIRST ATTEMPT, it might suggest something about all the other matches where Davion faces actual Liao forces, primarily: Liao is NOT winning every single non-turret run match...

Nobody is saying that Liao is winning every single match. What we are saying is that our unit win rate is pretty good, yet we get thumped when it comes to winning pieces of the pie. We can see the queue numbers, there aren't THAT many pugs dropping and getting rolled so as to account for this.

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

If anyone is sitting here saying Liao is dominant in all of their matches, they're huffing paint. Same if the Davions are claiming to roll Liao every time, which I don't think anyone is saying.

Davion, for a while, was running with a large portion of the active merc groups, and their numbers advantage gained them quite a bit of territory through wins and ghost drops. When those groups left, Davion is still fielding a large portion of player groups, and during peak hours is probably outnumbering Liao, but the fight is much more even. Ghost drops might still be playing a role, albeit smaller than previously.


I think we would all like a better system than ghost drops, because then this entire thread would be null.

Edited by MadWOPR, 14 January 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

MadWOPR, on 14 January 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

I think we would all like a better system than ghost drops, because then this entire thread would be null.

I think each planet should have its own attack window starting at the moment of the first enemy attack, and lasting 24 hours from that point. I believe that would result in planets having 'randomized' attack and cease fire windows (as compared to one another) as opposed to the current 'galactic' attack/cease fire windows.

Also someone mentioned something about 'ticket' system, where zerging and losing forces overly much would eventually result in an inability to field a full 12 man team allowing the enemy opportunity to counter attack unimpeded. An interesting idea...

More importantly "turret runs" should be changed into a more meaningful game mode, where there's potentially HUNDREDS of turrets to fight through before the attacking team can blow up Omega. Thus requiring most if not all of the 30 minute battle window to accomplish. This would result in a lot less whining about turret runs, as well as significantly decrease the potential number of them.

But... That's rehashing posts from like, what? 10 pages ago?

[Harvey Batchall Kerensky at Law]

I mean there has been enough said on the subject already that I don't really see a point for this thread to continue. It's basically turned into a catchall complaint and bickering thread, and the actual thread issue of ghost drops and other frustrating mechanics is something that I think everyone recognizes and wants improved.

[Faith McCarron]

MadWOPR, on 14 January 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

If anyone is sitting here saying Liao is dominant in all of their matches, they're huffing paint. Same if the Davions are claiming to roll Liao every time, which I don't think anyone is saying.

Not all, but we win more than we lose.....yet we lose.

[Grynos]

What I am saying is that anyone can win a match against anyone. Hell WoL won against ACES twice in one day, does that mean anything? Nope. Just means on that particular match we did better then they did. That's all. Anyone who says that their faction is winning all the matches is false. It's just not true.

[Grynos]

Faith McCarron, on 14 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Not all, but we win more than we lose.....yet we lose.

Perhaps, but if you were defending on any of those matches, then essentially you won but you didn't . Right now CW is favoring the faction who gets into queue first. It really is a bad game design. Also defenders when they win should gain a section of the pie, which does not happen right now, as it stands they gain nothing. The current CW system heavily favors the faction that has the numbers, it screws the defenders, as they cannot gain anything from success, and it promotes some of the other issues that people are complaining about due to this.

[Pit]

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Not trying to say Liao pilots are all bad, etc. etc. just that when there's equal populations in queue we don't lose worlds.

Because the air raid siren goes off at 10:00 est and suddenly 12v12 turns 56 vs 12 and the 70% we caved into your planet's face evaporates.

Again this is beside the point, I want gudfights. I don't give a damn about how much you care about expanding your planet's territory, If this keeps up I'll be in support of asking Merick if they want to trade worlds again and let you guys shoot at turrets all you want.

Edited by Pit, 14 January 2015 - 01:26 PM.

[Maxwell Albritten]

Despite what all the Davs say in here, all we see day in and day out is that they need to field 3:1 to get the planets. That's the end of the story and end of the thread. It really baffles me that the Davions think they can talk circles around reality.

[MischiefSC]

Faith McCarron, on 14 January 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

There is NO WAY that Liao fields more total players overall than Davion, so the first thing you base your premise on is flawed.

As for your bit about tar pitting pugs, obvious troll is obvious.

I'm pointing out the inherent flaw in what is being argued; teams play to attrition and it runs the whole match.

NO WAY huh? Go count up border population, pretty much any time of day on any given day. Since Christmas we have days where primetime we're fielding 24 or less. I just watched Bied get turret-walked up to 40% with 12 attackers and 0-7 defenders. Probably about as much boredom as TCAF could take. I don't blame them; turret walks are boring.

The Marik and Kurita fronts are cold right now and have been for days; it's all been on the Liao front. So when you've been watching the bit with more Liao than Davion players on in primetime? That's everyone we've got.

Which is fine. Ebb and flow.

What I find amazing and what's keeping this thread alive is that every other faction in the game, IS and Clan, has turret drops both for and against them. PGI has come out with the actual metrics covering what total % of drops turrets account for (~3%). Yet it's only here, in Liao, that you run into this attitude that the only reason they every lose is turret drops. Marik was fighting back Davion when we were dropping against them 60+ to 24. They adapted tactics and brought in more players to the front. After Christmas it was often just the opposite; Davion adapted, called tactics as best we could and tried to manage losses. Made up for a lot of them on the Liao front. Kurita traded worlds back and forth with Davion that whole time. Yet it's only here that there's this need, bordering on insecurity, to say that the only reason Liao loses is some evil manipulation of the matchmaker or this magical 30 minutes of steep population disparity where the regular matchmaker doesn't function and the 1 turret walk at a time doesn't apply because DAVION.

If you guys really, really need to believe that the only losses you take are to turrets, okay. Whatever makes you feel better I guess. It's just the Matchmaker picking on you maybe? Elo conspiracy?

Please do go fight with Marik. You can use 'turret drop' as a code word for the repeated face-stompings they will give you too.

[MischiefSC]

Faith McCarron, on 14 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Not all, but we win more than we lose.....yet we lose.

Odd, because I beat Liao ~50% when pugging and 75-80% when dropping as a unit. In fact you'll find almost everyone in every faction has the same experience. When you're in a unit you're skewing performance significantly; less pugs means less odds you've got a sandbagging window-licker with you.

Especially if you're playing at odd times you're going to be playing largely against pugs, if you're dropping as a group you're dropping group against pugs. The 12 pugs dropping the same time as you are getting facerolled repeatedly while you're probably winning ~75% if you're in a group.

Yet you make the mistake of taking some anecdotal experience and equating it to what happens all the time for everyone - which is why people struggle to take your arguments seriously.

[Faith McCarron]

Well then what is your explanation for the border getting rolled back the way it has been?

MischiefSC, on 14 January 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Yet you make the mistake of taking some anecdotal experience and equating it to what happens all the time for everyone - which is why people struggle to take your arguments seriously.

People? What people?