653 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Let me switch endo and FF on my Clan mechs while you are at it.

Truth is though that the Endo on the Clan mechs is charged to players when they buy the mech.

Oh yeah, fix Gauss Rifles too (as long as we are wishing for stuff). They have always worked fine in MechWarrior and would in MWO as a normal long range weapon. Just give it a 6 second recharge and let the players decide if they want to use it. Making Gauss Rifles into a first person shooter sniper rifle as PGI has done is not called for and not supported by the damage they do. It's not according to the TT description of Gauss Rifles either.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightfoot, on 08 January 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

Let me switch endo and FF on my Clan mechs while you are at it.

Truth is though that the Endo on the Clan mechs is charged to players when they buy the mech.

Oh yeah, fix Gauss Rifles too (as long as we are wishing for stuff). They have always worked fine in MechWarrior and would in MWO as a normal long range weapon. Just give it a 6 second recharge and let the players decide if they want to use it. Making Gauss Rifles into a first person shooter sniper rifle as PGI has done is not called for and not supported by the damage they do. It's not according to the TT description of Gauss Rifles either.

or perhaps, respect the OP, and stick to the topic? Please?

[Bishop Steiner]

Moenrg, on 08 January 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

However, until we have viable alternatives, I will never agree with ANY nerf to either the TW or the SC. Like it or not, the smallest Clan mech that can go one of one with a firestarter and hope to come out on top (given two equal opponents) is the stormcrow. Nerf this and what, you need a Mad Dog to effectively fight a firestarter. It's bad enough you need an extra 25 tons of clan mech to compete, do we really need to make it 30 tons?

Clan lights are far too slow and most have far less firepower than a firestarter, The Ice Feces can keep up with it (almost), but it's anemic firepower forbids actually killing anything. The Nova could kill it if close, but no firestarter would stand there and allow it, it will simply use it's speed and/or put a pebble between itself and the Nova (which OC the nova can't possible shoot over unless it jumps and loses ALL cooling on it's energy build.....), so before you nerf the SC, we need some alternatives. Hell I'd rather install an instakill button in all IS mechs (i.e. target a clan mech, press f7 and it instantly blows up) before seeing any more clan nerfs.

hence the idea of buffing the second class citizens.

The Idea is to flatten the curve, which means bringing up the lesser, and reducing the superior.

Fact is, we can't bring all mechs up to the level ofthe TW. If we did, the IS would be a cinder in seconds. (I've run the 12 TW CW drops..... IS lost every time. Badly. Even good units. And we a lot of us were still in our first mech when Omega went down).

Summoner, Nova, Clan Lights, all need to be brought up. But the TW and SC need to come down a notch. Unlocking endo is a good first step to bring the weak ones up some. Though I think the Lights will need serious quirking, since most have endo, and it's speed, size, etc that are their issues.

[Winters Bear]

I would like to see Endo Steel for all clan mechs as an options as well and I would not care if the Crits were locked

[Lily from animove]

Moenrg, on 08 January 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

However, until we have viable alternatives, I will never agree with ANY nerf to either the TW or the SC. Like it or not, the smallest Clan mech that can go one of one with a firestarter and hope to come out on top (given two equal opponents) is the stormcrow. Nerf this and what, you need a Mad Dog to effectively fight a firestarter. It's bad enough you need an extra 25 tons of clan mech to compete, do we really need to make it 30 tons?

Clan lights are far too slow and most have far less firepower than a firestarter, The Ice Feces can keep up with it (almost), but it's anemic firepower forbids actually killing anything. The Nova could kill it if close, but no firestarter would stand there and allow it, it will simply use it's speed and/or put a pebble between itself and the Nova (which OC the nova can't possible shoot over unless it jumps and loses ALL cooling on it's energy build.....), so before you nerf the SC, we need some alternatives. Hell I'd rather install an instakill button in all IS mechs (i.e. target a clan mech, press f7 and it instantly blows up) before seeing any more clan nerfs.

However, this is all a fruitless conversation, PGI released it's plans for January and February and you'll note that Clan Quirks are nowhere in sight.

is that? my 24 srm adder would like to date your Firestarter.

[Kain Demos]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

is that? my 24 srm adder would like to date your Firestarter.

I prefer 4 x C-SSRM6 for my light-hunting Adder.

[Lily from animove]

Kain Thul, on 08 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

I prefer 4 x C-SSRM6 for my light-hunting Adder.

not good, too easy to break line of sight with radaderp and prevent locking, also they sread a load more, works only well when the opponent twists and shows his side, but if hw would face your frontally, those s-srms spread and you need ages to destroy a light mech. srrm's if you cna aim well are a lot better. but still adder is capable of killing lights extremely well, unless you coem with crappy cerml who burn ages for laods of heat and have no hitreg

[Deathlike]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

not good, too easy to break line of sight with radaderp and prevent locking, also they sread a load more, works only well when the opponent twists and shows his side, but if hw would face your frontally, those s-srms spread and you need ages to destroy a light mech. srrm's if you cna aim well are a lot better. but still adder is capable of killing lights extremely well, unless you coem with crappy cerml who burn ages for laods of heat and have no hitreg

Do you not use Artemis with your Streaks?

LOS is not an issue.

[Lily from animove]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Do you not use Artemis with your Streaks?

LOS is not an issue.

actually i still don't like how they spread and so i don't use them.

[Pariah Devalis]

You suggest a change that could potentially make the Nova and Summoner worth their weight? And that would push the Hellbringer and Mad Dog into a slightly more equal footing next to the Timbergod?

Here. Take an upboat.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 January 2015 - 03:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

actually i still don't like how they spread and so i don't use them.

i feel the same way about SRM6s, which is why I run 4s or asrms4s on pretty much everything.

[Kuritaclan]

Deathlike, on 08 January 2015 - 03:06 PM, said:

Quote

With Endo I'm sure we'd at least see SOME Summoners in CW. You could just barely run 3 with room left over for a Kit Fox.

Summoners are durable platforms... but they are not quite the firing platforms like the Timberwolf. Name a build that the Timberwolf would not do better in... (and I can only think of one or two in a relatively small niche way).

I think it would give at least an option more, while the TBR is a better plattform over a SMN, - 2TBR/1SCR/1ADR Dropdeck would hurt as much as a 3SMN/1KFX dropdeck since the SMN is likly more durable than a SCR. I think i would like to see more SMNs out there.

[Kain Demos]

Lily from animove, on 08 January 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

actually i still don't like how they spread and so i don't use them.

While the fact that a certain % of them go for the legs sucks if you're shooting at fresh big 'mechs I find it quite nice when going up against the little guys. Seeing them run for their life once they see your loadout is always fun too.

[Pjwned]

I would rather see standard structure and ferro fibrous armor be more desirable so that the solution is not only benefitting clan mechs, and this would also make locked upgrades less of a hassle for clan mechs; I wouldn't vehemently argue against more options for at least some clan mechs though.

Edited by Pjwned, 08 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Dagorlad13]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

and again, unless we turn all the clan mech s into laservomit, that accomplishes what? Make no mistake, I definitely think pulse lasers in particular are too dang hot, but clan balance issues go a heck of a lot deeper than JUST heat.

Again, that does nothing to put the Summoner or Nova in the same ballpark as the TW or SC.

We have "laser vomit" Banshees, Jesters, Firestarters, hunchbacks and others in the IS, so it will not matter if there are a few on the Clan side as well. Really, I love my Summoner, but what really hurts it is the heat that was added to the jump jets and that could be resolved by reducing the JJ heat penalties on mechs that have fixed JJs.

[Brody319]

I don't think any Clan chassis would become suddenly OP if you gave them all the ability to swap FF, Endo, or heat sinks really..

[Kain Demos]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 January 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

And I have always called for minor nerfs. But like most people, I must assume you see the world thru a filter...things that you agree with, or don't affect you, get overlooked, things you don't like become magnified.

I happen to be all over all the posts about the Thunderbolts for instance, though in many case I was using my Clan Acct at the time.


and again, unless we turn all the clan mech s into laservomit, that accomplishes what? Make no mistake, I definitely think pulse lasers in particular are too dang hot, but clan balance issues go a heck of a lot deeper than JUST heat.

Again, that does nothing to put the Summoner or Nova in the same ballpark as the TW or SC.

Laser vomit is very popular clan side because of how ****** all the other weapons are.

Clan ballistics (besides gauss): Do I even need to discuss this? Everyone knows why these are inferior.
LRMs: You can smash PUGs with these but generally thats it. Clan LRMs can be used on a wide variety of mechs due to their lower weight but yet you still don't see anyone who knows what they're doing trying to use them on someone else who knows what they're doing. Not a very good weapon system.
CERPPC: 10 damage for 15 heat. Slow projectile, bad hitreg. Not very popular these days.

So that leaves the most viable clan builds as pure laser vomit or a mixure of laser vomit and SRMs/SSRMs or laser vomit + gauss.

Laser vomit is popular on clams because its our best way to deliver damage. A lot of 'mechs that people say "suck" could be made better with some simple omnipods added to the game that would let them do the smaller laser vomit well--I'm looking at you Adder and Ice Ferret.

[Kuritaclan]

Kain Thul, on 08 January 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Laser vomit is popular on clams because its our best way to deliver damage. A lot of 'mechs that people say "suck" could be made better with some simple omnipods added to the game that would let them do the smaller laser vomit well--I'm looking at you Adder and Ice Ferret.

And KFX and Mist Lynx and so on. xD - Well 8E Clanmechs beside the fact that they are slower than IS wouldn't be that great with given heat of Lasers - so in the end adding such omnipods are ok for more alpha but not dps wise. Maybee it would give the Ice Ferret some good punch, but on the other side it is a medium mech with that tonnage used you could get even better mechs in a dropdeck.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 08 January 2015 - 04:23 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

To solve the unceasing tide of laservomit, one does, indeed, need to make the Clan ballistics and C-ERPPC more worthwhile in taking in smaller quantities. However, without unlocking endosteel as an option, the tonnage simply is not there in the majority of the mechs to properly equip them. It really would require both approaches to make the Clan players happy with our options at hand.

That said, either option would certainly help, and I would hesitate to say one is more important than the other. They seem deadlocked as equals in my mind.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 08 January 2015 - 04:29 PM.

[Brody319]

for ballistics,
Ac2s 1 pellet
Ac5s 1 pellet
Ac10 2 pellets
AC20 3 pellets.

would vastly improve them personally.

not much you can do for LRMs.