192 replies to this topic

[Davers]

I wonder what PGI is thinking about the various zones of conflict in CW. We have the relative stalemate between Davion/Marik, the unchecked advance of the Clans across their entire border, and Goliath slaying David in Davion vs Liao. Is this what they imagined would happen?

[MischiefSC]

Davers, on 23 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

I wonder what PGI is thinking about the various zones of conflict in CW. We have the relative stalemate between Davion/Marik, the unchecked advance of the Clans across their entire border, and Goliath slaying David in Davion vs Liao. Is this what they imagined would happen?

Fastest way to stall Clan advance -

remove ability for everyone to Pug on Clan border.

Someone from another faction wants to drop on Clan border they need to show up in a 12man or their unit needs an invite from a House Unit on that border.

Also need a way to open new fronts. Give Liao somewhere else to focus their attention so there is at least some hope of a Davion/Liao ceasefire. Issues with map design screwing specific factions is a game design issue and needs treated as such. In the say way that RNG was removed from accuracy for as much as it's not just gameplay mechanic canon but in its way actual BT lore canon in order to make the game better there needs to be ways for the corner-stuck factions to open new fronts. Everyone needs to have a potential of 5 fronts.

[cranect]

Although lets not go for so much more that marik fights marik because lets face it we would fight each other if given half the chance because well why not? I agree that Liao needs a way to get unstuck though.

[Davers]

MischiefSC, on 24 January 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

Fastest way to stall Clan advance -

remove ability for everyone to Pug on Clan border.

Someone from another faction wants to drop on Clan border they need to show up in a 12man or their unit needs an invite from a House Unit on that border.

Also need a way to open new fronts. Give Liao somewhere else to focus their attention so there is at least some hope of a Davion/Liao ceasefire. Issues with map design screwing specific factions is a game design issue and needs treated as such. In the say way that RNG was removed from accuracy for as much as it's not just gameplay mechanic canon but in its way actual BT lore canon in order to make the game better there needs to be ways for the corner-stuck factions to open new fronts. Everyone needs to have a potential of 5 fronts.

I think PGI's answer to that was making everyone mercenaries. I think they expected people to constantly shift factions so they could fight new people. I don't think PGI understands how 'faction loyal' casual players are compared to the l33t units.

[Direwoof]

Why are we arguing with each other? doesn't matter either way the Clans will dominate the map before long because Op mechs.

[Karl Marlow]

CharAznable1996, on 24 January 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

Why are we arguing with each other? doesn't matter either way the Clans will dominate the map before long because Op mechs.

I prefer to be a little more proactive in the face of the clan advance. Something that doesn't involve breaking out the lube. The argument is over weather Marik and Davion should continue playing slappy fight while the Inner Sphere Burns.

So far we've only learned:
Davion wants to remove Liao from the map.
Marik does not want Liao removed from the map
Everyone agrees Liao is in a terrible position
Marik and Liao want to reclaim planets they lost early in CW
Davion would welcome a NAP with Marik in order to go north
A few Mariks are so against the idea they want to shoot other Mariks.

[IraqiWalker]

CharAznable1996, on 24 January 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

Why are we arguing with each other? doesn't matter either way the Clans will dominate the map before long because Op mechs.

What are you even talking about? Grab a TDR-9S, TDR-5SS, a couple of Spider-5Ds, or FS9s, and then tell me the clans are OP.

The clans are close to balanced now. The only problem we're having, and the reason the clans keep advancing is that the mercs on their side inflate their numbers, and the PuGs on the clan border are a hindrance 9 times out of 10. Honestly, the IS would lose planets at a much slower rate if only organized groups were allowed to drop on the clan border. Hell, I believe the IS would recoup a lot of it's losses that way.

PuGs on the clan border drop like they are in the solo pug queue, and only care about farming damage, for C-Bills. They are playing to not lose badly. Not playing to win.

ThomasMarik, on 24 January 2015 - 01:51 AM, said:

I prefer to be a little more proactive in the face of the clan advance. Something that doesn't involve breaking out the lube. The argument is over weather Marik and Davion should continue playing slappy fight while the Inner Sphere Burns.

So far we've only learned:
Davion wants to remove Liao from the map.
Marik does not want Liao removed from the map
Everyone agrees Liao is in a terrible position
Marik and Liao want to reclaim planets they lost early in CW
Davion would welcome a NAP with Marik in order to go north
A few Mariks are so against the idea they want to shoot other Mariks.

One modification: Davion wants Liao removed from the map, so long as Liao is a threat, which sadly, is the only thing Liao can be right now.

(some of us do also want Liao wiped out, much like how some Mariks want to start the Marik civil war all over again, if there is the possibility of a MrK/DAV NAP)

Edited by IraqiWalker, 24 January 2015 - 01:55 AM.

[MischiefSC]

IraqiWalker, on 24 January 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

What are you even talking about? Grab a TDR-9S, TDR-5SS, a couple of Spider-5Ds, or FS9s, and then tell me the clans are OP.

The clans are close to balanced now. The only problem we're having, and the reason the clans keep advancing is that the mercs on their side inflate their numbers, and the PuGs on the clan border are a hindrance 9 times out of 10. Honestly, the IS would lose planets at a much slower rate if only organized groups were allowed to drop on the clan border. Hell, I believe the IS would recoup a lot of it's losses that way.

PuGs on the clan border drop like they are in the solo pug queue, and only care about farming damage, for C-Bills. They are playing to not lose badly. Not playing to win.



One modification: Davion wants Liao removed from the map, so long as Liao is a threat, which sadly, is the only thing Liao can be right now.

(some of us do also want Liao wiped out, much like how some Mariks want to start the Marik civil war all over again, if there is the possibility of a MrK/DAV NAP)

Liao has less that Davion wants than Marik does. Stepping aside from faction politics as a player I find the limitations on viable fronts to be a fundamental flaw in CW. I can't stress this enough -

CW is going to go for *years*. 2 years from now are people still going to want to play factions with 2 fronts, especially ones pinned in a bad corner like Liao? End of the day we only have about 1/2 the factions in the game as fully viable. All the others are gimped by map location and relative faction nature. Factions, Liao being primary, have no options no hope no future. Not because of anything the players there do or don't do but map location. If the map was reset tomorrow Liao would have to take almost 150 Davion worlds to get a Kurita border or almost 200 Marik worlds (the MM peels IS vs IS worlds off in layers, not knife-like as it does for Clans) to get a Steiner border. The brutal reality is that the CW 'faction goal' for Liao is pretty much to not get wiped out by its bigger neighbors. That is fundamentally a **** mechanic and bad game design. Nobody is happy with it. Liao isn't happy with it, Marik isn't happy with it (sure they'd love a more useful ally), Davion isn't happy with it. The longer it's left the harder it is to fix. Putting factions on an even footing is to me every bit as vital to CWs future as things like VOIP and better rewards. Factions should rise or fall based on the performance of their players not the game equivalent of being born to a rich or poor family.

[Gorgo7]

IraqiWalker, on 23 January 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

I wasn't apologizing, just clarifying. Liao is not only defending it's planets, it has attacked Davion (in fact, you still own one or two of our planets), and the one time the Capellan Confederation had a chance to garner good will -the holiday truce-, they instead tried to stage an invasion, taking advantage from the truce.

Grynos phrased his post in a way that made it seem like Davion only cared about itself, while the other houses, liao included, cared about ALL the IS houses. That's the lie.

Yeah...
Liao cares about Liao and its alliances.

[Molossian Dog]

ThomasMarik, on 24 January 2015 - 01:51 AM, said:

...A few Mariks are so against the idea they want to shoot other Mariks.

Quick question before the Dave propaganda department creates yet another myth.

Who exactly wants that?

IraqiWalker, on 24 January 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

....(some of us do also want Liao wiped out, much like how some Mariks want to start the Marik civil war all over again, if there is the possibility of a MrK/DAV NAP)

Aww. Too late.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 24 January 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[Grynos]

The fundamental flaw with CW was that they catered to canon and did not seperate the clans around the inner sphere... If they had done that in the very beginning things might have benefited more... By not doing so, they gave the three southern IS factions very little to gain. They created a situation where the northen three houses have to deal with multiple clan fronts, which in reality is not logistically fair.. Imagine if a clan bordered Liao and Davion from the beginning , would we have been fighting one another?? It might have been possible but probably less likely don't you think.

It also would have a greater overall impact in not only IS diplomacy, but also Clan diplomacy. Picture this scenario , Clan Wolfie is bordering both Davion and Liao.. Wolfies attack Liao , Davion is attacking the wolfies and are near capping it. Liao asks for assistance due to low population numbers. Now any IS faction can help defend Liao, any Clan can help defend the Wolfies... It creates an environment where different house would have to communicate and of course there would be politics involved, but that would also make CW more interesting.... Perhaps if the clans were diversified around the IS instead of concentrated in one spot it would make CW more interesting.

[IraqiWalker]

Grynos, on 24 January 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

The fundamental flaw with CW was that they catered to canon and did not seperate the clans around the inner sphere... If they had done that in the very beginning things might have benefited more... By not doing so, they gave the three southern IS factions very little to gain. They created a situation where the northen three houses have to deal with multiple clan fronts, which in reality is not logistically fair.. Imagine if a clan bordered Liao and Davion from the beginning , would we have been fighting one another?? It might have been possible but probably less likely don't you think.

It also would have a greater overall impact in not only IS diplomacy, but also Clan diplomacy. Picture this scenario , Clan Wolfie is bordering both Davion and Liao.. Wolfies attack Liao , Davion is attacking the wolfies and are near capping it. Liao asks for assistance due to low population numbers. Now any IS faction can help defend Liao, any Clan can help defend the Wolfies... It creates an environment where different house would have to communicate and of course there would be politics involved, but that would also make CW more interesting.... Perhaps if the clans were diversified around the IS instead of concentrated in one spot it would make CW more interesting.

QFT

[Noaceik]

Yes having the clans spread around could help, but also so could a 3025 border for the bottom 3 states. That way all the factions except for FRR would have a border to Terra. Thus making it possible for any of the 5 states to hit any other state. From the Terra sector of space.