26 replies to this topic

[TyGeR STD]

After searching I haven't seen any recent post about this topic. How many people would be in favor of a set of II-C mechs? I believe it would a quick way to increase the number of playable mechs for clan players. In doing so it would not involve the full development of a new mech from the ground up. The main art assets and modeling are all here. A small redesign of the load outs may be needed. Even if PGI did a straight copy and paste of the IS hard points, gave the mechs a fixed Clan engine, but left the ability to add or remove DHS, FF, Endo as the IS have I feel they would work well and would not be over powered. This system would be a fair trade off being they are not omni mechs. There are several current mechs in game that could be used as the II-C mechs but the Jenner, Hunchback, Orion, and Highlander would be a set that fit into the current time line and would have at least 3 variants. The highlander would fill in a 90 ton slot that they clans do now currently have.

Edited by TyGeR STD, 12 January 2015 - 04:20 PM.

[Thoman Coston]

good idea TyGeR

[Stealth Fox]

Just one issue, And it is alright, I STILL say this cause it was what it was introduced to me as as well.. I have been told they are 2 C.. The II is the roman Numeral. But HELL YES I wanna see some damned IICs up in this *****!

[TyGeR STD]

Yes, you are correct that they are called 2C Mechs.

I had another thought about these Mechs today. If implement, add the II-C (2C) as a conversion like adding or removing endo, FF or DHS. When you add the 2C conversion it strips the mech of all weapons, engine, and modules. It adds the a fixed clan XL and the appropriate hard points. If at any point you wanted to go back to the IS version you can remove the 2C conversion and re-add the IS hardware.

It seems like a style that would fit into the lore of battle tech. It would also give players a way to go from an IS faction to a clan faction, (or from clan to IS) with a limited number of Mechs in there stable.

[Finlos]

I would like to see this and I would definitely pilot a Highlander IIC.

Mechs already in-game that have a IIC variant include (in no particular order): Locust, Shadow Hawk, Orion, Griffin, Commando, Hunchback, Highlander, and Jenner in the current timeline.

[Metus regem]

As much as I would love to see the IIC mechs, they come with a whole slew of issues; chief among them is how to balance them…

If the IIC variants are all Battlemechs, like there I.S. counter parts, that would mean that they would have engines that could be changed, options for Clan DHS (If they do not already have them), Clan XL engines (If they do not already have them), seven slot FF and ES (If they do not already have them) along with the smaller and lighter clan weapons. Or do they treat them as Omnimechs, thus limiting what can be done with them?

If they go the Battlemech route, than they render the Omnimechs near useless overnight, as why would you take a 75 ton Timber Wolf Omnimech. When you could take a 75 ton Orion IIC Battlemech that you could get extra free weight by dropping the engine size down? Why take a Dire Wolf, when you could have a King Crab IIC? And yes they do exist, a large stock pile of them left with Kerensky…

[Emilio Lizardo]

I agree that they should be included as variants of the Inner Sphere chassis (provided they're in the same weight class), with simple examples being the Jenner and Hunchback IICs.

Would the modification drive people crazy? Yes, but it's clan tech. It should be very powerful, regardless. The hard point/customization options may need to be more limited to prevent nerfing omnimechs. Or, alternatively, they could give the IIC (2nd line) mechs significant disadvantages such as c-bill/xp penalties or slow actuators/turning to reflect them being on the low end of the technician caste's maintenance priorities.

[Jeon Ji Yoon]

I was actually just logging on to post this as a suggestion to help give clanners a easier gen rush chance. Either give us some IIc mechs or lessen the restirction on engine size. Having some flex in engine size could make the ice ferret and mist lynx fast enough and give more room for weapons in ones like the gargoyle.

[Quaamik]

I know this will offend the purists (those that favor TT and cannon), but IIC variants could be easily balanced.


- either:

---Make them Omni mech variants with the same restrictions / benefits / drawbacks
or
--- Make them non Omni, with the same advantages / drawbacks / restrictions as IS mechs

If they are used by Clans only, and are Omnis, give them all Clan tech

If they are IS, or used by both (reflecting recapture of production facilities and espionage), give the a mix of both techs. For example, the chassis that can swap engines only use IS engines. The Omnis cant swap engines. Maybe even limit which weapons tech by chassis or location (for example a IIC mad dog can use Clan energy weapons, but only IS missiles). Yes, some thought would have to go into it, but game balance always requires thought.

Edited by Quaamik, 11 January 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Metus regem]

Quaamik, on 11 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

I know this will offend the purists (those that favor TT and cannon), but IIC variants could be easily balanced.


- either:

---Make them Omni mech variants with the same restrictions / benefits / drawbacks
or
--- Make them non Omni, with the same advantages / drawbacks / restrictions as IS mechs

If they are used by Clans only, and are Omnis, give them all Clan tech

If they are IS, or used by both (reflecting recapture of production facilities and espionage), give the a mix of both techs. For example, the chassis that can swap engines only use IS engines. The Omnis cant swap engines. Maybe even limit which weapons tech by chassis or location (for example a IIC mad dog can use Clan energy weapons, but only IS missiles). Yes, some thought would have to go into it, but game balance always requires thought.

Good thoughts, but the IIC mechs are battle mechs upgraded by the clan, using clan tech and are clan only, for example:

Locust IIC
Jenner IIC
Hunchback IIC
Shadow Hawk IIC
Orion IIC

There are others, but most of them are directly related to IS mechs, usually with in +/- 10 tons of the IS version. What makes them hard to balance here in MWO is they would be battle mechs with all the clan goodies. Clan XL engines, 7 crit Endo and FF, 2 crit DHS, smaller and lighter clan weapons...

Do not get me wrong I would love to have my Kodiak or Stone Rhino, but I can see the balance problems with them.

[Discohydra]

TyGeR STD, on 08 January 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Yes, you are correct that they are called 2C Mechs.

I had another thought about these Mechs today. If implement, add the II-C (2C) as a conversion like adding or removing endo, FF or DHS. When you add the 2C conversion it strips the mech of all weapons, engine, and modules. It adds the a fixed clan XL and the appropriate hard points. If at any point you wanted to go back to the IS version you can remove the 2C conversion and re-add the IS hardware.

It seems like a style that would fit into the lore of battle tech. It would also give players a way to go from an IS faction to a clan faction, (or from clan to IS) with a limited number of Mechs in there stable.

Seconded. This would allow an IS player to easily "covert" if they're willing to clans. It'd be a great way to tool to clans if you don't want to sell your horde of IS mechs, and it'd make a convenient "half-step" to the clans for those that like a more affordable option with a familiar platform to use.

[Repasy Cooper]

TyGeR STD, on 08 January 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

Yes, you are correct that they are called 2C Mechs.

I had another thought about these Mechs today. If implement, add the II-C (2C) as a conversion like adding or removing endo, FF or DHS. When you add the 2C conversion it strips the mech of all weapons, engine, and modules. It adds the a fixed clan XL and the appropriate hard points. If at any point you wanted to go back to the IS version you can remove the 2C conversion and re-add the IS hardware.

It seems like a style that would fit into the lore of battle tech. It would also give players a way to go from an IS faction to a clan faction, (or from clan to IS) with a limited number of Mechs in there stable.

I'm not sure about the conversion idea, only for the fact that technically, these are different mech chassis. They may be heavily influence by IS chassis, but they are quite different. That's just my opinion though, the devs could like your idea and roll with it and I'd be ok with it. I just wanna see some IIC mechs period.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I would love to have a HighlanderIIC. That mechs did not work well for me as an IS mech but add Clan-Tech and it gets better.

[JadeTimberwolf]

I would love to see the IIc Mechs, simply because outside of the Timber Wolf my top favorite Mechs come from the IIc Mechs, namely the Locust IIc, Griffen IIc, Shadowhawk IIc, Rifleman IIc and Warhammer IIc. of which only the IS Warhammer and Rifleman are not currently present in the game.

In fact I had checked to see which IIc Mechs have their IS versions currently in the game and my count came to 9 Mechs that have IIc versions 8 of which are in current production and deployment by the Clans and I would suggest that if the IIc versions are brought in lets start with what the Devs already have models for in the game and that would be the following:

Lights:
Jenner IIc, Locust IIc, Commando IIc

Mediums:
Griffen IIc, Hunchback IIc, Shadow Hawk IIc

Heavies:
Orion IIc

Assaults:
Highlander IIc

Yes these Mechs by Lore are deployed in the Occupation Zone as Second-Line and Planetary Defense Mechs so yes the Inner Sphere soldiers are seeing them just the Omni-Mechs are move visible.

EDIT: I would like to add that I think that the IIc Mechs should not be customization past their standard and variant designs except to accommodate existing Variants beyond what is implemented. I say this because based on lore these Mechs rarely if not never received post production customization, exception being when they were used in Solaris matches.

Edited by JadeTimberwolf, 11 January 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

I know the Warhammer IIC will haunt me - and I will regret my decision - but we need simple MOAR Mechs

[Revis Volek]

So we want mixed tech basically? Or would there be IIC for Clan and IIC for IS? Where do we draw the line? Are these mech allowed in CW on either side but the normal variants are not?

That is ways down the road and would throw CW under the bus for the time being (since it Clan v IS). I'd love to see them eventually but the Normal IS mechs (even with quirks) would pretty much go in the garbage.

Also thats a whole can of worms as far as balance is concerned...i think there are a few more things that are more important before we get new mechs.

UI 2.something that works
CW fixes
Clan quirks and a decent CLAN LIGHT!

[JadeTimberwolf]

IIc would be clan, though it is an IS designation meaning Second Generation Clan Tech. it's not mixed tech either it is Clan tech based on Star League designs. IS usage of these Mechs would be a few years away as any captured tech would be taken apart and reversed engineered.

[SuomiWarder]

I don't use Clan mechs, but IICs would be an easy, quick way to increase the number of mechs Clanners have available. The main issue I see is that they do not normally have 3 variants. Maybe they could get around that by have three version with different fixed engines or something.

[JadeTimberwolf]

SuomiWarder, on 12 January 2015 - 09:17 PM, said:

I don't use Clan mechs, but IICs would be an easy, quick way to increase the number of mechs Clanners have available. The main issue I see is that they do not normally have 3 variants. Maybe they could get around that by have three version with different fixed engines or something.

As a clanner I am all for these mechs not being modifiable or having the 3 variants that others have, and if we want them to be modifiable have the c-bill cost be double what it is for other mechs.

[Android5000]

I would love to see this put into the game. Lock the engine hardpoints and endo or FF if it has it. Only custom thing you can put on it is clan weapons ammo and equipment. Just treat it as another mech variant just cost more cbills or MC compared to the other. Easier for PGI to implement than a whole new mech. Not really a change for IS on the community warfare side of the game but those people can use the IIc mech in public matches. Anything to get some new mechs on the clan side of CW or public matches.