653 replies to this topic

[Violent Nick]

Makes you wonder what brand of crack someone in the PGI office was on when they decided no ferro and endo for the lesser mechs. It was obviously more blue magic than ground rat droppings.

[Metus regem]

Violent Nick, on 13 January 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Makes you wonder what brand of crack someone in the PGI office was on when they decided no ferro and endo for the lesser mechs. It was obviously more blue magic than ground rat droppings.

Well it goes back to TT and FASA really... the "lesser" Clan mechs, never had it in TT, and simply, due to how TT works, they didn't need it.... Mind you, this is an area, where the Summoner really shines as a mobile striker, something the Timber Wolf does not do as well...

[Bishop Steiner]

Violent Nick, on 13 January 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Makes you wonder what brand of crack someone in the PGI office was on when they decided no ferro and endo for the lesser mechs. It was obviously more blue magic than ground rat droppings.

Metus regem, on 13 January 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Well it goes back to TT and FASA really... the "lesser" Clan mechs, never had it in TT, and simply, due to how TT works, they didn't need it.... Mind you, this is an area, where the Summoner really shines as a mobile striker, something the Timber Wolf does not do as well...

Also a lot of the old FASA designs were intentionally not perfect. To represent the fact that military weapons are rarely made by the soldiers, but by companies and bureaucrats, who worry about cost, etc.

Most of the 3050 field kits had unintentional oversights, and bad designs to add to the flavor of the game, something that doesn't translate well to a PvP video game. Most of the 3055 designs were bad too, to represent the lack of knowledge and understanding of this new tech. It's why for the civil war era both got "Upgrades" where they refined the old 3050 and 3055 designs.

But some things like Endo is not something you can swap on a whim. Which is why the Summoner stayed as is until eventually the Grand Summoner was designed, with Endo, form the start.

Andi Nagasia, on 13 January 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

whether its unlocking Endo(im not saying i support FupDup)
or unlocking Fixed Non-DHS Equipment, i do think its the right path,
as it will let players with Tonnage restricted Lesser Clans,

2.5 extra tons would help my nova, -some leg armor thats:
3DHS, 3More Ammo, a larger Targeting computer?

we'll convert you. Eventually. As with unlocking JJs and such, you still have to give up tonnage, and part of the design, to come close (And thus you are still inferior to a mech with endo and non locked JJs, etc), whereas with Endo, you get to keep the tonnage for jumping and still free up 2.5 tons on your Nova, and 3.5 on my Summoner. Without losing their leapfrog identity.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 January 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

Also a lot of the old FASA designs were intentionally not perfect. To represent the fact that military weapons are rarely made by the soldiers, but by companies and bureaucrats, who worry about cost, etc.

Most of the 3050 field kits had unintentional oversights, and bad designs to add to the flavor of the game, something that doesn't translate well to a PvP video game. Most of the 3055 designs were bad too, to represent the lack of knowledge and understanding of this new tech. It's why for the civil war era both got "Upgrades" where they refined the old 3050 and 3055 designs.

But some things like Endo is not something you can swap on a whim. Which is why the Summoner stayed as is until eventually the Grand Summoner was designed, with Endo, form the start.


we'll convert you. Eventually. As with unlocking JJs and such, you still have to give up tonnage, and part of the design, to come close, whereas with Endo, you get to keep the tonnage for jumping and still free up 2.5 tons on your Nova, and 3.5 on my Summoner. Without losing their leapfrog identity.

And that is why I have such an issue with Endo being an upgrade option on IS mechs, sometimes the differance between two versions of an IS mech is just Endo Steel. Other times it could just be an engine swap like between two of the Raven chassis...

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 13 January 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

And that is why I have such an issue with Endo being an upgrade option on IS mechs, sometimes the differance between two versions of an IS mech is just Endo Steel. Other times it could just be an engine swap like between two of the Raven chassis...

It was something I fought tooth and nail against being allowed to do in CB. Because it is essentially impossible.

Oh well. Whiny power gamers win as usual.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

It was something I fought tooth and nail against being allowed to do in CB. Because it is essentially impossible.

Oh well. Whiny power gamers win as usual.

Yes, and it makes me a sad Ghost Bear to see it....

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 13 January 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

Yes, and it makes me a sad Ghost Bear to see it....

makes me even sadder in the transitions from FASA to FanPro to CGL, that the Ghost Bear lost it's 6 legs to become a giant space polar bear.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

makes me even sadder in the transitions from FASA to FanPro to CGL, that the Ghost Bear lost it's 6 legs to become a giant space polar bear.

I keep telling myself it could be worse, they could have retcon'ed that it was Ghost Bear and not the Jags that got wiped out....

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 13 January 2015 - 01:54 PM, said:

I keep telling myself it could be worse, they could have retcon'ed that it was Ghost Bear and not the Jags that got wiped out....

we're too warm and cuddly to get wiped out.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

we're too warm and cuddly to get wiped out.

Out of all of the clans I think Ghost Bear was the most mentaly balanced of the lot, even the wolves were a little nuts.... crusaders in warden clothing and all...

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 13 January 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

Out of all of the clans I think Ghost Bear was the most mentaly balanced of the lot, even the wolves were a little nuts.... crusaders in warden clothing and all...

Nova Cats were OK... for a bunch of Hippy Stoners.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Nova Cats were OK... for a bunch of Hippy Stoners.

I often forget about them... just like the crazy cultist... Goliath Scorpion or some such... The ones that made the deep dive power suits that became elementals...

[Andi Nagasia]

i would like to see my StarAdders but its ganna be a wail, if ever, but i have hope,

Bishop Steiner, on 13 January 2015 - 01:31 PM, said:

we'll convert you. Eventually. As with unlocking JJs and such, you still have to give up tonnage, and part of the design, to come close (And thus you are still inferior to a mech with endo and non locked JJs, etc), whereas with Endo, you get to keep the tonnage for jumping and still free up 2.5 tons on your Nova, and 3.5 on my Summoner. Without losing their leapfrog identity.

Very True, ill agree that it has its merits but i would still like to see some equipment unlocked,
as it could help in areas that Endo cant= KFX(S, 2AC2) ADR(Flamer) MLX(JJ CAP),
but Endo would help some others= NVA, SMN, MDD, WHK, GAR,

so in conclusion i will support your Endo Crusade,
but i am still an Unlock Locked Loyalist!

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 13 January 2015 - 09:18 PM.

[Tombstoner]

Been thinking this topic over with ya'alls input and have arrived at... just give clan mechs the option like SI, but make them pay 2x IS price. This is not a game breaking change. it would add some need boost in selection frequency in a min max environment. besides in TT it didn't mater.... in MWO it does. That difference alone should justify the change.

[FupDup]

One random inkling I've had, that I'm not sure of if I actually like it or not, would be to allow Omnipods to "convert" themselves to Battlemechs, using the same screen as buying a normal tech upgrade.

It would naturally cost a decent bit of money, with the amount being whatever we feel like (probably a lot more than the Dubs tax at least). The results of this conversion would be a fully unlocked "core," with the negative consequence of your Omnipods being locked to their stock assortment for that variant. Of course you could convert right back into an Omnimech to regain Omnipod flexibility, but then your base config would get locked down again.


Seems fair that if you don't want to deal with the weaknesses of Omnis, you also lose their main advantage (swappable hardpoints) in the process.


As said above, I don't know whether I "like" this idea in my post or not, or if it would even be good, it's just something that popped into my head that I felt like sharing.

Edited by FupDup, 14 January 2015 - 02:07 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 14 January 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

One random inkling I've had, that I'm not sure of if I actually like it or not, would be to allow Omnipods to "convert" themselves to Battlemechs, using the same screen as buying a normal tech upgrade.

It would naturally cost a decent bit of money, with the amount being whatever we feel like (probably a lot more than the Dubs tax at least). The results of this conversion would be a fully unlocked "core," with the negative consequence of your Omnipods being locked to their stock assortment for that variant. Of course you could convert right back into an Omnimech to regain Omnipod flexibility, but then your base config would get locked down again.


Seems fair that if you don't want to deal with the weaknesses of Omnis, you also lose their main advantage (swappable hardpoints) in the process.


As said above, I don't know whether I "like" this idea in my post or not, or if it would even be good, it's just something that popped into my head that I felt like sharing.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 14 January 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

[Lily from animove]

FupDup, on 14 January 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

One random inkling I've had, that I'm not sure of if I actually like it or not, would be to allow Omnipods to "convert" themselves to Battlemechs, using the same screen as buying a normal tech upgrade.

It would naturally cost a decent bit of money, with the amount being whatever we feel like (probably a lot more than the Dubs tax at least). The results of this conversion would be a fully unlocked "core," with the negative consequence of your Omnipods being locked to their stock assortment for that variant. Of course you could convert right back into an Omnimech to regain Omnipod flexibility, but then your base config would get locked down again.


Seems fair that if you don't want to deal with the weaknesses of Omnis, you also lose their main advantage (swappable hardpoints) in the process.


As said above, I don't know whether I "like" this idea in my post or not, or if it would even be good, it's just something that popped into my head that I felt like sharing.

in that case I ould ES + FF my nova prime, with 4 JJ's only (because thats totally enoug), and put the rest into a poopload of engine and engine heatsinks.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 14 January 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

One random inkling I've had, that I'm not sure of if I actually like it or not, would be to allow Omnipods to "convert" themselves to Battlemechs, using the same screen as buying a normal tech upgrade.

It would naturally cost a decent bit of money, with the amount being whatever we feel like (probably a lot more than the Dubs tax at least). The results of this conversion would be a fully unlocked "core," with the negative consequence of your Omnipods being locked to their stock assortment for that variant. Of course you could convert right back into an Omnimech to regain Omnipod flexibility, but then your base config would get locked down again.


Seems fair that if you don't want to deal with the weaknesses of Omnis, you also lose their main advantage (swappable hardpoints) in the process.


As said above, I don't know whether I "like" this idea in my post or not, or if it would even be good, it's just something that popped into my head that I felt like sharing.

Well, which mechs would benefit the most?

Whale Prime? 8 lasers and 2 Gauss is pretty standard. Though....there is the amusing thought of going STD, Endo and then putting two gauss rifles in the same ST (on that one Dakka variant). More seriously, up engine at the cost of Endo.


Nova Prime could make use of it. Grab Endo, up engine to move 100, laserboating all along the way. Nova S wouldn't be too bad either, but not quite as nice. The cost of MGs.


I can't think of other optimal ones at the moment....but it would be a nice idea for the most part.

[FupDup]

Mcgral18, on 14 January 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

Well, which mechs would benefit the most?

Whale Prime? 8 lasers and 2 Gauss is pretty standard. Though....there is the amusing thought of going STD, Endo and then putting two gauss rifles in the same ST (on that one Dakka variant). More seriously, up engine at the cost of Endo.


Nova Prime could make use of it. Grab Endo, up engine to move 100, laserboating all along the way. Nova S wouldn't be too bad either, but not quite as nice. The cost of MGs.


I can't think of other optimal ones at the moment....but it would be a nice idea for the most part.

I just noticed that the TBR-S comes with a ballistic in each side torso...convert to Battlemech, drop engine, add dual Gauss.

Okay, that pokes a hole in the idea.

Although this raises a different question: Is this a problem with certain mechs/chassis getting luckier than the rest, or is the idea itself bad? In theory, less crazy stock hardpoint layouts wouldn't be OP'd by this. It might also raise questions about the effectiveness of Clan guns themselves, which are somewhat kept in check by the Omnimech restrictions (excluding everybody's favorite outliers of course).

The worms have been sufficiently unleashed from their can...

Edited by FupDup, 14 January 2015 - 02:20 PM.