108 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Thunderbolt 9S can mount 2 quirked ERPPCs on high-mounted hardpoints that allow it to shoot over obstacles.

The Catapult K2 can mount 2 quirked PPCs on high-mounted hardpoints that allow it to shoot over obstacles.

They both weigh 65 tons. Same podspace, same speeds.

They can each mount 2 ballistic weapons.

_________________

• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 generate more heat than the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a shorter range than the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a slower muzzle velocity than the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a 90m deadzone that the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs don't have.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a longer cooldown than the Thunderbolts ERPPCs.

________________


Why would anyone mount PPC's on a Catapult? It seems like the Catapult is useful ONLY for dual-ballistics (2 AC/20 or 2 Gauss)...

Edited by Prosperity Park, 11 January 2015 - 09:30 PM.

[Brody319]

K2 was obsolete the second it didn't get any PPC quirks at all. Right now I think it only has velocity.

Thunderbolt should give its PPC quirks to the K2 and the Awesome 8Q and 9M.

Then give it some general energy quirks.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

PPC is making more heat then ER PPC? lol. Quirks suck so much.

[EgoSlayer]

Prosperity Park, on 11 January 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

The Thunderbolt 9S can mount 2 quirked ERPPCs on high-mounted hardpoints that allow it to shoot over obstacles.

The Catapult K2 can mount 2 quirked PPCs on high-mounted hardpoints that allow it to shoot over obstacles.

They both weigh 65 tons. Same podspace, same speeds.

They can each mount 2 ballistic weapons.

_________________

• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 generate more heat than the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a shorter range than the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a slower muzzle velocity than the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a 90m deadzone that the Thunderbolt's ERPPCs don't have.
  
• The PPCs on a Catapult K2 have a longer cooldown than the Thunderbolts ERPPCs.

________________



Why would anyone mount PPC's on a Catapult? It seems like the Catapult is useful ONLY for dual-ballistics (2 AC/20 or 2 Gauss)...

You're applying facts and logic to a situation that doesn't involve much of either

[Felicitatem Parco]

Brody319, on 11 January 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

K2 was obsolete the second it didn't get any PPC quirks at all. Right now I think it only has velocity.

Thunderbolt should give its PPC quirks to the K2 and the Awesome 8Q and 9M.

Then give it some general energy quirks.

The K2 has a 20% Velocity boost and a 10% heat reduction (resulting in 9 heat/shot). The TDR-9s has a 15% velocity boost on a weapon that already has a 100m/s speed advantage, and a 50% heat reduction (resulting in 7.5 heat).

I have no idea why the K2 got such weak boosts considering the boosts given to the Flamer-ERPPC sniper 9S

[AntiCitizenJuan]

They just overdid it.
The 9S should be a good ERPPCer but not so good people only run 3 ERPPC and definitely not as good as an AWS 9M.

IMO scale the heat reduction back by 15% and boost the medium lasers a bit so people run 2ERPPC and MLs
Then boost the 9Ms heat reduction by another 5-10%

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 11 January 2015 - 09:34 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 11 January 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

They just overdid it.
The 9S should be a good ERPPCer but not so good people only run 3 ERPPC and definitely not as good as an AWS 9M.

IMO scale the heat reduction back by 15% and boost the medium lasers a bit so people run 2ERPPC and MLs
Then boost the 9Ms heat reduction by another 5-10%

OR...

... don't give ERPPC boosts to Flamer mounts...

[xXBagheeraXx]

K2 has been dead for some time. Ive only got ONE build that works decently and its the old PPC/gauss build. other than that, its pretty much dead.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Prosperity Park, on 11 January 2015 - 09:35 PM, said:

OR...

... don't give ERPPC boosts to Flamer mounts...

Flamer quirks would be* trash. The problem is its overquirked.

I think my suggestion is reasonable. It's definitely too good right now.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 11 January 2015 - 09:38 PM.

[Brody319]

Prosperity Park, on 11 January 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

The K2 has a 20% Velocity boost and a 10% heat reduction (resulting in 9 heat/shot). The TDR-9s has a 15% velocity boost on a weapon that already has a 100m/s speed advantage, and a 50% heat reduction (resulting in 7.5 heat).

I have no idea why the K2 got such weak boosts considering the boosts given to the Flamer-ERPPC sniper 9S

Because the popular meta build for it, was like twin gauss, or 2 AC10s with Medium lasers.

Basically people changing its role entirely from lore. In lore it should have 2 PPCs, 2 medium lasers, and 2 machine guns. Thats it. and it got jipped because people dided it wrong.

[Felicitatem Parco]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 11 January 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Flamer quirks would be* trash. The problem is its overquirked.

I think my suggestion is reasonable. It's definitely too good right now.

No, no, no... miscommunication.

What I meant was that tthe 2 high-mounted Flamer mounts on the Thunderbolt should not offer any Quirks to ERPPCs mounted there. The Thunderbolt 9S should get MASSIVE ERPPC quirks... but only on the Right Arm.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Ran mine with 2 ppcs 2 large lasers and 18 doubles XL300. Was a resonably good mech back then.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Prosperity Park, on 11 January 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

No, no, no... miscommunication.

What I meant was that tthe 2 high-mounted Flamer mounts on the Thunderbolt should not offer any Quirks to ERPPCs mounted there. The Thunderbolt 9S should get MASSIVE ERPPC quirks... but only on the Right Arm.

Yeah but doing location specific quirks is really going to make people really assmad.

Only one I can think of that would actually be cool would be a La Malinche mouth Flamer that melted the **** out of people

[Brody319]

This was my build before the quirk pass.
K2

[Alistair Winter]

As someone said, the K2 has been obsolete for some time. The nail in the coffin was the torso twist nerf back in early 2013, I think. The Jagermech was always a better platform for AC20's and gauss rifles, as it should be. But due to the min-max metagame of MWO, dual PPCs were never a big deal on mechs without jump jets.

The whole point of the CPLT-K2 is to spam PPCs fast enough to maintain high DPS despite its low alpha strike. As such, the TDR-9S quirks would have been perfect for the K2, but they gave it projectile speed, which is the absolute worst quirk you could have given it, except for a flamer range bonus.

I wish it was hard to explain why PGI hates the Catapult so much, but unfortunately it fits neatly into a simple pattern of power creep.
Look at the 8 first mechs in the game. Atlas, Catapult, Hunchback, Jenner, Awesome, Dragon, Centurion and Commando. With the sole exception of the Jenner, these mechs have pretty much all been made obsolete by newer mechs. Atlas versus King Crab, who wins? Awesome vs Victor, who wins? Catapult vs Thunderbolt, who wins? Commando vs Firestarter? Dragon vs Timberwolf? Hunchback vs Shadowhawk? Centurion vs Storm Crow?

Your opinion may differ. The explanation is either ignorance on PGI's part or a cynical business decision. I tend to go for the latter, but there's arguments to be made for the former as well.

TL;DR: As a CPLT pilot for the past 2 years, I've come to acccept that PGI hates that mech. If we're lucky, they'll give us more medium laser buffs.

[Aiden Skye]

The 9S puts PPC's on all other mechs, clans and more so IS way in the backseat. Its way out of balance with anything else that wants to mounts ERPPC's and even outdoes standard PPC's on most chassis. If you want to use PPC's there is no reason to run it on anything but a 9S. And I do not think that is right.

At least the k2 is way sexier than the Thunfknugly.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 11 January 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

You also missed the fact that the Catapults 2 PPCs are spread far apart causing issues at some ranges while the Tbolt carries 2 side by side than the third will be off kilter some.

9s has better spread when it fires.

[Fate 6]

Even if the K2 and TDR has exactly the same quirks the K2 would still be worse because 1) arm mounted instead of torso mounted PPCs and 2) TDR hunch is the best hunch I've seen in terms of being able to shoot over hills with extremely minimal profile - in fact the TDR is so good at hill sniping that you can hide behind terrain hitboxes and still snipe while being immune to incoming fire (tested on Alpine).

I agree that the TDR is fine with those ERPPC quirks if they didn't affect ERPPCs in the torsos. Component specific quirks would make balancing them much easier, although to be fair the TDR-9S is really the only mech that abuses general mech quirks with that shoulder mount.

[Brody319]

I agree quirks should be component restricted. Would GREATLY improve the build and chassis viability.

[Bishop Steiner]

Prosperity Park, on 11 January 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

The K2 has a 20% Velocity boost and a 10% heat reduction (resulting in 9 heat/shot). The TDR-9s has a 15% velocity boost on a weapon that already has a 100m/s speed advantage, and a 50% heat reduction (resulting in 7.5 heat).

I have no idea why the K2 got such weak boosts considering the boosts given to the Flamer-ERPPC sniper 9S

Blame the lads at NGNG who Russ listens to. Certain interested parties favor a 2x AC10, 4x ML K2, and so the initial quirks were for that. Since the Catapult was still more popular than the THUD; by their really poor reasoning on assigning tiers, it had to be better.

>SMH