195 replies to this topic

[Illya Ghost Bear]

kf envy, on 05 January 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

if that is so then PGI has set them self up to fail from the get go.

Yes, because accurately knowing your customer base, financially, and planning toward it, is a bad idea. They have been closing shop and running since 2012, after all.

[Green Mamba]

Rokuzachi, on 05 January 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

Because the cryengine is involved, that's not steaming fudge atop it.

MW:LL didnt have a problem with Cryengine

[Heffay]

Green Mamba, on 05 January 2015 - 06:08 PM, said:

MW:LL didnt have a problem with Cryengine

Yes they did. Take off the hate blinders. MWLL didn't try to get a fraction of what PGI has out of Cryengine.

Unless, of course, you think client side hit detection is a good thing. Or maybe lasers that look like they spread the damage out, but are really front loaded pinpoint ones...

[Kill Dozer]

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

They've done a lot of devastating things. The one factor keeping this game alive is the tenacity and devotion of its playerbase.

Even that's not gonna carry MWO through this CW beta early access only an alpha AAA release. PGI needs to get into the trenches, and very soon, or it's gonna be for real ggclose.

QFT.

I hate to bring it up but the Transverse debacle showed what happens to a fledgling game without the 30 years of established player base Mechwarrior has. If MWO was anything else but Mechwarrior it would have folded in closed beta.

To their credit, PGI has made a lot of positive changes since IGP left the picture but there's more to do. A hard look at pricing would help, 6mil for a module and +/-4mil for a 200 xl engine etc. is a bit steep.

Edited by Kill Dozer, 05 January 2015 - 06:19 PM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Heffay, on 05 January 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yes they did. Take off the hate blinders. MWLL didn't try to get a fraction of what PGI has out of Cryengine.

Unless, of course, you think client side hit detection is a good thing. Or maybe lasers that look like they spread the damage out, but are really front loaded pinpoint ones...

don't forget the MW4 level amazing graphics......(OK maybe a little hyperbole of my own on that, but the graphics level used was not terribly impressive...though PGI certainly has not maxxed or optimized those, either)

Kill Dozer, on 05 January 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

QFT.

I hate to bring it up but the Transverse debacle showed what happens to a fledgling game without the 30 years of established player base Mechwarrior has. If MWO was anything else but Mechwarrior it would have folded in closed beta.

There is some truth to this, but Transverse also was a matter of wrong project, wrong time (Announcing after SC and Elite Dangerous? Not. Good. ), and a pretty concerted effort by the butthurt masses to see it torpedoed.

It wasn't JUST about not having an established customer base / IP.

Edited by Illya Arkhipova, 05 January 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[Roadkill]

Illya Arkhipova, on 05 January 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

actually, it pretty obviously assumes a smaller customer base, but one with more free income.

Actually, it was modeled after World of Tanks, which has a (relatively) massive player base.

BattleTech-related games have always been (relatively) small. Assuming that a World of Tanks-style pricing structure would be best was a mistake.

It has worked... barely. I'm very confident that they could have done much better.

[Burktross]

Illya Arkhipova, on 05 January 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

and yet everything, even those bundles, go on sale (for example http://mwomercs.com/...y-packs-save-50 ). Will likely happen even more on STEAM.

Now that Atlas Bundle is for 5000 MC, or 22 bucks, and becomes 3 mechs (a Hero and Champ where applicable) and 30 days Premium Time (2500 MC value) for that, meaning since the Premium Time is about 12 bucks on it own, you just paid 10 bucks, approximately, for a Boars Head (7500 mc) and AS7-RS(C) (4685 mc), a AS7-D-DC (4195 mc), 3 Mechbays (900 mc) and a silly cockpit item (500 mc). So you just paid 3 bucks a pop for the mechs, including a Hero Atlas that usually runs 35 bucks.

(or 20180 mc worth of stuff, for 10200 mc off sale, or 5100 mc on sale)

Now if only...
Bundles were on sale regularly I asked if they have bundles sales a while back. They said they never had-- so I assume it's quiiiiite the rarity!
Everything was able to be bought with a mastery pack.

If everything was priced maybe a little higher than the individual items in mastery packs were, it'd be good, in my opinion. (Not including premium and mechbays, which are reasonably priced. I'd say premium needs a boost in cbills, but that's a whole 'nuther thing)

Edit: Changed discounting to "not including" to avoid confusion

Illya Arkhipova, on 05 January 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

There is some truth to this, but Transverse also was a matter of wrong project, wrong time (Announcing after SC and Elite Dangerous? Not. Good. ), and a pretty concerted effort by the butthurt masses to see it torpedoed.

It wasn't JUST about not having an established customer base / IP.

Can someone explain to me "Transverse?" Site wont load.

Edited by Burktross, 05 January 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[Burktross]

Redacted. Forum decided it wanted to double post instead of add an addendum to my last one

Edited by Burktross, 05 January 2015 - 06:56 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Burktross, on 05 January 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Now if only...
Bundles were on sale regularly I asked if they have bundles sales a while back. They said they never had-- so I assume it's quiiiiite the rarity!
Everything was able to be bought with a mastery pack.

If everything was priced maybe a little higher than the individual items in mastery packs were, it'd be good, in my opinion. (Not including premium and mechbays, which are reasonably priced. I'd say premium needs a boost in cbills, but that's a whole 'nuther thing)

Edit: Changed discounting to "not including" to avoid confusion



Can someone explain to me "Transverse?" Site wont load.

PGI decided they wanted in on the space money. They made a TOTALLY ORIGINAL GAME that wasn't EVE merged with starcitizen. It totally had its own wingman's hangar and everything.



They had some totally original ships.








It was a massive disaster.



I believe they ended on some 10,000 dollars, with 130~ backers. Bryan made lots of ridiculous claims. For instance, they have the wing commander license. They feel that MWO has delivered at least comparable to other games that have gotten crowdfunding since 2012 (he's talking about starcitizen and elite, in case it wasn't obvious enough). He also said that they had delivered on all their initial pitch promises, and that there was a loud minority who was hating on PGI. Oh, and he said that MWO had totally not suffered any kind of delays, despite them moving people from MWO to transverse, and working on transverse since at least december 2013.

Just a huge mess. Niko was fired, Bryan hid under a rock somewhere, Russ took over almost everything, and they made a bunch of good decisions for MWO when it became apparent that they couldn't escape to space. Or maybe that was entirely unrelated, and all the good things happened because they'd planned to do them all along.

The r/mwo reddit has most of the transverse saga archieved, but you can just google transverse. Just be warned that it's like a saturday morning cartoon villain plot.

Transverse is easily the most ridiculous videogame masterplan I've ever seen or heard of. It defied all logic and reason, and I couldn't believe the hubris on display, or the decisions that were made.

Edit: read this thread. This came about when Niko got all of PGI banned, and the backlash hit for real.

http://mwomercs.com/...garding-reddit/

Edited by Vassago Rain, 05 January 2015 - 07:12 PM.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Burktross, on 05 January 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Now if only...
Bundles were on sale regularly I asked if they have bundles sales a while back. They said they never had-- so I assume it's quiiiiite the rarity!
Everything was able to be bought with a mastery pack.

If everything was priced maybe a little higher than the individual items in mastery packs were, it'd be good, in my opinion. (Not including premium and mechbays, which are reasonably priced. I'd say premium needs a boost in cbills, but that's a whole 'nuther thing)

Edit: Changed discounting to "not including" to avoid confusion



Can someone explain to me "Transverse?" Site wont load.

It won't load because it's dead. It was an attempt at a space fighter game with apparently roleplay elements, but poorly timed. It Bryan is to be believed it was started before SC was announced, after PGI obtained the Wing Commander license....but regardless, bad timing, bad panning, etc.

[Burktross]

Illya Arkhipova, on 05 January 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

It won't load because it's dead. It was an attempt at a space fighter game with apparently roleplay elements, but poorly timed. It Bryan is to be believed it was started before SC was announced, after PGI obtained the Wing Commander license....but regardless, bad timing, bad panning, etc.

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

PGI decided they wanted in on the space money. They made a TOTALLY ORIGINAL GAME that wasn't EVE merged with starcitizen. It totally had its own wingman's hangar and everything.



They had some totally original ships.








It was a massive disaster.



I believe they ended on some 10,000 dollars, with 130~ backers. Bryan made lots of ridiculous claims. For instance, they have the wing commander license. They feel that MWO has delivered at least comparable to other games that have gotten crowdfunding since 2012 (he's talking about starcitizen and elite, in case it wasn't obvious enough). He also said that they had delivered on all their initial pitch promises, and that there was a loud minority who was hating on PGI. Oh, and he said that MWO had totally not suffered any kind of delays, despite them moving people from MWO to transverse, and working on transverse since at least december 2013.

Just a huge mess. Niko was fired, Bryan hid under a rock somewhere, Russ took over almost everything, and they made a bunch of good decisions for MWO when it became apparent that they couldn't escape to space. Or maybe that was entirely unrelated, and all the good things happened because they'd planned to do them all along.

The r/mwo reddit has most of the transverse saga archieved, but you can just google transverse. Just be warned that it's like a saturday morning cartoon villain plot.

Transverse is easily the most ridiculous videogame masterplan I've ever seen or heard of. It defied all logic and reason, and I couldn't believe the hubris on display, or the decisions that were made.

Edit: read this thread. This came about when Niko got all of PGI banned, and the backlash hit for real.

http://mwomercs.com/...garding-reddit/

Ah, thanks for the info, and rest in pepperoni Transverse

[Rorvik]

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

PGI decided they wanted in on the space money. They made a TOTALLY ORIGINAL GAME that wasn't EVE merged with starcitizen. It totally had its own wingman's hangar and everything.

...

They had some totally original ships.

...

It was a massive disaster.

I believe they ended on some 10,000 dollars, with 130~ backers. Bryan made lots of ridiculous claims. For instance, they have the wing commander license. They feel that MWO has delivered at least comparable to other games that have gotten crowdfunding since 2012 (he's talking about starcitizen and elite, in case it wasn't obvious enough). He also said that they had delivered on all their initial pitch promises, and that there was a loud minority who was hating on PGI. Oh, and he said that MWO had totally not suffered any kind of delays, despite them moving people from MWO to transverse, and working on transverse since at least december 2013.

Just a huge mess. Niko was fired, Bryan hid under a rock somewhere, Russ took over almost everything, and they made a bunch of good decisions for MWO when it became apparent that they couldn't escape to space. Or maybe that was entirely unrelated, and all the good things happened because they'd planned to do them all along.

The r/mwo reddit has most of the transverse saga archieved, but you can just google transverse. Just be warned that it's like a saturday morning cartoon villain plot.

Transverse is easily the most ridiculous videogame masterplan I've ever seen or heard of. It defied all logic and reason, and I couldn't believe the hubris on display, or the decisions that were made.

Edit: read this thread. This came about when Niko got all of PGI banned, and the backlash hit for real.

http://mwomercs.com/...garding-reddit/

I actually looked this up a couple of hours ago when I started reading this thread, but I'm quoting this as it sums it up nicely.

My reaction?

Hhhooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ssssshhhhh*********************tttttt!!!!!!

I have to say, I'm actually quite frightened for MWO and PGI now.

No, I'm frightened OF PGI now!!!

Like a few others here, I thought that if PGI didn't get their act together, MWO would not make it into 2015. Looks like I wasn't too far off the mark, but IGP's bankruptcy (another hhhoooollllleeeee ssshhh***ttt reaction in itself) and Transverse's epic meltdown seems to have put things back on track.

However, when I look at the entire Transverse debacle, I'm astounded by how the decisions to even consider the game and the campaign got made. And watching the videos and the details of the fund raising campaign, it's difficult to believe they actually thought they could pull it off, especially given their track record on MWO.

Either PGI is frighteningly out of touch with their community, nay, the real world, or this was a malicious attempt to make a faux space-sim game in an effort to milk the popularity of Star Citizen / Elite: Dangerous with no real intent to deliver, and using MWO money to boot!

Honestly, I'm not sure which is worse.

Worse still, though, is that they also seemed to think not only that they are completely immune to criticism in the world at large, but that most people in the world were too stupid to see through the charade.

If only they had done this in April; then we could say it was an April Fool's joke to troll all the space-sim fans given the ridiculous amount of money Star Citizen has raised.

Wow. Just...wow... I am honestly stunned right now...

[Lily from animove]

Rorvik, on 06 January 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

I actually looked this up a couple of hours ago when I started reading this thread, but I'm quoting this as it sums it up nicely. My reaction? Hhhooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ssssshhhhh*********************tttttt!!!!!! I have to say, I'm actually quite frightened for MWO and PGI now. No, I'm frightened OF PGI now!!! Like a few others here, I thought that if PGI didn't get their act together, MWO would not make it into 2015. Looks like I wasn't too far off the mark, but IGP's bankruptcy (another hhhoooollllleeeee ssshhh***ttt reaction in itself) and Transverse's epic meltdown seems to have put things back on track. However, when I look at the entire Transverse debacle, I'm astounded by how the decisions to even consider the game and the campaign got made. And watching the videos and the details of the fund raising campaign, it's difficult to believe they actually thought they could pull it off, especially given their track record on MWO. Either PGI is frighteningly out of touch with their community, nay, the real world, or this was a malicious attempt to make a faux space-sim game in an effort to milk the popularity of Star Citizen / Elite: Dangerous with no real intent to deliver, and using MWO money to boot! Honestly, I'm not sure which is worse. Worse still, though, is that they also seemed to think not only that they are completely immune to criticism in the world at large, but that most people in the world were too stupid to see through the charade. If only they had done this in April; then we could say it was an April Fool's joke to troll all the space-sim fans given the ridiculous amount of money Star Citizen has raised. Wow. Just...wow... I am honestly stunned right now...

IGP is gone PGI is now sailing the ship.

Not sur eif it was much transverse related at all that melted down things, but in the end, in the MWO community you will not very likely have success with trying to establish another spacegame. We are here for mechs not spaceships. It's like trying to advertise a pony riding simulation game in a car racing game.

[Joseph Mallan]

cdlord, on 05 January 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

MWO is one awesome game. I'm sorry you cannot see that. PGI is allowed to stretch their legs, it's been a while.

I wouldn't call it awesome. Its good with potential of awesome but that is to be determined by how CW pans out and the choices they make while tuning it.

Vassago Rain, on 05 January 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

PGI decided they wanted in on the space money. They made a TOTALLY ORIGINAL GAME that wasn't EVE merged with starcitizen. It totally had its own wingman's hangar and everything.



They had some totally original ships.

History of Battletech 1oh1... Don't copy someone else's stuff... even if someone gives you permission!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 January 2015 - 06:52 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 January 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

I wouldn't call it awesome. Its good with potential of awesome but that is to be determined by how CW pans out and the choices they make while tuning it.


History of Battletech 1oh1... Don't copy someone else's stuff... even if someone gives you permission!

its not like that those SC stuff even is original itself, thats basically also copied of stuff that already exists.

[Vassago Rain]

Lily from animove, on 06 January 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

its not like that those SC stuff even is original itself, thats basically also copied of stuff that already exists.

They are modern day versions of older Chris Roberts ships, who is the one making starcitizen... Except the RSI redeemer, which was a community created ship that won some SC youtube show. Strange how PGI managed to copy it, too.

Edit: that's not saying other games haven't drawn upon the timeless freelancer and wing commander classics. Here's an EVE ship that bears certain similarities to the XYZ borderworlds freelancer ships, which have been largely recreated as the 300 series in starcitizen.





But there's a difference between copying something, and being inspired by something, then incorporating that inspiration in your own project to create something new. PGI went option #1, CCP of EVE fame went option #2.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 06 January 2015 - 08:32 AM.

[Ryche]

Lily from animove, on 05 January 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

its called pay to WIN, and not every advantage makes you WIN, p2w is givign you a an advantage big enough to decide matches or the outcome of them to a viable degree and this is nto the case, NO wait my nova is p2w because i win battles in it and wrekc TBR's as well, so what now? tbr not p2w? don't see an advantage in mechs in beat.

ther eis freeium content, and thre is premium content, and premium content does not imply p2w just because any kind of slight advantage is in it.

And why does paying 500$ means I don't know about value? Thats quite stupid to say, especially since you are even not able to know that the gold mech is 260$ because it includes the whole masakari package valued at 240$ or 10$ each mech. And you gonna tell me not knowing about value LOL. So its not 500$ for a skin, its actually not even 260$ for a skin, because it includes a mech with cbill bonus as well. But tell me more about knowing of values.

And yes I look at my golden nova and enjoy it, the shiny reflections look great, that mech repayed more value than the crappy 5$ version of dead space which was a horribel game not worth a single cent.

now read some definitions and undertsand nothign in mwo ever was p2w

http://de.urbandicti...term=pay-to-win

because p2w is not simply any advantage

so shiny, so beautiful, so much a reaosn why TPS mode is worth to be used when walkign over the empty plains to the place of battles.

Sine lily can't read his own link here is the first definition from the urban dictionary
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

[Joseph Mallan]

Illya Arkhipova, on 05 January 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

Value is subjective.

Pretty sure if we poured over your annual spendings we would find a heck of a lot more than 500$ "wasted".

Maybe... but paying $500 for a color in a computer game is somewhat more wasteful than anything he likely may have wasted $500 on.

[Lily from animove]

Ryche, on 06 January 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

Sine lily can't read his own link here is the first definition from the urban dictionary
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

largely unbalance,d you cna still beat a TBR to trash easily woth the right mech and loadout. do you know what largely unbalanced is? have you ever palyed those asia games, where that gear makes you have 2x the HOp, by double the damage, meanign you are like 4x weaker. You have no idea what p2w is, the slight gap the TBR is is not p2w,

make a armorless naked Fs with a 150 engine small laser and let it play vs a fully armroed one with real engine and 4 Mlas. then you would ahve a p2w scenario.

Joseph Mallan, on 06 January 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Maybe... but paying $500 for a color in a computer game is somewhat more wasteful than anything he likely may have wasted $500 on.

only becaue you can not imagine something more wasteful probably, but people waste a laod more money on a load less suefull things. some buy 1000$ champagne bottles, which is gone in what? a few minutes, drunken and gone and you hardly get truly anything from that. WOW GG eez. value is subjective, to money and the object you buy.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 January 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Maybe... but paying $500 for a color in a computer game is somewhat more wasteful than anything he likely may have wasted $500 on.

A person buys starbucks everyday over the course of a year for 2.50 bucks a pop, instead of brewing it at home for 50 cents. That would be $730 wasted every year with zero tangible benefits (not even speed, once you count getting there, waiting in line, etc). And yet a huge portion of the USA does something similar every single day.

Just one of 1000s of examples I can think of, that a person would waste a lot more. But because it's nickle and dimed, it doesn't SEEM as big a waste.

Edited by Illya Arkhipova, 06 January 2015 - 09:12 AM.