399 replies to this topic

[operatorZ]

Mr Beefy, on 08 January 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

I am not claiming you are advocating such things..... but this is where it can lead to, and most often does lead to. It has PGI chasing its tail.... it fills the forums up with nerf this and that threads.

Maybe I am just of a different breed, when I see a mech or a line of the same mechs being used by anyone, comp players or newbies... and they are stomping my team into the ground, I don't come to the forums to start a thread for a nerf. It could take hours in ones day to complain about it, and ask, beg, cry for nerfs. I try to find ways to counter such players, and if I find a way to do it, I try to get my team to follow suit and pound the other teams "golden goose" so hard, that they will start to not want to bring it on the field any longer, or not in such high amounts. This same thing happened when clans first came out for cash only and I was only playing IS mechs vs. Clans. While many complained they needed nerfed bad, and claimed they was OP, I was in game finding ways to stomp them just as hard. I would win some, and I would lose some...but never wanted clans to be nerfed, or felt they needed to be. Its called a challenge, and I rise to it every time I drop, even if I am the underdog.

just so everyone knows I never have started a "nerf" thread...but I have contributed to some...overall I think this game has come a long way towards overall balance in the short time I have been here.

Yes I agree, Good pilots will always find a way to overcome this months flavor or tactic..true

When the "clans are OP" threads started, I read the evidence, compared my own experience and decided that yes indeed some clan mechs are OP. That didn't mean I didn't take full advantage of said OP'ness...I loved my TBR S with 4SRM6 and UAC 20 with plenty of ammo...the nerfs killed that build...because not enough room for ammo..did I complain...no

I simply moved on..(sadly to laser vomit, which I really don't enjoy, all hail DAKKA )..because

The TBR-S was overpowered without the locked jump jets....clearly (or at least my experience showed me that)

It's not that I personally have issues with TDR or TBR or SCR or whatever..its just simply there are some mechs that through different reasons represent what I would call a "unfair advantage" I find the current quirks on the TDR to be one example.

This issue ties directly to player retention..which I believe ties directly to the health of the game overall...its all connected.

IMHO PGI needs to reduce the number of clearcut ..."take this mech only" choices (read: SCR, TBR, TDR) ...if not just for game diversity but for the player attraction and population as well.

Left unchecked, unbalanced mechs are a detriment to the game as a whole...and just because you may not share that opinion of the mech being discussed is no reason to not engage in a discussion of that mech, or denigrate those who do. (I'm not saying this is you at all, just example)

The forums are the place for this discussion...anybody that wants to not discuss it doesn't have to click on the threads..

I understand people's frustration with these threads...a lot of the posts are not constructive and are annoying (I hope I'm not one)

thanks for not flaming me

[Repasy Cooper]

Pfft! So people were whining before about Clan's 90% win rate in CW, saying it's not balanced... Yea, I can agree with that, if they win THAT much there's something wrong with the balance...

Now the IS's win rate vs Clans is 90%... yup, that's balanced, no nerf required. Suuuuuuuuuuure...............

Your logic is clearly balanced too.......... yuuuuup, Zero logic, Zero balance. That's balance.....

[Basilisk222]

Podex, on 08 January 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

No nerf needed. Just go out the other gate.

read the rest of it. especially this bit:

"Course this is pretty much constrained to boreal as I've NEVER had it happen on the other map, at least not with as much success."

Not complaining, just stating strategy."

I don't want it nerfed. It doesn't need a nerf.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 08 January 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[MischiefSC]

operatorZ, on 08 January 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

Ok...some good points on strategy and meta here from Mischief...I agree

Ok...and your typical troll posts from both sides...as expected...Vass nice to see you out and about..you to bob

But here is my question:

This same argument was held in reverse not so long ago about SCR and TBR's ....I like the TBR... not so much the SCR (full disclosure)

In this argument most the people piloting these mechs (clanners) said "wtf IS players quit whining getgud"

and the players complaining about the TBR and SCR said "look at the numbers no other IS mech comes close, its straight data"

So here we are again....only in reverse...

So let me try again as a clanner....

I admit that the TBR and SCR are in fact OP compared to their top tier IS counterparts based on the fact that you cannot build a IS mech with the same firepower, armor, hitbox's, speed, mobility (most people should be able to agree on this). That is my definition of OP.

That being said...would someone show me any other 65 ton mech that can unleash a similar amount of PPFLD damage as the 9S with its quirks, with similar DPS, range, no ammo?

That still keeps its armor and relative speed intact.

If there is a "not happening" answer to this question....I submit that the quirks on the 9S make the ERPPC build OP and should be reduced...

Just like the SCR and TBR need some work.....

That's my opinion...(flame suit on)

Some good points. I would not say op for any of those mechs. The Scrow and TW are each overall best-in-class mechs for their weight. Since the clans don't have a lot of options it actually helps; I pugged yesterday with people who made horrible mech choices. Less of an issue for clans. The 9s might be best-in-class energy sniper. I have one I use when defending on boreal - otherwise I swap it for a uac jag or dragon.

The big issue here is that since Clans came out they have been winning the long range poke war. Now the best poke mech is arguably a is mech. Its not op but it is arguably best for long range sniping when stacked with a group of similar mechs. With 2 ams on each they can rain fire without fear of uncoordinated lrm fire.

As more clan mechs come out and people have more bad choices to pick from then groups of Clanners will be less dangerous overall. Comp groups will still stack what works best regardless of faction. Until clans adapt to something other than the poke game (you have heavies that can keep up with striker mediums ffs) they will roll people with 9s. You'll adapt to it and they wil switch tactics and go back to winning all the time. That's not the 9s, its comp teams and people not wanting to adapt how they play.

[ApolloKaras]

Repasy, on 08 January 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Pfft! So people were whining before about Clan's 90% win rate in CW, saying it's not balanced... Yea, I can agree with that, if they win THAT much there's something wrong with the balance...

Now the IS's win rate vs Clans is 90%... yup, that's balanced, no nerf required. Suuuuuuuuuuure...............

Your logic is clearly balanced too.......... yuuuuup, Zero logic, Zero balance. That's balance.....

90% of all Stats are pulled from the butt.

What was done with the "Op clan mechs ?" nothing really. They have fixed the Jump Jets.... That's not a game breaking change. All of a sudden a mech that was quirked with the er ppcs from the beginning all of a sudden is now beating the clan mechs?

Look at the current dynamic, the Lords, 228, QQ have consolidated into FRR. They are pushing the clan front back. Your issue is not the mech.... It's the pilot you're playing against. But that seems hard for people to process. They'd rather scream from the hill tops about the mech. You could also Wait for PGI to balance contracts again and give a little love to Clan Wolf etc.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Repasy, on 06 January 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

Now Ghost Bear's gone extinct

Uh we are still here. With the most planets. WTH are you talking about extinct?

[operatorZ]

MischiefSC, on 08 January 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Some good points. I would not say op for any of those mechs. The Scrow and TW are each overall best-in-class mechs for their weight. Since the clans don't have a lot of options it actually helps; I pugged yesterday with people who made horrible mech choices. Less of an issue for clans. The 9s might be best-in-class energy sniper. I have one I use when defending on boreal - otherwise I swap it for a uac jag or dragon.

The big issue here is that since Clans came out they have been winning the long range poke war. Now the best poke mech is arguably a is mech. Its not op but it is arguably best for long range sniping when stacked with a group of similar mechs. With 2 ams on each they can rain fire without fear of uncoordinated lrm fire.

As more clan mechs come out and people have more bad choices to pick from then groups of Clanners will be less dangerous overall. Comp groups will still stack what works best regardless of faction. Until clans adapt to something other than the poke game (you have heavies that can keep up with striker mediums ffs) they will roll people with 9s. You'll adapt to it and they wil switch tactics and go back to winning all the time. That's not the 9s, its comp teams and people not wanting to adapt how they play.

NERF Comp Teams!!!!!



just joking....

ok I've gone about as far as I can go here, enjoyed the discussion... when it was there....carry on and many good battles to you all

[hybrid black]

kf envy, on 07 January 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

well when the cheesebolt get an head shot the 1st timber an blows the mouse ears off the other. you know the timber take an 50% loss in fire power an any extra DSH that were there to in the ST.

wait why would you have LRMS on a TW????

Repasy, on 08 January 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Pfft! So people were whining before about Clan's 90% win rate in CW, saying it's not balanced... Yea, I can agree with that, if they win THAT much there's something wrong with the balance...

Now the IS's win rate vs Clans is 90%... yup, that's balanced, no nerf required. Suuuuuuuuuuure...............

Your logic is clearly balanced too.......... yuuuuup, Zero logic, Zero balance. That's balance.....

Yah the win rate is up over clans, but that has to do with the best players in the game all on the IS side fighting the clans

[Podex]

Kilgorin Strom, on 08 January 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

read the rest of it

I did. It wasn't really directed at you. My point was that tactics always trump power. Nothing is truly OP unless a hard counter cannot be found. From what I understand, people aren't looking for a counter, they just want to walk in, guns blazing. Sometimes that doesn't work. The 9S can dish out damage, but so can a lot of things. Out run it. Out maneuver it. Don't trade shots with it. It has weaknesses, find them and exploit them. At least to me, that is the best part of CW -- tactics. The less I shoot, the better my chances.

Maybe that's also why I hate piloting assaults.

[Zolaz]

Space Furries complaining about mechs being OP. lol I suppose they should read the posts by Russ saying that the Thud isnt OP by their numbers.

[hybrid black]

MischiefSC, on 08 January 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Some good points. I would not say op for any of those mechs. The Scrow and TW are each overall best-in-class mechs for their weight. Since the clans don't have a lot of options it actually helps; I pugged yesterday with people who made horrible mech choices. Less of an issue for clans. The 9s might be best-in-class energy sniper. I have one I use when defending on boreal - otherwise I swap it for a uac jag or dragon.

The big issue here is that since Clans came out they have been winning the long range poke war. Now the best poke mech is arguably a is mech. Its not op but it is arguably best for long range sniping when stacked with a group of similar mechs. With 2 ams on each they can rain fire without fear of uncoordinated lrm fire.

As more clan mechs come out and people have more bad choices to pick from then groups of Clanners will be less dangerous overall. Comp groups will still stack what works best regardless of faction. Until clans adapt to something other than the poke game (you have heavies that can keep up with striker mediums ffs) they will roll people with 9s. You'll adapt to it and they wil switch tactics and go back to winning all the time. That's not the 9s, its comp teams and people not wanting to adapt how they play.

no good players have AMS

[Basilisk222]

Woops.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 08 January 2015 - 12:29 PM.

[hybrid black]

Kilgorin Strom, on 08 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

Lets see, why have LRM's on a TW... hmm... well:

A. LRM's in wide open spaces hurt things, a lot, because generally people rush in the open!
B. SRM builds are insanely hot when paired with laser vomit.
C. with 4 max SRM 6's the TBR can shotgun for 24 at 6 tons + ammo, streaks are 12 tons + ammo, useful up to 360 meters, you COULD run 3 mlas for pinpoint damage instead for 3 tons, runs about as hot.
D. LRM's can hi stuff you can't see, and the high mount point on the TW makes it good at lobbing them.
E. PPC's, Gauss, and LL's play well with LRM. since LRM has a tendency to strip armor.
F. LRM's effective range allow it to hit enemies your allies are tracking from further away, allowing you to help before you actually arrive.
G.Fleeing opponents generally have to tank one last salvo to get away.

no wounder clans are losing lol

[Basilisk222]

hybrid black, on 08 January 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

no wounder clans are losing lol

Yeah I completely screwed the pooch there. tried to fix it, it's double the damage.

also, it's not completely stupid to run them.

I've had really good success with LRM in general on boreal. It's usually clean damage, and most of my targets die.

I run smaller LRM packs though, and generally only use them to supplement damage. I find the SRM way too hot to depend on.

Edited by Kilgorin Strom, 08 January 2015 - 12:32 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Martis Gradivus, on 06 January 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

If they were that easy to defeat, LORDS and 228 wouldn't field 8+ at a time, they'd take something better.

But hey, Vassago, you'll never admit to anything as being OP for IS vs Clans, so expecting you to actually be fair and honest would be asking too much.

Expecting anything but childish troll posts from him would be to expect too much.

As far as the 9S being "EZ mode" well, if it is I stil don't care. I hate nerfs.

[Harathan]

Kilgorin Strom, on 08 January 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Yeah I completely screwed the pooch there. tried to fix it, it's double the damage.

also, it's not completely stupid to run them.

I've had really good success with LRM in general on boreal. It's usually clean damage, and most of my targets die.

I run smaller LRM packs though, and generally only use them to supplement damage. I find the SRM way too hot to depend on.

Ignore Hybrid. He believes he has the final say about what represents "good" or "pro" in this game.

[Basilisk222]

Harathan, on 08 January 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Ignore Hybrid. He believes he has the final say about what represents "good" or "pro" in this game.

I kinda figured.

Funny thing is, it's the one thing I've got to unseat the PPC boat camping me. He's gotta break line of sight to make the rain stop. But, you know, LRM's can't be useful in any way whatsoever.

[Podex]

Kilgorin Strom, on 08 January 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

The TDR has the turning circle of a planet, doesn't use ppc's in the arms so it can't strike well low, and isn't quick. All you have to do is keep moving, and stay out of its sight. Bam. Nerfed.

Bingo. And this is why you don't see them used much in IS/IS battles for anything other than tanking damage. There are much better mechs out there.

[Basilisk222]

hybrid black, on 08 January 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

no good players have AMS

hybrid black, on 08 January 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

wait why would you have LRMS on a TW????

You're a competitive genious, figure it out.

[hybrid black]

Kilgorin Strom, on 08 January 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

You're a competitive genious, figure it out.

I just like to hear [Redacted] players reason on why they do things, speculation in TS on why gets out of hand sometimes and needs to clarified.

Edited by John Wolf, 08 January 2015 - 12:56 PM.
Constructive. No negative comments towards players.