233 replies to this topic

[Zeleglok]

Jman5, on 09 January 2015 - 09:12 PM, said:

1/1/1/1 would ultimately just wind up constricting and homogenizing mech choice even more than it already is. You would also wind up screwing over low-ton mechs in each weight group. Who is going to take a 45 tonner over a 55 tonner if they count the same?

Just add 1/1/1/1 to the existing 240 tons rule

[MischiefSC]

Zeleglok, on 09 January 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Just add 1/1/1/1 to the existing 240 tons rule

Was talking to someone about it today. Make it tonnage total 200-240 That makes a max 2 lights, which is going to force them to take 2 assaults.

1/1/1/1 could work.

[Jman5]

1/1/1/1 or 3/3/3/3 has always been a blunt "close enough" approach that was necessary for regular group queue because tonnage restrictions would have been a logistical nightmare for premades. Coming from years of league play which makes use of tonnage restrictions, I know just how much of a headache it can be.

However what we have in CW puts the weight set up all on individual players which is infinitely easier to coordinate. You're not screwing up the team totals by adjusting your mech.

If you implemented even more restrictions into community warfare, sure you would get rid of the guys bringing 2 thunderbolts and 2 stormcrows. They would then sub out 1 stormcrow/thunderbolt with whatever else is next in the power line that fits. And then that will be all anyone sees. Meanwhile you have eviscerated countless other players builds that have absolutely nothing to do with stormcrows or thunderbolts. Guys like me who bring 3 hunchbacks will suddenly be nerfed.

Instead of screwing over everyone because there might be a couple of mechs that are out of alignment, the focus should be on individual mech adjustment. Or taking a look at the maps/objectives and asking yourselves why these mechs are succeeding.

[100mile]

If the game is gonna go to 1/1/1/1 then the max tonnage needs to go up to 250 tons. It's only 10 tons but it opens up a wide variety of mech combinations with out making it so you can drop too heavy. Would also need to make the minimum drop weight 200 tons, which allows you to bring the smallest mech in each weight class (Locust/Cicada/Quickdraw/Victor) This leaves it up to the individual what they bring and makes it so the medium and light mechs are still effective and prevalent on the field.
Just changing the weight limits won't do anything about 2 lights so something like 1/1/1/1 needs to be done...not saying it's the only answer either...just don't know what else can be done.

[Zeleglok]

100mile, on 10 January 2015 - 01:45 AM, said:

If the game is gonna go to 1/1/1/1 then the max tonnage needs to go up to 250 tons. It's only 10 tons but it opens up a wide variety of mech combinations with out making it so you can drop too heavy. Would also need to make the minimum drop weight 200 tons, which allows you to bring the smallest mech in each weight class (Locust/Cicada/Quickdraw/Victor) This leaves it up to the individual what they bring and makes it so the medium and light mechs are still effective and prevalent on the field.
Just changing the weight limits won't do anything about 2 lights so something like 1/1/1/1 needs to be done...not saying it's the only answer either...just don't know what else can be done.

240 would be fine minimal for 1/1/1/1 is 200, maximum is 265. So 240 is just in the mid, giving you opportunity to take big guys in your deck and still requiring to sacrifice smth.
Example decks -
IS - AWS, TDR, WVR, RVN
Clans - GAR, TBR, SCR, KFX

Edited by Zeleglok, 10 January 2015 - 01:54 AM.

[BluefireMW]

I can't almost not believe that you think that the dropdecks need less lights?
It sounds so nice, while it's told, that all is ok against the clans.
Is it less fun to fight against Inner Sphere lights with Inner Sphere? You are just kidding, right? Are the firestarters run into the base and kill an Inner Sphere Reactor as fast as it does against the Clans?
All is perfect. Play against each others with the 4 or 5 mechs using Inner Sphere against the Inner Sphere.
Two Firestarter against each other is fair. You need not take clan mechs in your aspects, because you soon fight against other Inner Sphere Units who uses, what you think you need against the Clans.

[Lawrence Elsa]

MischiefSC, on 09 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

......

The IS ERPPC does 10 damage, 15 heat. It does 10 damage out to 810m, diminishing damage out to 1,620m where it does 1 pt. Weighs 7 tons, takes 3 crit slots. The projectile speed is 1,050. Almost the same as an AC5 round.

The TDR-9S quirks reduce the heat generated by the ERPPC to 7.5 and increase the speed to 1,207.5.

It has maximum armor of 422 pts, like every other 65 ton mech.

That's it.

The TBR, by comparison, has 462 pts of armor - like every other 75 ton mech.

After deciding to do the research myself, I see yours matches up. I guess it serves me right for using other people's numbers from varying teams instead of just getting them myself.

Alas, the mystery continues though, how is it that planets are being taken nearly 3 times as fast as we have? Is there really that drastic of a change in population?

[MischiefSC]

Lawrence Elsa, on 10 January 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

After deciding to do the research myself, I see yours matches up. I guess it serves me right for using other people's numbers from varying teams instead of just getting them myself.

Alas, the mystery continues though, how is it that planets are being taken nearly 3 times as fast as we have? Is there really that drastic of a change in population?

Bluntly; yes.

Davion was winning 3 worlds a DAY for the first 2 or 3 weeks. Liao, Marik, Kurita. We lost nothing. We had tons of people and we had a lot of 12mans rolling. Populations have since shifted; now we're losing 1-2 a day, the only reason it's not 3 is Kurita is focusing on the Clans largely and we're largely leaving them alone. We have days we can't fill queues against even 1 enemy not to mention 2. A lot of merc units have shifted around and in the moment Steiner is drawn away from Marik most the time.

Ebb and flow. Comp teams especially; this switch for the Clans was particularly brutal because it was actually several Clan high-end teams that switch to IS teams; you lost people the IS gained who are intimately familiar with what works best against the Clans. They were responsible for the backbone of a lot of Clan wins; you not only lost that but got it turned against you.

It'll change again sooner or later. People need to focus more on improving their tactics and less on trying to blame individual mechs - aside from light mech zerging there isn't any actual specific mechs that are ruling CW right now. Clan or IS. Ironically Clanners vastly under-value their lights IMO. Especially on maps like Sulfur the Myst Lynx is exceptional - a great scout with mroe firepower than a Spider. While it is slower that doesn't matter much in stretches of 50m and it's *tiny*. You could run a 12 lynx zerg on wave 1 against Sulfur and clear all 3 ogens in 1 go; add a couple Kitfoxes with AMS and ECM and heavier guns (especially SRMs, brilliant for blowing out ogens on Sulfur. High damage for low heat, it matters there). You focus more on staying in cover and less on zipping around. Then you can roll a 12 Dire Wolf zerg for 2nd wave and just bull-rush right through. 12 UAC5 Dires running up Gamma (where you can twist enough to keep your back to the wall while you advance) could get up to the point where they can shoot Omega and nobody is going to do enough damage quickly enough to stop you.

There are so many tactics, so many options that the Clanners never seem to use, at least that I've seen. We call it 'the shell game'. With the exception of top-tier comp teams it beats any cheap tricks with stacked PPFLD or the like - comp teams could do it better I have no doubt, the point is that they don't need to.

Start looking at your deck as 4 complete waves, each with a different objective and build them to suit. Zerg, attrition, bull rush, fast flank, there's a lot of specific tools in the box. Are you on a hot map ogen clearing wave? SRMs and LBXs. High damage, high DPS, low heat. The spread doesn't matter; you're shooting a building sized target. Turrets and mechs? Attrition build; laservomit and LRMs. Zerg? Fast mechs with SRMs; learn to avoid JJing as it makes you a predictable target. Stick to uneven ground that moves you up and down, zag around and behind crests as much as you can. People are aiming for your legs; cover that blocks/moves your legs out of sight is still great even if your torso is exposed. By the time they shift aim you've moved again or they've blow a hole in the dirt.

Anyway. It's populations and a month of focusing on tactics, not trying to optimize mech-for-mech superiority playing against you right now. Especially organized teams have got exploiting how Clanners play, not just WHAT Clanners play, down to a science.

[Davers]

w0lv3rin3, on 08 January 2015 - 11:36 PM, said:

SOON ENOUGH.... CW will be 4x1 drop decks... balance restored, IS can only bring 1x tdr 9s.

Gods, no. Every match would be King Crab/Thud/Shadowhawk/Firestarter vs DireWolf/Timberwolf/Stormcrow/Adder (yes Adder because the engine sounds mean!).

Shredhead, on 09 January 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Are you for real? ERPPC range on the 9S is 810 meters. Max armor points of a Thunderbolt is 422. Max armor points on a Timber is 462. Get your facts straight. And there never was a 4 PPC Cicada. 2000 meter range at full damage, more armor potential than the Timber, can it get a bit more ludicrous?

A 4 PPC Cicada would be terrible. A 2 PPC Cicada isn't bad though.

[Tarogato]

I tried a 2 ER PPC Cicada once. Worst idea idea.

Davers, on 10 January 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

A 4 PPC Cicada would be terrible. A 2 PPC Cicada isn't bad though.

Beyond "terrible". This is about as 'good' as I can seem to get it: 4x PPC -> CDA-2A
Not enough crits for Double Heatsinks and can't take armour (only 2.27 tons max possible) If you take a 100 XL you don't have enough crits for enough Single Heatsinks, but a 145 XL seems to work because it has enough internal sinks.

Edited by Tarogato, 10 January 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[Red Legs Greaves]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

Bluntly; yes.

Davion was winning 3 worlds a DAY for the first 2 or 3 weeks. Liao, Marik, Kurita. We lost nothing. We had tons of people and we had a lot of 12mans rolling. Populations have since shifted; now we're losing 1-2 a day, the only reason it's not 3 is Kurita is focusing on the Clans largely and we're largely leaving them alone. We have days we can't fill queues against even 1 enemy not to mention 2. A lot of merc units have shifted around and in the moment Steiner is drawn away from Marik most the time.

Ebb and flow. Comp teams especially; this switch for the Clans was particularly brutal because it was actually several Clan high-end teams that switch to IS teams; you lost people the IS gained who are intimately familiar with what works best against the Clans. They were responsible for the backbone of a lot of Clan wins; you not only lost that but got it turned against you.

It'll change again sooner or later. People need to focus more on improving their tactics and less on trying to blame individual mechs - aside from light mech zerging there isn't any actual specific mechs that are ruling CW right now. Clan or IS. Ironically Clanners vastly under-value their lights IMO. Especially on maps like Sulfur the Myst Lynx is exceptional - a great scout with mroe firepower than a Spider. While it is slower that doesn't matter much in stretches of 50m and it's *tiny*. You could run a 12 lynx zerg on wave 1 against Sulfur and clear all 3 ogens in 1 go; add a couple Kitfoxes with AMS and ECM and heavier guns (especially SRMs, brilliant for blowing out ogens on Sulfur. High damage for low heat, it matters there). You focus more on staying in cover and less on zipping around. Then you can roll a 12 Dire Wolf zerg for 2nd wave and just bull-rush right through. 12 UAC5 Dires running up Gamma (where you can twist enough to keep your back to the wall while you advance) could get up to the point where they can shoot Omega and nobody is going to do enough damage quickly enough to stop you.

There are so many tactics, so many options that the Clanners never seem to use, at least that I've seen. We call it 'the shell game'. With the exception of top-tier comp teams it beats any cheap tricks with stacked PPFLD or the like - comp teams could do it better I have no doubt, the point is that they don't need to.

Start looking at your deck as 4 complete waves, each with a different objective and build them to suit. Zerg, attrition, bull rush, fast flank, there's a lot of specific tools in the box. Are you on a hot map ogen clearing wave? SRMs and LBXs. High damage, high DPS, low heat. The spread doesn't matter; you're shooting a building sized target. Turrets and mechs? Attrition build; laservomit and LRMs. Zerg? Fast mechs with SRMs; learn to avoid JJing as it makes you a predictable target. Stick to uneven ground that moves you up and down, zag around and behind crests as much as you can. People are aiming for your legs; cover that blocks/moves your legs out of sight is still great even if your torso is exposed. By the time they shift aim you've moved again or they've blow a hole in the dirt.

Anyway. It's populations and a month of focusing on tactics, not trying to optimize mech-for-mech superiority playing against you right now. Especially organized teams have got exploiting how Clanners play, not just WHAT Clanners play, down to a science.

One thing I've noticed about the Clan player base is that they are very unimaginative when it comes to tactics. They seem to be in the mindset that I have this super awesome mech and can just shoot things that walk in my way without thinking about the greater sense of the game. In lore yes the Clan mechs are way superior (at first), but the Clanners training is also intense they are literally raised from birth to fight. So even if they have their rules of war it does not mean that they don't have tactics and ways of interpreting those rules to their advantage.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

Bluntly; yes.

Davion was winning 3 worlds a DAY for the first 2 or 3 weeks. Liao, Marik, Kurita. We lost nothing. We had tons of people and we had a lot of 12mans rolling. Populations have since shifted; now we're losing 1-2 a day, the only reason it's not 3 is Kurita is focusing on the Clans largely and we're largely leaving them alone. We have days we can't fill queues against even 1 enemy not to mention 2. A lot of merc units have shifted around and in the moment Steiner is drawn away from Marik most the time.

Ebb and flow. Comp teams especially; this switch for the Clans was particularly brutal because it was actually several Clan high-end teams that switch to IS teams; you lost people the IS gained who are intimately familiar with what works best against the Clans. They were responsible for the backbone of a lot of Clan wins; you not only lost that but got it turned against you.

It'll change again sooner or later. People need to focus more on improving their tactics and less on trying to blame individual mechs - aside from light mech zerging there isn't any actual specific mechs that are ruling CW right now. Clan or IS. Ironically Clanners vastly under-value their lights IMO. Especially on maps like Sulfur the Myst Lynx is exceptional - a great scout with mroe firepower than a Spider. While it is slower that doesn't matter much in stretches of 50m and it's *tiny*. You could run a 12 lynx zerg on wave 1 against Sulfur and clear all 3 ogens in 1 go; add a couple Kitfoxes with AMS and ECM and heavier guns (especially SRMs, brilliant for blowing out ogens on Sulfur. High damage for low heat, it matters there). You focus more on staying in cover and less on zipping around. Then you can roll a 12 Dire Wolf zerg for 2nd wave and just bull-rush right through. 12 UAC5 Dires running up Gamma (where you can twist enough to keep your back to the wall while you advance) could get up to the point where they can shoot Omega and nobody is going to do enough damage quickly enough to stop you.

There are so many tactics, so many options that the Clanners never seem to use, at least that I've seen. We call it 'the shell game'. With the exception of top-tier comp teams it beats any cheap tricks with stacked PPFLD or the like - comp teams could do it better I have no doubt, the point is that they don't need to.

Start looking at your deck as 4 complete waves, each with a different objective and build them to suit. Zerg, attrition, bull rush, fast flank, there's a lot of specific tools in the box. Are you on a hot map ogen clearing wave? SRMs and LBXs. High damage, high DPS, low heat. The spread doesn't matter; you're shooting a building sized target. Turrets and mechs? Attrition build; laservomit and LRMs. Zerg? Fast mechs with SRMs; learn to avoid JJing as it makes you a predictable target. Stick to uneven ground that moves you up and down, zag around and behind crests as much as you can. People are aiming for your legs; cover that blocks/moves your legs out of sight is still great even if your torso is exposed. By the time they shift aim you've moved again or they've blow a hole in the dirt.

Anyway. It's populations and a month of focusing on tactics, not trying to optimize mech-for-mech superiority playing against you right now. Especially organized teams have got exploiting how Clanners play, not just WHAT Clanners play, down to a science.

Mist lynx isn't available except for real money. Yes, the idea was already floated in my unit to do assault push, alternate assault push, Timberwolf push, mist lynx mop up.

Again, not everyone wants to pay real money for mechs right now.

Red Legs Greaves, on 10 January 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

One thing I've noticed about the Clan player base is that they are very unimaginative when it comes to tactics. They seem to be in the mindset that I have this super awesome mech and can just shoot things that walk in my way without thinking about the greater sense of the game. In lore yes the Clan mechs are way superior (at first), but the Clanners training is also intense they are literally raised from birth to fight. So even if they have their rules of war it does not mean that they don't have tactics and ways of interpreting those rules to their advantage.

Wow, I really love how you guys discriminate about player bases around here. xD

Look at the number of clan mechs that are available for cbills. Its not exactly encouraging. The clans certainly field a large number of very good light support mechs, kitfox is candidate for best support in the game in my opinion. They possess no lights/mediums that are capable of independent scouting/hitting. That role will largely be filled by the dragonfly and Firemoth whenever they become available. The ice ferrit can sort of fill the role but his lack of JJ and missing quirks make him limited and also a good candidate to be devoured by a firestater. Not a bad mech by any means but he just doesn't quiet fill his role just yet.

Likewise the lack of clan quirk pass on the weaker mechs doesn't really help anything. Clans certainly have their strategies but strategies revolve around mech availability. A bit of a problem for the clan player base wouldn't you say? Not that this means you can't do anything, but merely you're going to see a lot more limited play styles due to the number of mechs available. This is somewhat mitigated by the omnipod system but the fact clans are missing a 20, 40, and 95 tonner muddles the pool a bit.

Edited by Blueduck, 10 January 2015 - 12:07 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Blueduck, on 10 January 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

Mist lynx isn't available except for real money. Yes, the idea was already floated in my unit to do assault push, alternate assault push, Timberwolf push, mist lynx mop up.

Again, not everyone wants to pay real money for mechs right now.



Wow, I really love how you guys discriminate about player bases around here. xD

Look at the number of clan mechs that are available for cbills. Its not exactly encouraging. The clans certainly field a large number of very good light support mechs, kitfox is candidate for best support in the game in my opinion. They possess no lights/mediums that are capable of independent scouting/hitting. That role will largely be filled by the dragonfly and Firemoth whenever they become available. The ice ferrit can sort of fill the role but his lack of JJ and missing quirks make him limited and also a good candidate to be devoured by a firestater. Not a bad mech by any means but he just doesn't quiet fill his role just yet.

Likewise the lack of clan quirk pass on the weaker mechs doesn't really help anything. Clans certainly have their strategies but strategies revolve around mech availability. A bit of a problem for the clan player base wouldn't you say? Not that this means you can't do anything, but merely you're going to see a lot more limited play styles due to the number of mechs available. This is somewhat mitigated by the omnipod system but the fact clans are missing a 20, 40, and 95 tonner muddles the pool a bit.

So do Kit Foxes. Thudders do 72; you're fast enough to zerg and with a ton more firepower. Sulfur - 2 lances go Alpha channel, 1 cuts across at the channel most the way to the ramp for ogen 2. 1 lance goes beta up to ogen1, first lance got ogen 3. All meet at Omega afterwards for tea and biscuits. Sulfur - Almost the exact same thing but 2 lances go right/Alpha gate, 1 lance Gamma gate, similar concept but everyone pushes ogen 2 just in case. Pack LBXs and SRMs - everyone runs hot on Sulfur; a cool running mech on Sulfur has a huge boost in survivability regardless of tonnage. You could do a SRM Badder too.

Ice Ferret does fine for zerging; remember the attacker likely only has 2 or 3 lights on the field at a time. Again, for light mechs that are not ECM cover/support load ballistics and SRMs. They are fast, brutal and efficient for blowing out ogens and Omega. That's a huge perk the Clans have over the IS; most our lights simply can't carry enough missiles or ballistics to be viable. We absolutely do run Shawks and Griffins in genbuster loadouts - speed ~100 or better, plenty of SRMs. When you're on defense they are phenomenal for blowing legs off lights.

This right here. I would love to be able to field something like that that's as small as the Ice Ferret. No JJs but neither does the Raven 3L. Quirked and with SRM6 cooldown I could smear an ogen in a few seconds with just 1 of them. A lance of 4 could clear all 3 ogens on their own. On defense you stay low and quiet until the enemy is about 1/2 the way to the ogens, then you start at the back and work forward. 2 shots per leg and it'll leg anything smaller than a Stalker. Runs stupid cool even on Sulfur. Run 12 of these on wave 1 and wave 2.

Here's a Kit Fox that you could run. You pack 4 of these in behind a TW/Scrow push. After the enemy is engaged they either break out from behind and cut up the side or you run the hard push up one gate and them out the other. We do this with Griffins/Shawks who go the same speed but are 25 tons heavier (and thus harder to manage in the drop deck) and carry about the same DPS and no ECM.

Try 2x TWs and 2x Ice Ferrets. Run a 12 Ice Ferret first wave to clear ogens. wave 2 is 12 TWs, mix LRMs and laservomit, go for attrition and a slow, covered push up one side. If the other team is Thudders you blow out the gate at a sprint and roll them point blank. Make sure your LRMs are *not* focusing on 1 guy but each on a different target. You want to attrition them out because you want to knock out their 'anti-zerg' wave they have for their 1st, possibly 2nd wave. Wave 3 is a 2nd 12 Ice Ferret wave focused on remaining ogens and Omega. Wave 4 is another TW wave. Bring SSRM; if your first 3 waves did their job a lot of the defenders only have a Light or two left. Cut through the lights and striker mediums they'll have left plus a couple of assaults (focus fire the assaults you see - don't get drawn into chasing squirrels because they will be *trying* to split you up to chase them) and go stomp whatever Omega is left.

The only use for a Scrow/TW dropdeck is attrition or slow zerg. That's it. All you got with that deck. Your opponent only has to learn 1 skill to beat you - SWEEP THE LEG JOHNNY. If you're a top tier comp team and can out-attrition any IS team they're likely to face that's fine.

I'm sure people will pop in and say how utterly worthless and terrible the Ice Ferret is and how non-competitive the Kit Fox is, etc. etc. That attitude is why Clans get rolled by organized IS groups. You find new uses for the tools in your box and you apply them to taking the objectives, not killing the mechs, that you need to do to win.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

I agree that the ice ferret is not terrible. Its just that he is missing some perks and omnipods that the devs said they will get to eventually. He is a nice mech and is currently the only really fast clan mech. That said, he really can't deal with a firestarter who is 10 tons lighter.

If you really really want to zerg the generator don't mess around with an ice ferret just bring 3 stormcrows and a timberwolf. This composition was one of the main reasons why I stopped playing CW for now, its just really dull to fight.

Again I agree that the Ice Ferret is not terrible but in no way would I ever want him over the stormcrow right now for something other than just taking him out for fun. This is partially due to the power of the stormcrow for his relative tons but more so that it really doesn't make sense for the clans to send their scouts off to actually scout like the IS does.

The lack of ecm and his size puts him in an awkward position right now.

And I definitely agree with you about the kitfox. He straight up rocks. No IS or clan mech can come close to what he brings in ecm and 3 ams systems. Candidate for best light in the game in my opinion.j Regardless though he is a pure support mech due to his speed.

Edited by Blueduck, 10 January 2015 - 04:43 PM.

[KhanJames]

I can say I cut way back on CW because of the current matchmaking and "maps". I would select defend on a planet that had attackers but zero attacker wins (all blue) then it would take 10 min to find a game and I would be counter attacking. And every counter attack I've gotten has been on the 2 gate map. actually considering there are only 2 maps and I get the 2 gate ice map at least 3/4 games I play not sure if its intended that way or what. And lets be honest Attacking and Counterattacking is a joke that depends way to much on either being in a clan or having a bunch of pugs actually play appropriately (the same issue in the capture game mode where most just go for kills). So IMO Clan or IS is irrelevant to the majority of the games because if you have even 2 or 3 people on attack who would rather camp/ go for kills you lose (and its funny when they deny it because you know the guy who has 2 respawns when everyone else is dead decided to screw his team).

As for why I don't attack the reason is simple for all their "OP" clan mechs are geared towards range and the CW maps give defenders long range and attackers minimal range or positions where they are almost dead after getting a single shot off. So for the clans you actually NEED at least 3 different "role" mechs just to have a chance at accomplishing a "fair" win (zerg rush for the most part is not a fair win). "Tanks" to open the gate (or in the case of the 2 game map a distraction and a lucky tank), skirmishers and/or attackers to damage/leg defender mechs, destroy turrets, and attack the minor generators. If you haven't run out of respawns you hope you have a fast mech left to rush to enemy base before they can respawn cause other wise you lose. Trying to get a workable weight balance with a viable(remote chance that with a decent team you might win) basically means using (the much beloved on the forums) at least one Timbers and/or Crows. (my usual is Hellbringer (ecm Skirmisher), Timber(tank), Mad Dog(LRM boat obviously), and Adder or Kit fox(for "speed") with a weight of (235-230) as I said I prefer to defend so I generally keep this as my lineup because weight vs speed and usefulness in either game)

As for people who complain about mechs, not sure why yall haven't figured it out but people copy each other when they see something that "dominates". when I first started playing CW there I rarely say any thunderbolts now I see at least 8 a game. Can I blame them? no. Hell I went out and spent some Cbills and got one, and yes I love it. I've found the 9s to be one of if not the best snipers in the game right now the quirks for Er PPC are ridiculous.

The reverse of the issue is for the Clan side that hasn't really found any "working" (as in able to get wins in CW playing appropriately not camping/going for kills/damage) for about half the mechs (ex- Ice Ferret, Mist Lynx for the worst offenders) and yes I realize that mist lynx is usable for "clan light" zerg rush (Which is a joke when compared to the nearly indefensible Firestarter/Spiders rushes) but I generally hate to resort to that kind of BS to win a game. Mad dog and hellbringers are really usable on defense only. Summoner and gargoyle are only ok if your only going for damage (Summoner being almost as "niche" as the Ferret)(Dire is barely useable on offence since you are dependent on your team, Warhawks can at least move at a decent speed). And as was previously said not everyone wants to pay real cash and if you have to prioritize mech purchases lets be honest which clan mechs you would go for too.

So for the most part I would guess us Clanners (or at least our Group/Clans) have significantly cut back on CW. As for not defending I wish I could say I had cut back but as I Literally got 2 actual defend (not counterattack) missions in a week (and I play at least an hour usually 2 of MWO daily (try to play CW but get pissed off after a game or 2) I cant. So Congrats on winning the initial invasion IS. It will be remembered as "almost fun". Maybe when maps or matchmaking work better there will be a new invasion.

[Tank]

They don't even attack us properly now. Had 4 games today:

1) Apathetic defense, seriously after taking positions Clanners just refused to move from them acting like a mech-defense turrets.

2) Chicken siege, after successfully braking our gates we moved on them. Apparently this confused them so munch, that they where in total disarray, unable to regroup after losing 9 mech. Match end up in a shooting gallery, where entire opposing team was looking for any cover running all the places... like headless chickens. This was hilarious, funny and unbelievably sad, for we had no challenge.

3) Yes... Third team. They failed to open the gates. Since it took them 24 mech to open Alpha gate, and no, we where not using LRMS. They just had lack of any will to fight. Ended up with shooting gallery #2.

4) The SpecOps team. Those guys where using deception (most Clan like tactics!), but in a weird fashion. They probed our gates by single mech at the time, took them a whole loot of time to take out our gates. With no change in tactics they have managed to ninja 3 gens, after witch they decided to make a final push, but... whoopty-do there had barely any mech left and time for them.

I remember few weeks ago there where organised Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon that did superb job. Now I have to fight these guys.

Untrained monkeys could have done better.

P.S. Please, real Clanners come back... I miss you...

[Abivard]

All this effort going into flimsy see through excuses would have been better spent actually learning to adapt, improvise and overcome, something far to many clan players refuse to do, instead they seem to want someone to hand them things.

The blind refusal of so many to change their tactics or play style is startling.
But when one thinks about how the Clan has always been portrayed as OP and almost unbeatable I can see why so many 'Fair weather/Easy streeters' chose clan.

Just as the FRR has always been portrayed as the inevitably outnumbered underdog, doomed to defeat, has attracted the hardcore player that strives on overcoming obstacles.

Even when you try to help them learn to adapt they refuse and instead QQ and say they are not going play until PGI makes the other kids let them win.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Tank, on 10 January 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

They don't even attack us properly now. Had 4 games today:

1) Apathetic defense, seriously after taking positions Clanners just refused to move from them acting like a mech-defense turrets.

2) Chicken siege, after successfully braking our gates we moved on them. Apparently this confused them so munch, that they where in total disarray, unable to regroup after losing 9 mech. Match end up in a shooting gallery, where entire opposing team was looking for any cover running all the places... like headless chickens. This was hilarious, funny and unbelievably sad, for we had no challenge.

3) Yes... Third team. They failed to open the gates. Since it took them 24 mech to open Alpha gate, and no, we where not using LRMS. They just had lack of any will to fight. Ended up with shooting gallery #2.

4) The SpecOps team. Those guys where using deception (most Clan like tactics!), but in a weird fashion. They probed our gates by single mech at the time, took them a whole loot of time to take out our gates. With no change in tactics they have managed to ninja 3 gens, after witch they decided to make a final push, but... whoopty-do there had barely any mech left and time for them.

I remember few weeks ago there where organised Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon that did superb job. Now I have to fight these guys.

Untrained monkeys could have done better. <_<

P.S. Please, real Clanners come back... I miss you...

Understand the predicament but CW really just stopped being enjoyable back around Christmas. Its not about winning or losing as my unit refused to do mass stormcrow rush tactics which was the easiest way to net wins; we were about 50-60% W/L against other units which was cool because everyone was having lots of fun still brawling and making cbills.

It got to the point all we were seeing was rushing or sniping and that is pretty dull. We enjoyed the brawling that existed before that but the way it is set up now it is very much rush favored on the offense and sniping on the defense which are just kinda dull. We ended up doing mass rushes our selves to try to get our names on more planets but pretty much everyone said this is not our style and its not worth winning if we have to play this way.

My unit right now voted to go back to skirmish. We're fighting each other and other IS/clan units getting ready for when they add a bit more variety to CW. We're all really looking forward to the skirmish addition for counter attacks as we think it is going to add a whole new dimension to the game.

That said if you want to fight us in skirmish let us know or alternatively if you really want to try some new strategies out in CW we can attack one of your planets if you let us know.

Edited by Blueduck, 10 January 2015 - 07:03 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Blueduck, on 10 January 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

I agree that the ice ferret is not terrible. Its just that he is missing some perks and omnipods that the devs said they will get to eventually. He is a nice mech and is currently the only really fast clan mech. That said, he really can't deal with a firestarter who is 10 tons lighter.

If you really really want to zerg the generator don't mess around with an ice ferret just bring 3 stormcrows and a timberwolf. This composition was one of the main reasons why I stopped playing CW for now, its just really dull to fight.

Again I agree that the Ice Ferret is not terrible but in no way would I ever want him over the stormcrow right now for something other than just taking him out for fun. This is partially due to the power of the stormcrow for his relative tons but more so that it really doesn't make sense for the clans to send their scouts off to actually scout like the IS does.

The lack of ecm and his size puts him in an awkward position right now.

And I definitely agree with you about the kitfox. He straight up rocks. No IS or clan mech can come close to what he brings in ecm and 3 ams systems. Candidate for best light in the game in my opinion.j Regardless though he is a pure support mech due to his speed.

I can run down a bust a leg off a Scrow far easier than an Ice Ferret, especially in a light. We put down TW/Scrow rushes on Boreal all the time. Sulfur... defending Sulfur is tough but again. Easier to run down a medium/heavy than a fast light.

*with lasers* a Ice Ferret is no match for a Firestarter. 3xSRM6 will leg a FS to death in 2 or 3 shots. I do it with a Griffin all the time; that's why we call them leg breaker builds. You've also got Streakboats. On defense a nice spread of Ice Ferrets playing at the gate and streakboat/laser Scrows or TWs back along the top of the 3 ramps going to the 3 ogens on Boreal and no light rush will ever be an issue. You follow the zerg back up shooting at the legs - don't stop, do what damage you can as they move. Your top screen will finish what you started. Defense in depth; you spread forward based on speed relative to attacker. Against a heavy rush everyone is forward. Against a light rush your mediums are mid-field, heavies/assaults back field, lights forward. You chase them back up to the people in the back row. Legity leg leg.

On attack you're not fighting anyone; you're hugging terrain and going baby turtle style to the ogens. Expect 4-6 to die before you get to the ogens. Understand we zerg ogens with spiders who have 2 MLs and 1 LL; they have a 20pt alpha. The best Firestarter build is going to have *slightly* better DPS but 50% higher heat than a 3xSRM6.

For busting ogens/omega you want the better sustained DPS and lower heat, especially on Sulfur.

I would trade Firestarters for Ice Ferrets any time, any day. You run lights in CW for a single specific expendable mission 90% of the time. Light speed, medium armor, STD engine survivability and a SRM18 package with 5 tons of ammo, all for something about the same size as a Firestarter?

If the IS could run that it would generate endless rage threads. I would leg everyone. EVERYONE. Attack or defend I'd run 3 of them and a D-DC. You'd run your 12man decks with everyone having 1 and 4-6 people having 2-3 of them. Some TDR9s, some assaults and some fast heavies/striker mediums. I could run boreal/sulfur attack/defend with 1 deck. You can run a Raven 3L over the gates, could run these over too.

Clanners think it's crap because the Stormcrow does more damage and tanks better - for attrition that's great. You blow out Ogens on wave 1 every single match without fail and suddenly the defenders options change significantly.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

MischiefSC, on 10 January 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

I can run down a bust a leg off a Scrow far easier than an Ice Ferret, especially in a light. We put down TW/Scrow rushes on Boreal all the time. Sulfur... defending Sulfur is tough but again. Easier to run down a medium/heavy than a fast light.

*with lasers* a Ice Ferret is no match for a Firestarter. 3xSRM6 will leg a FS to death in 2 or 3 shots. I do it with a Griffin all the time; that's why we call them leg breaker builds. You've also got Streakboats. On defense a nice spread of Ice Ferrets playing at the gate and streakboat/laser Scrows or TWs back along the top of the 3 ramps going to the 3 ogens on Boreal and no light rush will ever be an issue. You follow the zerg back up shooting at the legs - don't stop, do what damage you can as they move. Your top screen will finish what you started. Defense in depth; you spread forward based on speed relative to attacker. Against a heavy rush everyone is forward. Against a light rush your mediums are mid-field, heavies/assaults back field, lights forward. You chase them back up to the people in the back row. Legity leg leg.

On attack you're not fighting anyone; you're hugging terrain and going baby turtle style to the ogens. Expect 4-6 to die before you get to the ogens. Understand we zerg ogens with spiders who have 2 MLs and 1 LL; they have a 20pt alpha. The best Firestarter build is going to have *slightly* better DPS but 50% higher heat than a 3xSRM6.

For busting ogens/omega you want the better sustained DPS and lower heat, especially on Sulfur.

I would trade Firestarters for Ice Ferrets any time, any day. You run lights in CW for a single specific expendable mission 90% of the time. Light speed, medium armor, STD engine survivability and a SRM18 package with 5 tons of ammo, all for something about the same size as a Firestarter?

If the IS could run that it would generate endless rage threads. I would leg everyone. EVERYONE. Attack or defend I'd run 3 of them and a D-DC. You'd run your 12man decks with everyone having 1 and 4-6 people having 2-3 of them. Some TDR9s, some assaults and some fast heavies/striker mediums. I could run boreal/sulfur attack/defend with 1 deck. You can run a Raven 3L over the gates, could run these over too.

Clanners think it's crap because the Stormcrow does more damage and tanks better - for attrition that's great. You blow out Ogens on wave 1 every single match without fail and suddenly the defenders options change significantly.

As always I appreciate the reply. That said I must respectfully disagree very strongly. In no way is the Ice Ferret anywhere near the level of the Firstarter or stormcrow for a few reasons. Even when he functions in his niche role he is still a very limited roll compared to the IS scouts.

1) He is 10 tons heavier than the firstarter, it makes a big difference

2) Ice Ferrets weapons are largely confined to the arms making him more than a bit delicate in a light on light brawl. A streak stormcrow is a much better hunter of firestartes or other lights.

3) He has no jump jets meaning he cannot solo commando or hope to get away like a firestarter can

4) In no way does and srm 18 compete with the level of dps that a small pulse laser firestarter can doll out. That said if you put some streaks on him he could be an ok light killer but the stormcrow would still be much better.

5) He can fit a max of 4 lasers if you're running the non-prime variant, 3 if you are running the prime. He will be shredded by a firestarter 1vs1.

6) His hit boxes are bigger and he is definitely a "medium" sized mech

7) Its not the ice ferrets fault but the stormcrow and firestarter have brokenish hitboxes making them far more survivable then they should be. Again, its not the ice ferrets fault but it does make him less useful. I will take an IS XL engine with problematic hitboxes over a big boxy medium mech where the hits definitely register almost every time.

8) As highlighted in point 7 he large compared to a firestarter and not that much smaller than a stormcrow.


The ice ferret is not a terrible mech (granted his is still tier 5ish and is due for some more perks and Omni pods according to the devs) but in no way does he come close to the stormcrow or firestarter. He does serve a unique roll in the clan arsenal right now but he will not stand up to turrets and frankly the mist lynx is a much better option if you want a commando scout to sneak at the generators due to his jump jets.

I have firestarters, mist lynxs, stormcrows, and ice ferrets. I would choose the first 3 over the latter any day of the week for the reasons I outlined. He is not a terrible mech and I do have him mastered but he just can't compete on a competitive basis right now. Granted, not everything is about competition but when I'm rolling in my unit and we are storming a generator I want the mech that can stay with the group and doll out the damage which is right now the stormcrow and TW. And no mistake, this grouping is just as uberpowerful and cheap as anything the IS can throw out there.

And it is important to remember that he is only available for real money right now making him a non-option for many people.

In complete honesty having run both variants and owning 3 firestarters and 3 ice ferrets if the devs would allow it I would 100% trade you the firestarter from the IS arsenal for the ice ferret while happily throwing in the summoner as a bonus.

Edited by Blueduck, 10 January 2015 - 08:08 PM.