186 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Krivvan, on 15 January 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

One of the issues with this game is that the core gameplay, mechanics, and challenge very much attract competitive players who play games such as DOTA, Starcraft, CS:GO, and etc. You also have people who want to play the computer version of CBT. You cannot mix these people together to play against each other, that's why leagues need to exist (but they can't because population).

Put leagues on top of the public queues. Christen that section "Solaris" and hand it over to the eSports crowd.

But, keep leagues out of CW. Leave that section to the people who want to play the computer version of CBT, play war and conquest, play politics, and play dirty ( ).

It's really not rocket science.

Edited by Mystere, 15 January 2015 - 11:24 AM.

[Basilisk222]

DarthRevis, on 15 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

IF any 12 man with the SA tag is seen doing this they will be dealt with accordlingly.


I find it hard to believe that ALL the 12 mans are like this and i know for a fact WE are not.

This is nothing else then a over generalization about the comunity because you are to butt hurt to come to any other conclusion.

IT HAS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIME THAT CW IS FOR GROUPS!

I'm so sick and tired of this bs.....I dont even care to pander to these people who cant read a set of patch notes or even understand a game mode and whine when they lose. RustyBolts, if you cant deal with other people being able to group up in a mode made for people to group up then you need to head back to the public queue. There are 3 other modes for you to play HOWEVER you THINK the game should be played.

I concur with this, even as a PUG. and I've played with SA, I ENJOY PLAYING WITH SA.

As a pug you must accept that you are a freelance merc, you take orders, and you do your best to work with the team.

You win or lose in this mode as such, any gloating or team bashing should be dealt with by the leaders of that group. If for some reason a team acts with poor language, tactics (TK for instance), or intends entirely to seek injury to their fellow man in CW. If they fly a banner, let that banner know of this person's misconduct. If it is supported, word will spread as such. If not, the representative will be reprimanded.

There is no reason not to respect each other. Play hard, but be civil in your relations with your fellow pilots and especially your enemies. We are not here to damage our ranks with our fellow clans or houses, and we are not here to do anything but battle for who should rule the inner sphere. Bad players and good players are both things destined to occur, you can never become truly good until you learn all of the ways in which to be bad. We were all there once, respect effort, and seek to improve, do not shame the inexperienced.

We set the precedence for this game's future, it is our duty to respect and welcome new players, and to challenge our seniors if we have them. We cannot welcome people effectively to our home if we must persuade them that they must ignore the rabid dog in every room.

Treat each player with respect, and in the event that they have shown little to you, understand that their existence may blight you now, but they may yet learn what it means to be alone, and carry on as if the obstruction does not exist.

If you cannot be civil, do not speak.

[Krivvan]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Sorry What? You don't think CBT Players are competitive enough to stand in the competitive arena?

There are of course people who fall into both camps. I mean people who are exclusively interested in one or the other.

[Mystere]

Kilgorin Strom, on 15 January 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

If you cannot be civil, do not speak.

I would just like to reiterate one thing ...

For all you thin-skinned players out there, start trying to distinguish between someone being a "douche" and someone just pretending to be one (i.e. role playing). There is a lot of the latter going on and as such do not confuse those with the former.

[RustyBolts]

Ax2Grind, on 15 January 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Let's stop trying to demonize teams. Trash talk is a basic part of all chat and has nothing to do with "Comp teams". It has to do with some folks on the internet enjoying getting a rise out of people, team or no team. Turn your "All Chat" off if its just too much for you.

I find it a little ridiculous that the group of people most organized and dedicated to building an MWO community, and see this game succeed, continually get blasted as the Boogyman. Do me a favor and take screenshots of all the 12mans you face that clearly "dis" you in all chat over two weeks. Take a screenshot for every time a Pug talks smack. I can pretty much guarantee that you will have far more screenshots of the Pugs talking smack. Probably something far in excess of 10 to 1. MWO has many great units, most of whom ask folks to be respectful at all times when they drop together. While there have been a few groups in MWO history that reveled in trash talking as part of their game, most simply do not. Teams are not the problem.

Feeling guilty? I did not say all teams and if you dont think this is wrong or taking place maybe you are part of the problem.

As I said, teams that stomp the crap out of pugs but dont insult, degrade, talk **** etc.. have some sense of honor and are not really part of the problem. But if you kick the **** out of someone then talk **** that is part of the problem

DarthRevis, on 15 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

IF any 12 man with the SA tag is seen doing this they will be dealt with accordlingly.


I find it hard to believe that ALL the 12 mans are like this and i know for a fact WE are not.

This is nothing else then a over generalization about the comunity because you are to butt hurt to come to any other conclusion.

IT HAS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIME THAT CW IS FOR GROUPS!

I'm so sick and tired of this bs.....I dont even care to pander to these people who cant read a set of patch notes or even understand a game mode and whine when they lose. RustyBolts, if you cant deal with other people being able to group up in a mode made for people to group up then you need to head back to the public queue. There are 3 other modes for you to play HOWEVER you THINK the game should be played.

Never said SA was one of the problems in fact I have only had positive encounters with SA until now. And I dont care if you are sick of this BS on the forums because you dont care that some are sick of the BS **** talking. I guess your opinion matters and mine dont huh?

Edited by RustyBolts, 15 January 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[RustyBolts]

Mystere, on 15 January 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

I would just like to reiterate one thing ...

For all you thin-skinned players out there, start trying to distinguish between someone being a "douche" and someone just pretending to be one (i.e. role playing). There is a lot of the latter going on and as such do not confuse those with the former.

There is a line between role playing and insulting someone by degrading them and cursing at them. Yes pug do this to but its added salt in the wound when you just got crushed by a 12 man team and they start telling you to "take your sorry asses out of CW and go play with the rest of the ******* in the public que", "Your team of pathetic **** heads are less competition than the testing grounds" "How about you little ******* just line up so we can kill you now so we can move to the next drop?"

Actions like these on top of a stomp will drive the population away from CW. Low population in CW means less fun in CW.

[Mystere]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

There is a line between role playing and insulting someone by degrading them and cursing at them. Yes pug do this to but its added salt in the wound when you just got crushed by a 12 man team and they start telling you to "take your sorry asses out of CW this planet and go play with the rest of the ******* children in the public que playground", "Your team of pathetic **** heads are less competition than the dummy targets in our testing grounds" "How about you little ******* just line up so we can kill you now so we can move to the next drop planet?"

Actions like these on top of a stomp will drive the population away from CW. Low population in CW means less fun in CW.

Just a few changes and it sounds RP enough for me.

Just remember, people will be taunting, harassing, and insulting you to break your morale or disturb you enough to make you make a mistake. That is why it is done.

Edited by Mystere, 15 January 2015 - 02:21 PM.

[RustyBolts]

Mystere, on 15 January 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

Just a few changes and it sounds RP enough for me.

Just remember, people will be taunting, harassing, and insulting you to break your morale or disturb you enough to make you make a mistake. That is why it is done.

I am not naive, I know why its done but that does not make it right or acceptable.

[Mystere]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

I am not naive, I know why its done but that does not make it right or acceptable.

Well, I will just have to disagree with you then. I will do anything I can -- within the confines of the CoC, of course -- to break the will of the enemy, especially because I did not go here for eSports.

[Ax2Grind]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Feeling guilty? I did not say all teams and if you dont think this is wrong or taking place maybe you are part of the problem.

Feeling unable to argue your point in a logical and respectful manner?

I am simply pointing out that your flawed argument is...flawed. I didn't say trash talking was wrong or right in that post, just that it's not something unique to teams. I co-run a unit where we pride ourselves on sportsmanlike and friendly chat. I support your sentiment that it's unsportsmanlike to stomp a group and then rub it in. However, in my experience most teams are not trash talkers. I have in fact only known one team to trash talk in a way that didn't seem like friendly banter. Yet on the forums and in the PUG TS channels I often hear of the horrors of the many TryHard Comp Teams and their evil viscous All Chat posts. I have heard trash talk about SA, AS, 228, SJR, Lords, Templars, TMC, CK, APOC, QQ, NS, NW, and the list goes on and on. Yet in my experience only only one of those groups ever had a semi-consistent group of players who all made it a point to trash talk, and that changed. The rest of these teams have generally been a pleasure to drop with. Who are these evil doers that you speak of? Who are we going to tar and feather for abusing the all chat?

If you want to ask that all folks consider being sportsmanlike in their chat, I will back you. I won't get mad when people decide to say whatever they want, but I like cultivating a positive community and trash talk can get in the way of that.

If you want to pin it on teams, and help demonize a group of folks that are actively building community around this game then you are dead wrong. Time to get a mirror and take a good look at yourself.

[Gorgo7]

Turn off your general speak. Problem solved.

[Jakob Knight]

Krivvan, on 15 January 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

It's pretty important for PvP focused video games, look at how LoL, Starcraft, Smite, Dota and etc. have to handle it.

If you don't segregate then you throw the best players in with the worst players and that is what creates toxic behaviour and unfun games for both.

The issue is that Leagues do not produce better players in the context of the OP. As I said, had you quoted my entire post and not the part you wanted, stats such as KDR and Win/Loss do not produce a more mature person...quite the opposite in many cases. So, attempting to implement a League system based on a player's battlefield performance and not their actual character would not in any way address the actual issue, but simply be a concealed attempt by competitive players to use the issue as a vehicle to impose a sports system they can understand on the part of the game that is intentionally not a sports event.

The only way the suggestion could be implemented is if the devs sat down with each and every player and did a personal interview to determine the kind of person they were and how they conduct themselves in order to identify which 'league' of maturity to put them in. This would, certainly, produce different leagues of players that would center on weeding out the immature and/or insulting players and isolating them from the mature and/or respectful ones, but I think there simply isn't enough time in this century to do such a thing. Therefore, the entire idea is unworkable in principle as well as the practical, and should not be implemented in any way.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 15 January 2015 - 03:32 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

A personality test to decide who can enable All Chat? Sounds awesome. Sign me up! I wish we had one to decide if people should be allowed to pilot an Awesome...

[RustyBolts]

Ax2Grind, on 15 January 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

Feeling unable to argue your point in a logical and respectful manner?

I am simply pointing out that your flawed argument is...flawed. I didn't say trash talking was wrong or right in that post, just that it's not something unique to teams. I co-run a unit where we pride ourselves on sportsmanlike and friendly chat. I support your sentiment that it's unsportsmanlike to stomp a group and then rub it in. However, in my experience most teams are not trash talkers. I have in fact only known one team to trash talk in a way that didn't seem like friendly banter. Yet on the forums and in the PUG TS channels I often hear of the horrors of the many TryHard Comp Teams and their evil viscous All Chat posts. I have heard trash talk about SA, AS, 228, SJR, Lords, Templars, TMC, CK, APOC, QQ, NS, NW, and the list goes on and on. Yet in my experience only only one of those groups ever had a semi-consistent group of players who all made it a point to trash talk, and that changed. The rest of these teams have generally been a pleasure to drop with. Who are these evil doers that you speak of? Who are we going to tar and feather for abusing the all chat?

If you want to ask that all folks consider being sportsmanlike in their chat, I will back you. I won't get mad when people decide to say whatever they want, but I like cultivating a positive community and trash talk can get in the way of that.

If you want to pin it on teams, and help demonize a group of folks that are actively building community around this game then you are dead wrong. Time to get a mirror and take a good look at yourself.

Not flawed when your comprehension is flawed. I never said all 12 mans were the problem nor did I say they were the only problem. I said one of the problems was when a 12 man stomped the crap out of someone then rubbed it in. There is no need for that. Maybe you should get that mirror out if you think that a 12 man team stomping the **** out of someone then talking **** to them about it is "actively building aa community around this game" when those actions drive people away. Once again, I am not pinning ALL this on teams, just the ones who feel the need to insult after a beat down.

Gorgo7, on 15 January 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

Turn off your general speak. Problem solved.

Oh yes. Running away and hiding from the problem will solve it. Good advice.

Mystere, on 15 January 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Well, I will just have to disagree with you then. I will do anything I can -- within the confines of the CoC, of course -- to break the will of the enemy, especially because I did not go here for eSports.

So you think calling players the slang for a special needs child and cussing them out is justified. Once again,there is a line that should not be crossed.

[Gorgo7]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

Oh yes. Running away and hiding from the problem will solve it. Good advice.

Dude!
For years you had no choice in the matter and simply had to take it. When they allowed people to shut of typed chat from the enemy as well as your own team they fixed it.
There is no problem and you are a troll.

ggclose

[Blacksoul1987]

I enjoy the trash talk it makes me laugh like a hyena.

[Mystere]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

So you think calling players the slang for a special needs child and cussing them out is justified. Once again,there is a line that should not be crossed.

Mystere, on 15 January 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Well, I will just have to disagree with you then. I will do anything I can -- within the confines of the CoC, of course -- to break the will of the enemy, especially because I did not go here for eSports.

Bolded, enlarged, italicized, and underlined for emphasis.

[Ax2Grind]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

Edit: Twists others words and seems to be intentionally trolling at this point

Carry on good sir. Carry on. This world does not yet have nearly enough negative minded vitriol. Do you drop with a team by chance? I would love to blame them for your salty posts.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 15 January 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[RustyBolts]

Ax2Grind, on 15 January 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

Carry on good sir. Carry on. This world does not yet have nearly enough negative minded vitriol. Add some more to make your point that it's not good to do this. Do you drop with a team by chance? I would love to blame them for your salty posts.

Twist others words. LMAO You twisted mine first.

Gorgo7, on 15 January 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

Dude!
For years you had no choice in the matter and simply had to take it. When they allowed people to shut of typed chat from the enemy as well as your own team they fixed it.
There is no problem and you are a troll.

ggclose

You can run and hide, but the problem will still be there. Hope you dont approach life that way.

Mystere, on 15 January 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

Bolded, enlarged, italicized, and underlined for emphasis.

My appologies, I misunderstood this post based on your original post where you changed my quotes. I failed to see the smiley face on my phone and took it the wrong way.

But my point still stands. There is a line that should not be crossed, regardless of the intent. I have a special needs child and when I see poor sports throwing the slang around, regardless of pug or team, I tend to take it personal. I dont see that as being thin skinned either. If you call a black guy the N word, does it make it ok since its over the internet? No.

And turning off chat does not fix the problem, it hides the problem. Instead of hiding the problem we should be fixing the problem. If that makes me a troll that I will call people out on it, then I am a troll and proud of it.

[Tywren]

Mystere, on 15 January 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

Well, I will just have to disagree with you then. I will do anything I can -- within the confines of the CoC, of course -- to break the will of the enemy, especially because I did not go here for eSports.

When such a "Do anything i can (within the rules) to win" mindset, starts driveing players out of CW, and maybe even out of the game, it needs to stop. And guess what, it's reached that point.