65 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Saxie, on 03 January 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

We at MS will also jump gates if there is no attempt to push the gates immediately there are clans who will employ delay tactics just to keep us on the map. It's imperative that we get our groups dropping as much as possible and we cannot afford to get bogged down by groups just delaying us.

Hey. We learned it from your Steiner paymasters.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Mystere, on 03 January 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Hey. We learned it from your Steiner paymasters.

Who learned it from wolf

[Mystere]

DV McKenna, on 03 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Who learned it from wolf

Mutts!

[Thorqemada]

Spawncamping is the best defense against a rush.

To prevent Generator rushes CW needs a Conquest like element were the Attacker has to hold a certain Areal for a certain amount of time (to overtake a "Control Tower" and disable the Orbial Gun) so that "30 second suicdal rushes" no longer can succeed.

Edited by Thorqemada, 03 January 2015 - 09:31 AM.

[tezzaa]

the things you ******* say ....

[nehebkau]

There is a a way to get passed the gate if you are attacking in boreal map without JJs -- but I'm not telling -- it's been sent in to support@mwomercs.com.

[Prophetic]

I guess people will only be happy when all mechs are capped at 10kph and med lasers are the only thing you can mount.

Seriously, sometimes you have to give it to the other team. They got a direwhale over! That is awesome.

Now that you have seen it, the only real question is what are you going to do about it?

Try to come up with a counter or join a unit that already has one.

Edited by Prophetic, 03 January 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[Mystere]

Thorqemada, on 03 January 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Spawncamping is the best defense against a rush.

To prevent Generator rushes CW needs a Conquest like element were the Attacker has to hold a certain Areal for a certain amount of time (to overtake a "Control Tower" and disable the Orbial Gun) so that "30 second suicdal rushes" no longer can succeed.

Only if we get support AI units like tanks and infantry, unless you want the pilot to jump out of his cockpit to plug and hack into some system.

Just get more maps and game modes out. And hopefully, better than what we have now. Leave invasion as is. Nerf/buff cycles just tend to go on endlessly. What we really need is variety.

Prophetic, on 03 January 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I guess people will only be happy when all mechs are capped at 10kph and med lasers are the only thing you can mount.

Seriously, sometimes you have to give it to the other team. They got a direwhale over! That is awesome.

Many people will never be happy until they only win all of the time.

[Aethon]

MightyBolamite, on 02 January 2015 - 11:04 PM, said:

I just finished a game on Boreal Vaults. IS vs Clan, counterattacking; oh joy.
We all knew it wasn't going to be a lot of fun, but we were plotting and chatting in the chat. Then, before we were even able to form up and begin to take out the gates, the Clans jump over the gates. Only one at first, and then all of them. Even a Direwhale. They spawn camped us without even taking down a gate.
How is this a thing?
For the love of... look, PGI, I have been most patient with a lot of things. But this is broken!
I am displeased that the Jade Falcons took advantage of this, but I am most displeased that it can happen in the first place.
And we were counterattacking the single win they had on the planet.

I am not in the mood for this.

I have said it before, and I will say it again.

If the defenders come out to meet you, they are actually putting themselves at a disadvantage. Every time one of you dies, you are back in the fight the second you drop; every time one of the defenders dies, it takes them a couple minutes to get back to the fight. Furthermore, your dropships with their pinpoint large laser turrets come in, guns blazing, every time they drop off a new mech. The defenders also give up the cover they would have had inside the base, as well as their friendly turret support.

The defenders did this to one of my groups when we were attacking; before long, we were down 9 mechs, and they were down nearly 30. The end result was pretty amusing, as we just played it like deathmatch and took them all out instead of bothering with the gens/gun. They literally exhausted most of their mechs trying to spawncamp us, and it backfired in a big way.

So, do not despair if your targets come out to greet you; smile, stay behind the drop zone, and butcher them.

[Thorqemada]

If the Defenders/Attackers camp the spawn it is simply a matter who get the number advantage and has the range to stay out of the Dropship lasers - Clans have the range and some IS Mechs too - if the Camper has enough Mechs to kill/kripple the Attacker/Defender in the moment of the spawn its over.
That is bcs the reinfocements will dripple in over 1 minute or so...wave after wave of Reinforcements dripples in being outnumbered and slaughtered.

Edited by Thorqemada, 03 January 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

Mystere, on 03 January 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Hey. We learned it from your Steiner paymasters.

DV McKenna, on 03 January 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Who learned it from wolf

Lol that made my day.

[Starwulfe]

I expect I was in that fight.
Jumping the gate and fighting from the connector to prevent you from opening the gates is not spawn camping.
Sitting right at your dropship is camping.
And we don't push out and camp until the attackers drop below 12 mechs and we have a good lead.

It's a valid tactic. (unless PGI decides to change it)
What military just sits at their base and waits for the enemy to invade when they know it's coming?

With minimal effort the tactic can be overcome. Communicate with your team.

Edited by Starwulfe, 03 January 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Pat Kell]

You are attacking someone's base and you expect them to just sit back and wait for you to get organized and make a mad dash for the generators and gun? If we could open the gate as defenders, we would every time because as an MS person pointed out, we need to make as many drops as we can and don't have time to wait for you guys to decide to open the gate at your leisure. The moment PGI makes it impossible to get over the gates while defending, pugs all across the universe will simply camp as best they can, collect a few c-bills and run the clock out. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Oh and yes you can get a Dire Whale over the wall. Sorry, no screenshots so you will just have to take my word for it.

Edited by Pat Kell, 03 January 2015 - 01:14 PM.

[StillRadioactive]

ShinVector, on 02 January 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

Direwolf going over gate without a gate being taken down.
Screenshots/video or its a lie.

If that was a Lords group.. Getting crushed like that isn't surprising though.

If I'm not mistaken, the path used to get assaults out of Alpha gate takes them out of bounds. Since the out of bounds kill mechanism is broken on that map, it should be rendered impossible when PGI fixes that issue (ideally in the next patch).

Unless there's another path that I'm not aware of.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

StillRadioactive, on 03 January 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

If I'm not mistaken, the path used to get assaults out of Alpha gate takes them out of bounds. Since the out of bounds kill mechanism is broken on that map, it should be rendered impossible when PGI fixes that issue (ideally in the next patch).

Unless there's another path that I'm not aware of.

It's definitely not out of bounds and is actually fairly obvious since it's a common defense spot. There's one on Rift as well.

I really see nothing wrong with it. If a group lacks the momentum to steamroll the mechs going over the gate (and it takes awhile for a bunch without JJs to do so), then it's simply finishing a match quicker that was already doomed from the get go and time is more precious than farming kills, especially when it's close to cease fire time.

Mechs without JJs cannot get back over once they drop down. It's a one way trip to the scrap heap and the people going over the gate know this. My advise is to use better coordination and form up firing lines so you can drop them as soon as they pop up. If you wait, you're going to have a hard time beating a counter rush that's sole purpose is to kill your momentum and swing the attrition battle way out of your favor.

[kapusta11]

99% of the time it comes down to either which side are on teamspeak or which has better co-ordination or which has more highly skilled players. The map is fine.

Edited by kapusta11, 03 January 2015 - 03:21 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Attacker position on Boreal needs some defensive cover. The issue isn't attackers getting over the gate - that makes sense in a lot of ways, I wish Sulfur was easier for it as well. The issue is that the Attacker dropzone has absolutely no cover and you can gun them all down at range.

[Doc Sav]

Yeah, while it is frustrating, the success is generally from well coordinated groups. When MS smacked us around, they were clearly being smart about coordinating ejects to make sure they had a consistent strong presence outside the gate. A PUG inherently has a higher risk of failure jumping the gates due to slower communications and varying player experience and cooperation. I still would agree with those who say that being able to get a team over gates is what is the balance issue with CW.

And of course, with a continuous development cycle a game like this has, getting bent about the issues in beta is just silly. Best you can do is keep playing to generate useful data for the devs, and find whatever satisfaction you can toward countering strategies that work.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 03 January 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

Attacker position on Boreal needs some defensive cover. The issue isn't attackers getting over the gate - that makes sense in a lot of ways, I wish Sulfur was easier for it as well. The issue is that the Attacker dropzone has absolutely no cover and you can gun them all down at range.

As I said in other threads, just have more maps, some that are better for the attacker. How much that would be I leave to PGI.

PGI can try to balance the two maps ad infinitum, or -- for variety -- just have other maps with different conditions.

Edited by Mystere, 03 January 2015 - 08:16 PM.

[Vanguard836]

Saxie, on 03 January 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

We at MS will also jump gates if there is no attempt to push the gates immediately there are clans who will employ delay tactics just to keep us on the map. It's imperative that we get our groups dropping as much as possible and we cannot afford to get bogged down by groups just delaying us.

I call this fair tactical flexibility on your team's part. Kudos !