399 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

beerandasmoke, on 07 January 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

I thought you were trolling but I guess your serious. I guess when the projectile nerf happened and the top teams dropped the PPC they should have "learned to aim". Lol your a funny guy man. Go tell the Lords and 228 they need to learn to aim.

You said that, not me.

And if you want the real reason, here it is: they looked for and found a more optimal set up, as they always do.

So, It looks like it is I who gets to LOL, dingbat.

Edited by Mystere, 07 January 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Roadbeer, on 07 January 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

PRO TIP:

Don't wan't to get hit with PPCs at max range? Don't stand in the open.

Meta nerf complete.

You're welcome.

How the fak are we supposed to get to the gens without standing in the open?

https://imgflip.com/...mage?iid=412211

[Roadbeer]

Repasy, on 07 January 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

How the fak are we supposed to get to the gens without standing in the open?

https://imgflip.com/...mage?iid=412211

Quite easy actually, we learned how to get past that weeks ago.

Not going to tell you as, you know, you're a test tube baby.

But if the OP4 still has gens up after the first wave, as an attacker, you did it wrong.

Edited by Roadbeer, 07 January 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[Xetelian]

All mechs should get quircked up to this standard.

[MischiefSC]

operatorZ, on 07 January 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

Have not heard anybody say this...ever. In fact its actually just a constant refrain from people looking to muddy the waters with personal attacks rather than talk civilly about it.....

guess I expected better of you....

I see it all the time. Look at any Nerf clans thread. I get that you probably don't read those and when you do its mostly looking at the people calling for the Nerf, not the people arguing against. Thats just how the brain tends to work. Go read the responses in any Nerf clans or is fighting clans thread. You'll see it regularly. That is the reason for all the schadenfreude. Most of us have no real issue with a Nerf, aside from it not being needed. Only place they get used like that is comp teams vs clans, cuz they seem like they would rather quit, cry and go home than learn to adapt to weeks ago.

That's the other bit that makes this so funny. 228 started Kurita, wrecking the Davion border doing this. Day 1 of cw. I even joked that they were clearly confused and didn't get the memo that ppcs are not meta anymore. They said they make the meta. We improved from only killing 14 of them a match to about 27. The drop deck got far more common on all is vs is borders for a bit until counters developed, then strategy moved on. I even joked with lords and csj that I'd rather pug against them any day than 228 defending Boreal with 9s. They laughed and said I didn't know what I was talking about.

Huh.

So this aint new. We all absorbed the meta, used it, found the holes in it and moved on. Weeks ago. Its not the 9s thats the issue - its that 90% of the is vs clan matches were pugs, newbies and people just farming for 80 pts. Now competitive teams show up who have a solid, tested command of the tactics that win and how to use them and crush every front - and they are doing it with troll builds. Cut the 9s completely and it'll be erlls or whatever suits them. It'll be light rushes that wipe every ogen and turret plus part of omega on wave 1, then a steady assault push mixed with light/fast medium flanks that make it impossible to focus on the assaults. It'll be lights that jump the gate, leg y9u then go back before you even get to the gate.

The wall of 9s is a troll defense. It is like someone complaining about boomjags. Everyone who already dealt with this is just laughing and jeering.

[Roadbeer]

MischiefSC, on 07 January 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

I see it all the time. Look at any Nerf clans thread. I get that you probably don't read those and when you do its mostly looking at the people calling for the Nerf, not the people arguing against. Thats just how the brain tends to work. Go read the responses in any Nerf clans or is fighting clans thread. You'll see it regularly. That is the reason for all the schadenfreude. Most of us have no real issue with a Nerf, aside from it not being needed. Only place they get used like that is comp teams vs clans, cuz they seem like they would rather quit, cry and go home than learn to adapt to weeks ago.

That's the other bit that makes this so funny. 228 started Kurita, wrecking the Davion border doing this. Day 1 of cw. I even joked that they were clearly confused and didn't get the memo that ppcs are not meta anymore. They said they make the meta. We improved from only killing 14 of them a match to about 27. The drop deck got far more common on all is vs is borders for a bit until counters developed, then strategy moved on. I even joked with lords and csj that I'd rather pug against them any day than 228 defending Boreal with 9s. They laughed and said I didn't know what I was talking about.

Huh.

So this aint new. We all absorbed the meta, used it, found the holes in it and moved on. Weeks ago. Its not the 9s thats the issue - its that 90% of the is vs clan matches were pugs, newbies and people just farming for 80 pts. Now competitive teams show up who have a solid, tested command of the tactics that win and how to use them and crush every front - and they are doing it with troll builds. Cut the 9s completely and it'll be erlls or whatever suits them. It'll be light rushes that wipe every ogen and turret plus part of omega on wave 1, then a steady assault push mixed with light/fast medium flanks that make it impossible to focus on the assaults. It'll be lights that jump the gate, leg y9u then go back before you even get to the gate.

The wall of 9s is a troll defense. It is like someone complaining about boomjags. Everyone who already dealt with this is just laughing and jeering.

Truthiness is truthy.

[Harathan]

Roadbeer, on 07 January 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Truthiness is truthy.

Truthageddon?

[Nightshade24]

Tolkien, on 07 January 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

I take this as an admission that you don't actually play CW, or at the very least don't play it against clan teams. Entire waves of SCR's are a thing that happens *all the time*.

As to your math, deal with it - the clans no longer own the 'standing around in the open at long range' fight. Instead, check out the math as to what your ER medium laser storm crows can dish out.

Clanners learned some very bad habits over the half year of pay-gated pay to win supremacy. Now that it's being dialed back and the inner sphere is being buffed up to equivalence, you are going to have to unlearn a lot of bad habits, like milling around in the open where long range fire is a threat.

Lets calculate the sins ere'.

"I don't agree with you so you must be a noob or never play" -logic

"You must have never played against clans" -logic. I am a clanner so I actually see the full team when I click tab and also due to the IS quirk supremacy I play in clan verse clan quite a bit,

"ER medium lasers are better to large lasers in every way" -logic

"Well I don't have proof but stormcrow and/or timberwolf is better then thunderbolt because clans!!!1!" -logic

"Clans are pay-gatted pay to win" is that why you see Mist lynxes running everywhere seal clubbing your thunderbolts?... oh wait.

"You are going to have to unlearn everything you know about battletech because you are a noob" -logic. Yep. sure. I have to learn that a 3 er ppc thunderbolt can beat a 2 lBX 20 2 LBX 10 direwolf withen 200 meters range on sulfur.

"Milling around in the open is bad, m'kay" -logic. Yes. Because tell me, when we don't mill around in the open the thunderbolts suddenly doesn't attack us and it's all sunshine and rainbows?

7 sins for 677 letters in 131 words. Congratulations.


ER medium laser spam? that must be a joke. Because out of the option for 3 er medium lasers + 1 heatsink and 1 large pulse laser.

The large pulse lasers win by range, fire rate, dps, damage, and heat.
A single LRM 20 has the same heat as a er medium laser.
and the er medium laser does nearly the same heat as a IS large laser even though it doesn't have the same range or damage.

How often do you see anyone run more then a few medium lasers?

Have you ever seen a direwolf run 8 along with there ballistics?
or did you ever see a mist lynx carry 4?
Nova carrying anywhere near the legendary 12 without it being a trial?


Well regardless of your responses to the above questions you do have the shadowhawk for a fast medium mech (which can carry jumpjets) which could boat 3 er large lasers and have some quirks then making it better then the "Stormcrow Er medium boat" (which shouldn't be more then 3 er medium lasers if the guy is sane).

I post a perfectly logical stasticial evidence to my claims

a 65 tonner is out peforming literally every clan mech in ranged combat. including the 80, 85, and 100 ton mech.

This 65 tonner is out peforming all other PPC boats the IS have as well and has better quirks then the mechs that were famous for carrying 2 or 3 ppc's or er ppcs.



This mech only produces 7.5 heat. That is so little heat that if for some reason this mech is standing in terra therma and is shooting at another non thunderbolt ppc mech on alpine peaks that the heat is still on the thunderbolts side.

Roadbeer, on 07 January 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

PRO TIP:

Don't wan't to get hit with PPCs at max range? Don't stand in the open.

Meta nerf complete.

You're welcome.

Would help if most of the clan mechs were not so slow due to being unable to remove there engines...

Oh and that velocity bonus to the thunderbolt sure makes it easy to dodge ppc's.... not.

[InspectorG]

When the big bag Thud 9s shoots at you from the distance,

Y U no Step left or right?

[Nightshade24]

InspectorG, on 07 January 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

When the big bag Thud 9s shoots at you from the distance,

Y U no Step left or right?

because CW does reward people who do not take out the base as an attacker or refuse to defend it as a defender?

[InspectorG]

Nightshade24, on 07 January 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

because CW does reward people who do not take out the base as an attacker or refuse to defend it as a defender?

That has to do with thunderbolts...how???

[Verenix]

Let's get this out of the way.....These laser arguments from BOTH sides are really hallow.

Trying to compare lasers against ERPPC's (in the way of replacing the ppc with lasers) is like comparing Apples to Planes. "I really like apples, but i'm terrified of flying"

ERPPC is a one shot hit. Lasers are over a duration. You CANT substitute ERPPC's with lasers! So yes, the clans in this respect are right, none of their lasers compare to the ERPPC....BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO MECHANICALLY DIFFERENT WEAPONS!

Now you're going to complain on how op they are? Well i'm not going to say how some have figured it out....but clans have WAY more OP than IS will ever get....EVEN with all these quirks.

Let's look at easy to read OP Build counts.

IS have 2 strong op mechs from the quirks: T-bolt 7 med pulse & T-bolt ERPPC.

Count for IS op = 2

Clans have the following:

Stormcrow 5 streak 6 OR srm 6 106 kph
Madcat 6 streak 6 OR srm 6 89 kph
Direwhale 6 UAC 5
DireWhale 2 ERPPC 2 Gauss <----Think IS have forgotten this build? And clans complain of 3 ERPPC's.....>.>

Clan OP count = 4

This is just off the top of my head. I only own 1 type of clan mech so I don't know the others just like that, but I'm SURE some of you know others.

Just from these numbers Clan already double the IS op count.

(To those thinking 6 UAC 5 direwhales suck in CW you haven't been doing it right)

So please clans get out of this thread. Take this argument alongside mischiefSC's post and you guys should just take your weak arguments and go home packing.

Maybe now you're actually forced to think up of a strategy to beat our ONE SINGLE OP MECH!

[Nightshade24]

InspectorG, on 07 January 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

That has to do with thunderbolts...how???

there is only two directions in CW, forward, and backwards.

Forward is towards the thunderbolt spam and objectives, backwards is retreating.

There is no left and right.

[InspectorG]

?????????

[Repasy Cooper]

Verenix, on 07 January 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

Madcat 6 streak 6 OR srm 6 89 kph

I agreed with you up to this point...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=165&l=stock

DO YA EVEN SMURFY BRO???

I won't criticize ya too hard, because I've heard a lot about this notorious 6x s-srm6 Mad Cat from a lot of you IS folks. You probably just heard another of your bat-sh*t crazy comrades with their hate-blinders on ranting about clan op-ness that was already nerfed away loooooong ago. They probably are the same ppl who use the ERML card which you already shot down yourself (hence my confusion... are you smart or not smart, I CAN'T TELL?!?!? o.O)

I tell ya what. If you can make a Mad Cat on Smurfy that carries 6x s-srm6, I'll gift you $50.00 worth of MC.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kyynele]

MischiefSC, on 07 January 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

I even joked with lords and csj that I'd rather pug against them any day than 228 defending Boreal with 9s. They laughed and said I didn't know what I was talking about.

This must be why the lords are currently using the same 9S defence. Because it's bad and vulnerable to easy strategies that completely break it, not because it's absurdly heat efficient, capable of massive front loaded pinpoint damage both in long range and in point blank, with high hardpoints requiring minimal exposure.

Last time tonight, our 4-man faced a lord 6-man defending Boreal. Each lord, save for one died or ejected twice during that match, yet at no point did we see a lord in any other mech than a Thunderbolt. And we've faced them a few times, either they play the troll deck all the time, or it is their serious deck. Likewise for 228 and a couple of other comp teams. Your facts might be in need of an update.

I'm sure by now all competitive players are very aware of how OP the 9S currently is, and everyone also knows that it will likely get nerfed sometime soon. So, it's best to exploit it to the max while you still can. Our unit isn't a serious CW unit, so we haven't switched sides to abuse it. But we still play the 9S in the public queues. And it is brutal.

I get it, you want to fight the CW even here on the forums, and there's no room for objectivity. I obviously posted this because clams aren't strong enough, despite our unit kicking the same amount of ass when we played Davion a week back. So, carry on.

[Repasy Cooper]

Kyynele, on 07 January 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

I'm sure by now all competitive players are very aware of how OP the 9S currently is, and everyone also knows that it will likely get nerfed sometime soon.

Oooooo yea, all dem tryhards got a t-bon*r for a reason eh? Can't wait to see those snobs knocked down a peg or two.

[Davers]

Nightshade24, on 07 January 2015 - 05:22 PM, said:

Would help if most of the clan mechs were not so slow due to being unable to remove there engines...

Timberwolves, Stormcrows, and Lokis are not what I would call slow mechs.

[Verenix]

Want a TL;DR?

IS have T-bolts with 3-4 ERPPC's.

Clans have Gauss/ERPPC Direwhale.

The direwhale is harder to shoot, but you have 50 pinpoint as opposed our 30 (which we can only alpha max 3 times) YOU can keep on alpha'ing A LOT more.

You clans still have a massive advantage over IS. The 9S strategy is easily countered, as MischiefSC said.....it was countered shortly after it was released....You guys are just the low-elo players that have still not figured out how to fight it.

QQ Clans This argument is over.

Edited by Verenix, 07 January 2015 - 07:28 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Verenix, on 07 January 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

Let's get this out of the way.....These laser arguments from BOTH sides are really hallow.

Trying to compare lasers against ERPPC's (in the way of replacing the ppc with lasers) is like comparing Apples to Planes. "I really like apples, but i'm terrified of flying"

ERPPC is a one shot hit. Lasers are over a duration. You CANT substitute ERPPC's with lasers! So yes, the clans in this respect are right, none of their lasers compare to the ERPPC....BECAUSE THEY ARE TWO MECHANICALLY DIFFERENT WEAPONS!

Now you're going to complain on how op they are? Well i'm not going to say how some have figured it out....but clans have WAY more OP than IS will ever get....EVEN with all these quirks.

Let's look at easy to read OP Build counts.

IS have 2 strong op mechs from the quirks: T-bolt 7 med pulse & T-bolt ERPPC.

Count for IS op = 2

Clans have the following:

Stormcrow 5 streak 6 OR srm 6 106 kph
Madcat 6 streak 6 OR srm 6 89 kph
Direwhale 6 UAC 5
DireWhale 2 ERPPC 2 Gauss <----Think IS have forgotten this build? And clans complain of 3 ERPPC's.....>.>

Clan OP count = 4

This is just off the top of my head. I only own 1 type of clan mech so I don't know the others just like that, but I'm SURE some of you know others.

Just from these numbers Clan already double the IS op count.

(To those thinking 6 UAC 5 direwhales suck in CW you haven't been doing it right)

So please clans get out of this thread. Take this argument alongside mischiefSC's post and you guys should just take your weak arguments and go home packing.

Maybe now you're actually forced to think up of a strategy to beat our ONE SINGLE OP MECH!

"Stormcrow 5 streak 6 OR srm 6 106 kph
Madcat 6 streak 6 OR srm 6 89 kph
Direwhale 6 UAC 5
DireWhale 2 ERPPC 2 Gauss <----Think IS have forgotten this build? And clans complain of 3 ERPPC's.....>.>"

1) streak? ye-nope... Those are not over powered at all.

They take forever to reload, (especially streak 6's) and have a slower movement speed meaning AMS can pick more off them off then an IS Streak. Ontop of that this build is very ammo dependent and is only ever used in CW specificly when they die because 5 or so firestarters are circle jerking the team.

It's kinda mandatory to run a streak build however it's only a short term sollution to the game as when the bigger boys start attacking you, you are pretty defenseless.

You also forget streaks spread a lot and you can't aim where they are. This isn't that much of a problem when firing at lights because if you take there leg out, good job. you took there main defense out.
You took there arms off? good job. they now can't hit as hard back
You took the ct out? yay it's dead.
you took it's st out? yay it's still dead.

Etc... when it's an atlas your firing at. all you do is tickle it.

Also a "Mad Cat" timberwolf can't even mount 6 SRM 6's... it can do 4 max... and guess what? it's only on the timberwolf S torsos. So you lost 2 tons per 2 missile slots. (so 4 SRM 6's = 4 tons gone)
I rarely see a timberwolf mount missiles in general let alone 4 of them.


Direwolf 6 UAC 5 build isn't that good in CW. In pug matches it's fine though on conquest/ assault/ skirmish.
You need to drop a UAC 5 or two for some lasers... ironically a few medium lasers already is hotter then all your ballsitics... so it quickly becomes a hot build quickly as you remove energy for ballistics.

2 ER PPC 2 Gauss is the only competitor to the Thunderbolt 9S. But the problem is the direwolf is more ammo dependent in longer term CW matches.

The thunderbolt 9S can still out damage the direwolf in DPS... 65 ton verse 100 ton = 65 ton has all the advantages besides armour. Seems fair....

Also a direwolf in your line up?

100 tons taken. that leaves 140 left.

Timberwolf? that's a 75 ton mech, that leaves 65 tons left between two mechs....

that can be 1 Kitfox and 1 Adder or 1 Mist lynx and 1 Ice ferret.

Those 4 mechs are not that good in CW. Kitfox is most likely the best and you could go down 5 tons to just have 2 kitfoxes however the problem here is that the only reason it's good in CW is for the ecm and tripple AMS....

AMS can't save anyone against ER PPC's and mechs can still be hit by ER PPC's when they are in ECM cover, also if they hit you you get emp effect on you..

Also the thunderbolt and firestarter can easily out maneuver a direwolf and beat it in a brawl (unless it has A arms... but no one is going to use 1 ballistics and 3 energy hardpoints in the arms for a direwolf without using anything bigger then a machine gun or without using a ppc)

Also there is more "OP" is mechs...

Well by OP i mean suitable to fight clanners...

And post the quirkening... pretty much every IS mech can compete....

Rather that be atlas, stalker, jager, king crab, locust, firestarter, trebuchet, cicada , etc....

The most 'competitive' mechs the clans have. (timberwolf and stormcrow running all energy) still can't compete with a good half of IS mechs...

The thing is quite a few people want to have the 'field mod' ability on clan mechs... pretty much removing it's omnitech properties so they can mount what ever engine they want, endo steel, ferro, etc...
Plenty of clanners also want to use IS weapons on their mechs as well. I wounder why

Repasy, on 07 January 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

I agreed with you up to this point...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=165&l=stock

DO YA EVEN SMURFY BRO???

I won't criticize ya too hard, because I've heard a lot about this notorious 6x s-srm6 Mad Cat from a lot of you IS folks. You probably just heard another of your bat-sh*t crazy comrades with their hate-blinders on ranting about clan op-ness that was already nerfed away loooooong ago. They probably are the same ppl who use the ERML card which you already shot down yourself (hence my confusion... are you smart or not smart, I CAN'T TELL?!?!? o.O)

I tell ya what. If you can make a Mad Cat on Smurfy that carries 6x s-srm6, I'll gift you $50.00 worth of MC.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I can do that can you buy me the hellbringer for me? (I already got the ice ferret pack)

Davers, on 07 January 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

Timberwolves, Stormcrows, and Lokis are not what I would call slow mechs.

Stormcrow isn't that fast for a medium. Most IS mediums can go 100 kph to 150 kph

For the timberwolf, sure it isn't that slow but most people agree it's huge engines it's downfall, if it had a clan XL 300 or 320 you will see a new whole side to the timberwolf that you never saw before...

Hellbringer isn't that fast for its' tonnage either.

You call the kitfox, mist lynx, adder, nova, summoner, warhawk, or direwolf fast?

Verenix, on 07 January 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

Want a TL;DR?

IS have T-bolts with 3-4 ERPPC's.

Clans have Gauss/ERPPC Direwhale.

The direwhale is harder to shoot, but you have 50 pinpoint as opposed our 30 (which we can only alpha max 3 times) YOU can keep on alpha'ing A LOT more.

You clans still have a massive advantage over IS. The 9S strategy is easily countered, as MischiefSC said.....it was countered shortly after it was released....You guys are just the low-elo players that have still not figured out how to fight it.

QQ Clans This argument is over.

yes... 65 ton IS = 100 ton Clan

you can put 3 thunderbolts in 1 line up but you can't fit 2 direwolfs in 1 line up. (1 direwolf line up forces the use of 2 lights and a heavy, or another combination like that)