186 replies to this topic

[Jakob Knight]

Krivvan, on 15 January 2015 - 02:22 AM, said:

A league system that segregates different types of players would be best. The issue is the population size.

That would be a terrible idea for CW. Separating the Playerbase into 'castes' would just foster even more bad behavior and elitism that what we see now, as it would give actual encouragement for those views. A League system is for sports games, not MWO, and -especially- not for CW. Leave this for the Solaris mode, if at all, and keep anything sports-related out of CW.

And, it's not like player performance on the battlefield by Kill/Death or Victory/Loss is an indicator of how mature the player is. In many instances, attention to these stats is a big motivator in poor player conduct on the battlefield.

I think this suggestion completely misses the point of this thread.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 15 January 2015 - 03:32 AM.

[RustyBolts]

One of the issues I have with CW is that a 12 man Comp team stomps the crap out of a Pug team or casual players and they talk **** and insult the other team while doing it. This type of behavoir is one reason why some no longer want to play CW.

[oldradagast]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

One of the issues I have with CW is that a 12 man Comp team stomps the crap out of a Pug team or casual players and they talk **** and insult the other team while doing it. This type of behavoir is one reason why some no longer want to play CW.

*mumble, mumble...* Uh, we need PUG-stomps because... this is REAL WAR!!! Yes it is. Real war - with equal drop decks, a fixed objective, a 30-minute timer, and all so we can conquer pixels on a screen, just like real soldiers. No, but seriously - CW is the land of "real skill" - which explains why we have to leave free wins, like PUG stomps and ghost drops, in the game as crutches for those "elite" people who trumpet their skills but shout down anyone who proposes a fair fight.

Or... maybe we should fall back to the "get good, get wrecked, or GTFO" mindset. And then mix that with whining about how the PUG's and small groups - who are being used as nothing but cannon fodder and ego boosters by sad little man-children - aren't interested in joining those man-children in their delusional GI Joe fantasies.

Nope... it's a real mystery while CW is floundering and losing players at an impressive rate.

Edited by oldradagast, 15 January 2015 - 04:17 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

Employ matchmaking.
12 pre-made vs 12 pre-made, if not possible, break down until lance vs. lance, filled up with PUGs.
In order to play full-team-pre-made matches, decalre some planets "vital", so 12 man units get to battle each other primarily there.

After all, not every soldier can choose where he fights, but he has to go where supreme command sends him.

[Ax2Grind]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

One of the issues I have with CW is that a 12 man Comp team stomps the crap out of a Pug team or casual players and they talk **** and insult the other team while doing it. This type of behavoir is one reason why some no longer want to play CW.

Let's stop trying to demonize teams. Trash talk is a basic part of all chat and has nothing to do with "Comp teams". It has to do with some folks on the internet enjoying getting a rise out of people, team or no team. Turn your "All Chat" off if its just too much for you.

I find it a little ridiculous that the group of people most organized and dedicated to building an MWO community, and see this game succeed, continually get blasted as the Boogyman. Do me a favor and take screenshots of all the 12mans you face that clearly "dis" you in all chat over two weeks. Take a screenshot for every time a Pug talks smack. I can pretty much guarantee that you will have far more screenshots of the Pugs talking smack. Probably something far in excess of 10 to 1. MWO has many great units, most of whom ask folks to be respectful at all times when they drop together. While there have been a few groups in MWO history that reveled in trash talking as part of their game, most simply do not. Teams are not the problem.

[Joseph Mallan]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

One of the issues I have with CW is that a 12 man Comp team stomps the crap out of a Pug team or casual players and they talk **** and insult the other team while doing it. This type of behavoir is one reason why some no longer want to play CW.

Agreed. Talking smack when you are obviously superior is a sign of a poor sport. Rolls can ans should be allowed in CW but the smack talk used to humiliate the losing side is just a sad sign that some people have no respect.

[Joseph Mallan]

oldradagast, on 15 January 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Or... maybe we should fall back to the "get good, get wrecked, or GTFO" mindset. And then mix that with whining about how the PUG's and small groups - who are being used as nothing but cannon fodder and ego boosters by sad little man-children - aren't interested in joining those man-children in their delusional GI Joe fantasies.

Nope... it's a real mystery while CW is floundering and losing players at an impressive rate.

I hold myself to this standard, Why shouldn't I apply it to others Rad? I (try to)bring my Best game. If I get handed to, I know I have to step up or step off. Isn't that a sign of a mature competitor?

Also, Those top tier Competitive folks aren't just mopping up the deck with PUGs. They Mop it up with everyone. So quit it with the poor innocent victim card. Its so already been played. If you drop in CW You need to be ready for a rough and bumpy ride.

[Wildstreak]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

One of the issues I have with CW is that a 12 man Comp team stomps the crap out of a Pug team or casual players and they talk **** and insult the other team while doing it. This type of behavoir is one reason why some no longer want to play CW.

Yes but I will admit I only saw this from about 3-4 teams when I tried CW.
One complaint that always confounded me was about Lords, TMK there is only one Lords team unless there is one I do not know of (I do not have the time to keep track of all teams) and they were Wolf at the time. I wound up in a PUG facing a Wolf Lords 12 man, all this Lords team did was talk like Clanners making challenges.
I could see someone who does not know of lore and roleplaying behavior thinking this is insulting behavior. I thought it was funny they did it, it was not the same as the real dumb chat from the other 3-4 teams I ran into.

PFC Carsten, on 15 January 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

Employ matchmaking.
12 pre-made vs 12 pre-made, if not possible, break down until lance vs. lance, filled up with PUGs.
In order to play full-team-pre-made matches, decalre some planets "vital", so 12 man units get to battle each other primarily there.

After all, not every soldier can choose where he fights, but he has to go where supreme command sends him.

Except the supreme command can, not always, but often enough choose where they fight a quality lost here. This also allows command to choose which of their units go against enemy units.

Here, I described CW like Football that is true but it also has a Gambling quality with the randomness that only makes sense to the House (PGI) and a few who have, 'a system.'

I came to play the computer version of CBT, not Football Gambling, if I want that there are plenty of places I can go to get it, I don't need or want it in MWO.

Ax2Grind, on 15 January 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Let's stop trying to demonize teams. Trash talk is a basic part of all chat and has nothing to do with "Comp teams". It has to do with some folks on the internet enjoying getting a rise out of people, team or no team. Turn your "All Chat" off if its just too much for you.

I find it a little ridiculous that the group of people most organized and dedicated to building an MWO community, and see this game succeed, continually get blasted as the Boogyman. Do me a favor and take screenshots of all the 12mans you face that clearly "dis" you in all chat over two weeks. Take a screenshot for every time a Pug talks smack. I can pretty much guarantee that you will have far more screenshots of the Pugs talking smack. Probably something far in excess of 10 to 1. MWO has many great units, most of whom ask folks to be respectful at all times when they drop together. While there have been a few groups in MWO history that reveled in trash talking as part of their game, most simply do not. Teams are not the problem.

Actually, no, my experience is I find as many smack talkers in both Teams & PUGs. Note I do not state it is everywhere, I clarified how many teams I ran across that did it above plus that some players may misunderstand those who are roleplaying as something else.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wildstreak, on 15 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

I came to play the computer version of CBT, not Football Gambling, if I want that there are plenty of places I can go to get it, I don't need or want it in MWO.

I ran a Official World Wide CBT Event. Trial of Retribution. The creator of the event was a proud Nova Cat and Capellan fan. This was a Naval Scenario.

The Ghost had no Boarding parties on their warships guarding their only naval repair station. Nova Cats did like a dozen of them!
The Ghost Bears fielded no Kirghiz(the favorite AS fighter)
The Nova Cats had 7 Squadrons (70 Kirghiz, each squadron having more armor and more damage than the Ghost Bear's Destroyers)
The Nova Cats fielded 3 Aegis and 2 other ships) in each scenario. One Aegis is capable of killing 2-3 destroyers in a single turn.(200+ damage at long range and 500+ in short range)
The Ghost Bear's fielded 3 Destroyers a Corvette and one Capital.

My Point, This is intentionally stacking the deck.

Community Warfare is random game generation with no restrictions. You COULD face nobody or you could face the Lords or 228 or HHoD. But its random chance right now.

Are we going to complain if we have a contract to protect Oh Alphard and the top in the game decides... they want Alphard's resources and attacks? Is that "unfair"? The answer is No. Its not unfair that they want what you have and come to take it.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 January 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[Revis Volek]

RustyBolts, on 15 January 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

One of the issues I have with CW is that a 12 man Comp team stomps the crap out of a Pug team or casual players and they talk **** and insult the other team while doing it. This type of behavoir is one reason why some no longer want to play CW.

IF any 12 man with the SA tag is seen doing this they will be dealt with accordlingly.


I find it hard to believe that ALL the 12 mans are like this and i know for a fact WE are not.

This is nothing else then a over generalization about the comunity because you are to butt hurt to come to any other conclusion.

IT HAS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIME THAT CW IS FOR GROUPS!

I'm so sick and tired of this bs.....I dont even care to pander to these people who cant read a set of patch notes or even understand a game mode and whine when they lose. RustyBolts, if you cant deal with other people being able to group up in a mode made for people to group up then you need to head back to the public queue. There are 3 other modes for you to play HOWEVER you THINK the game should be played.

Edited by DarthRevis, 15 January 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[Roadbeer]

DarthRevis, on 15 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

IF any 12 man with the SA tag is seen doing this they will be dealt with accordlingly.


I find it hard to believe that ALL the 12 mans are like this and i know for a fact WE are not.

This is nothing else then a over generalization about the comunity because you are to butt hurt to come to any other conclusion.

IT HAS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIME THAT CW IS FOR GROUPS!

I'm so sick and tired of this bs.....I dont even care to pander to these people who cant read a set of patch notes or even understand a game mode and whine when they lose. RustyBolts, if you cant deal with other people being able to group up in a mode made for people to group up then you need to head back to the public queue. There are 3 other modes for you to play HOWEVER you THINK the game should be played.

[Tywren]

DarthRevis, on 15 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

IF any 12 man with the SA tag is seen doing this they will be dealt with accordlingly.


I find it hard to believe that ALL the 12 mans are like this and i know for a fact WE are not.

This is true, i've faces SA while chipping in on border defence with the Combine, It's a very sportsman like group, always closing out the match with gg, instead of the more taunting ggclose. But you have to understand that for every group like SA, there's at least one like [LORDS] who go out of their way to **** talk the other team.

DarthRevis, on 15 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

IT HAS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIME THAT CW IS FOR GROUPS!

I'm so sick and tired of this bs.....I dont even care to pander to these people who cant read a set of patch notes or even understand a game mode and whine when they lose. RustyBolts, if you cant deal with other people being able to group up in a mode made for people to group up then you need to head back to the public queue. There are 3 other modes for you to play HOWEVER you THINK the game should be played.

Oh i've seen the patch notes, and yes CW is being built around the 12 man groups. The reason myself, and many others are speaking out about this, is that we have a historical precedent in this game that clearly shows building around that demographic does not work. We can even see parallels between the two; many of the things that killed 12 man que, are poping up in CW as well, such as 30+ min wait times to get a match. In the 12 man que days the units found out that they had a better chance of getting a match together by splitting into 4 man teams and synk droping; in the CW era, they are simply droping out of the CW que when it takes too long, and droping pub que instead. Another thing that drove people out of the 12 man que was a over abundance (not all but enough) of teams that had bloated egos, and bad attatudes. It made people not want to drop in the 12 man que, just to stay away from them, and now in CW we are seeing the same thing happen again.

[Wildstreak]

Daisu Saikoro, on 13 January 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

I've had to send in screenshots of abusive language and behavior and I'm unsure if anything is being done as well. My question then becomes if PGI doesn't handle it what can we, the players do?

PGI has always had the same system for this, the only thing I can say for certain, and this gives me pause along with a few other things, is that there seems to be a smaller staff dealing with Support today. For a while I remember there were 3+ people handling Support from the different names I saw responding to things I sent in, now it seems to be all on one person named GM Patience except for one time when a different name responded.

GM Patience must be really overloaded handling Support by himself.

DarthRevis, on 15 January 2015 - 08:38 AM, said:

IF any 12 man with the SA tag is seen doing this they will be dealt with accordlingly.


I find it hard to believe that ALL the 12 mans are like this and i know for a fact WE are not.

This is nothing else then a over generalization about the comunity because you are to butt hurt to come to any other conclusion.

IT HAS BEEN STATED NUMEROUS TIME THAT CW IS FOR GROUPS!

I'm so sick and tired of this bs.....I dont even care to pander to these people who cant read a set of patch notes or even understand a game mode and whine when they lose. RustyBolts, if you cant deal with other people being able to group up in a mode made for people to group up then you need to head back to the public queue. There are 3 other modes for you to play HOWEVER you THINK the game should be played.

I have no idea how SJ players deal with it so had no where to respond to the one SJ team that I saw did it.

As for 12 mans, I do know they seem to have flip-flopped or gone too silent on their beliefs and expectations they expressed 7 months ago during the Beta Team Tournament.

CW is not for groups as presented by a narrow minded subset.

[Krivvan]

Jakob Knight, on 15 January 2015 - 03:29 AM, said:

That would be a terrible idea for CW. Separating the Playerbase into 'castes' would just foster even more bad behavior and elitism that what we see now, as it would give actual encouragement for those views. A League system is for sports games, not MWO, and -especially- not for CW. Leave this for the Solaris mode, if at all, and keep anything sports-related out of CW.

It's pretty important for PvP focused video games, look at how LoL, Starcraft, Smite, Dota and etc. have to handle it.

If you don't segregate then you throw the best players in with the worst players and that is what creates toxic behaviour and unfun games for both.

Wildstreak, on 15 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

One complaint that always confounded me was about Lords, TMK there is only one Lords team unless there is one I do not know of (I do not have the time to keep track of all teams) and they were Wolf at the time. I wound up in a PUG facing a Wolf Lords 12 man, all this Lords team did was talk like Clanners making challenges.
I could see someone who does not know of lore and roleplaying behavior thinking this is insulting behavior. I thought it was funny they did it, it was not the same as the real dumb chat from the other 3-4 teams I ran into.

We've only ever been Jade Falcon and FRR.

Edited by Krivvan, 15 January 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[Krivvan]

Wildstreak, on 15 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

I came to play the computer version of CBT, not Football Gambling, if I want that there are plenty of places I can go to get it, I don't need or want it in MWO.

One of the issues with this game is that the core gameplay, mechanics, and challenge very much attract competitive players who play games such as DOTA, Starcraft, CS:GO, and etc. You also have people who want to play the computer version of CBT. You cannot mix these people together to play against each other, that's why leagues need to exist (but they can't because population).

[Joseph Mallan]

Krivvan, on 15 January 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

One of the issues with this game is that the core gameplay, mechanics, and challenge very much attract competitive players who play games such as DOTA, Starcraft, CS:GO, and etc. You also have people who want to play the computer version of CBT. You cannot mix these people together to play against each other, that's why leagues need to exist (but they can't because population).

Sorry What? You don't think CBT Players are competitive enough to stand in the competitive arena?

[Mystere]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 January 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

Agreed. Talking smack when you are obviously superior is a sign of a poor sport.

Ahem! This is "war", remember? Get on with the program.

[Revis Volek]

Tywren, on 15 January 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

This is true, i've faces SA while chipping in on border defence with the Combine, It's a very sportsman like group, always closing out the match with gg, instead of the more taunting ggclose. But you have to understand that for every group like SA, there's at least one like [LORDS] who go out of their way to **** talk the other team.

Oh i've seen the patch notes, and yes CW is being built around the 12 man groups. The reason myself, and many others are speaking out about this, is that we have a historical precedent in this game that clearly shows building around that demographic does not work. We can even see parallels between the two; many of the things that killed 12 man que, are poping up in CW as well, such as 30+ min wait times to get a match. In the 12 man que days the units found out that they had a better chance of getting a match together by splitting into 4 man teams and synk droping; in the CW era, they are simply droping out of the CW que when it takes too long, and droping pub que instead. Another thing that drove people out of the 12 man que was a over abundance (not all but enough) of teams that had bloated egos, and bad attatudes. It made people not want to drop in the 12 man que, just to stay away from them, and now in CW we are seeing the same thing happen again.

Thank you, we (SA) try to be as respectable as possible while still having friendly rivalries. Makes it that much more enjoyable.

So again, if you think that the whole game should be geared towards Solo players where do the groups go? We have been segregated from all other modes because of this before. Now you all want us out of CW?

I hate to break it to you all but we dont have the population to have double the amount of queue in CW. It hard enough with 1 planet per border. Only about 1/3 of them CAN EVEN BE contested at one time due to low player population. This is something everyone is just going to have to deal with i think. Once faction grouping comes around (maybe IF) I believe we will see a remedy to this for most of the players. But to say that having a game which 2/3rds of the entire title is made so SOLO and PUGS can just drop in and do ONE 15 minute match with NO OTHER COMMITMENT is doing anything WRONG by then trying to pander to OTHER demographics (such as small and large groups) is wrong or not going to work is just silly to me.

I know how many people are in these units and even if it is a 1/3 of the player base they are just as important as the rest of you and also deserve a place to play....do we not?

So my answer is to group up or take your beatings. PGI seems to agree...

Also, you have the BEST CHANCE of a match in CW if you are a 12 man....you skip the pre queue and are immediately waiting for a match. So the 4 man group thing works but that is because its much easier and faster for the MM to make teams outta small groups then it is too find solos and put them together. one 8 plus a 4 and BAM waiting to build a match. 3 4's boom...hold territory.

Just need more instructions on the process of finding a match in CW if you ask me. I think SHOWING people via a video of something would go a long way. But yes 4 man groups work because of what i stated above. The MM (or lack there of) likes nice even numbers...its makes maths easy!

Edited by DarthRevis, 15 January 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[ZenFool]

So let me get this straight...
The pugs are getting rolled and having bad gameplay experience.(getting rolled sucks)
The small elite groups are having bad gameplay experience.(population matters more than skill!)
The EU players have NO gameplay experience.(Our attacks don't matter!)

That's a big chunk of the population. I think what we are all after is a good gaming experience and right now it doesn't seem to be working out for the majority of players. I've played as pug against some of the comp teams and know how horrific the experience is. I've played in a large group vs. an unorganized team and know how boring it is. I've listened to my EU brethren who are very unsure if the patch on the 20th will address their concerns.

The only matches that were truly fun (for me) were 12 v 12 against people of roughly equal skill. The most memorable matches I have had were against NS. Win or lose, every game has been a blast. This is what we are all after. Good games.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mystere, on 15 January 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

Ahem! This is "war", remember? Get on with the program.

Then it is dishonorable to gloat at the misfortune of the inferior. I can put it in Warrior speak easily as you can see.