2112 replies to this topic

[Alexander of Macedon]

TBH neither MWO or Warframe are particularly grindy-the latter used to have a little, but updates have greatly lessened it. That said, my perspective might be a tad off because I have fun just with the core gameplay cycle of each, months of being unable to get matched in WF turned me into a Loki-P solo stealthwhore who likes long stretches of tedium, and one of the other games I play regularly is a KRMMO.

The grind, such that it is, is a sideline. It's something that happens in the background, and it only really seriously affects your ability to enjoy MWO for the first month, if that. WF, as I and others have said, used to be a tad grindy with keys, but the new relic system is absurdly easy to farm. And "muh vaulted stuff" doesn't really count because it's all periodically returned to the drop tables, and the relic system means you can farm a bunch while that's on and open them at your leisure. (Though again, not totally objective because I already have basically every prime I want from back in the day.)

[davoodoo]

Also need to mention, majority of the grind is for the new stuff so as new player 3 years in you wont feel impact of it for a long time.

Also i dont think removing anything from the game is a good thing, especially that their reason for removal was "to make more place for new drops" before they introduced shitton of new relics and havent reduced drop tables dilution at all.

Edited by davoodoo, 04 August 2017 - 06:00 PM.

[Koniving]

Honeybadgers, on 02 August 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

(Games?)

[davoodoo]

Koniving, on 04 August 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

(Games?)

1st looks like terminator movie

and 2nd looks like armored core.

[RestosIII]

Another large-ish one. Spoilering it.

Critting the ammo in a RAC boat with a TC-boosted LPLas. Gifv link here for smoother viewing here.

Spoiler

[Athom83]

Koniving, on 04 August 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

(Games?)

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

1st looks like terminator movie

and 2nd looks like armored core.

1st is the intro cutscene to Armored Core 5.

2nd is from either Armored Core 3 or 4.

[IraqiWalker]

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

1.no, that analogy is correct...

No, it's not. It would actually be more along the lines of PGI removing a paintjob that gave you +2% armor for the clans, and vaulting it, with MWO being a PVE game where you play as the clans, and with almost 0 PvP.

When Rhino Prime got vaulted, we still had Rhino in the game.

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

2.except all trading is done with premium currency and all premium currency is paid for. Plat aint free and they got incentive to raise prices by lowering drop chances

Again, false/misleading.

You can trade syndicate weapons, you can trade other items, and you can trade mods. Not to mention you can farm plat, by simply selling the syndicate weapons, and mods, and prime parts you get from missions. Again, I've spent maybe 200 dollars total on Warframe, yet I have a balance of plat many times worth that. Hell, if I want to actually sit down and grind plat, I can generate 160 plat pet week off syndicate weapons alone. That's aside from the rare mods I can sell from the missions.

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

3.no, these are per sortie rewards... exilus adapter 0.17%, legendary core 0.17%
exilus adapter, you can get maybe 3 such alerts per month?? hope you are awake.

You can also get 3 exilus adapters per week from Simaris alone. Maybe 4 if you really want to grind for them.

The legendary core is the single rarest, and most powerful item. It deserves that rarity. Everything else is actually very reasonable. Not to mention these are still the old drop tables from 2013-14.

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

4.yes, ppl were doing 60 mins runs(or at least i were with my clanmates) and it ended in burning through 400 keys every 3 months before we got the drops.

Sorry RNG screwed you over, but I've never seen, or heard of anyone having to do even 1/4th of that to get their prime parts.
Especially considering the rarest prime parts have a drop rate of 11% (meaning 9-10 runs max before you get it, if you only do 20 minute runs, or 3-4 runs if you do 60 minute runs)

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

and improved isnt what i would call it, as now you burn through 4 times as many keys and cant rely on other ppl keys, so now amount of grind is tripled, not only i need to farm my own keys, then i need to rad my keys and then i need to farm my rewards.
huzzah

You have heard of "rad shares" right? Seriously, stop exaggerating and being so dramatic. Relics are a dime a dozen, and the traces for them are farmed in one mission. Also, you don't always need to rad the keys, if you pay attention to the drop percentages they have on the UI right there for you to see.

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Which brings me to the point, most ppl said **** its easier to just farm ducat fodder and buy parts with plat which leds for further lowering drop chances until final gambit on de part, namely removing older drops to increase price on them, no more 20p for frost prime which was actually decent bargain for new players, overnight price jumped to 900p meaning **** your frost prime...

This part is flat out false (drop chances were not lowered), and the price for Frost prime didn't hit 900 plat until literally a year after its vaulting. In the mean time, new players had other bargains replacing it, that were just as good. Aside from all the free frames (like regular frost) that literally do the exact same thing, with having a gold trim on the frame.

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Warframe was decent, but with succes it got fat and glutonous.
http://steamcharts.com/top
top9 right above payday2 with something along the lines of 1/20th its budget, less content updates and no microtransactions.
i wont call it bad, ill call it mediocre succes for f2p with mass appeal.

Yeah, except for the part where WF is F2P, and literally costs 0 dollars to access the content.

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Also lets take some actual metric for mwo and warframe.
mwo
Playtime total:24:54 (average) 00:49 (median)
warframe
Playtime total: 70:15 (average) 04:29 (median)

So more than quadruple the average playtime on WF is what I'm seeing. Wanna tell me what you're getting at here?

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

and as control
path of exile
Playtime total: 62:50 (average) 04:19 (median)
black deset online(actual korean style grinder)
Playtime total: 57:26 (average) 08:00 (median)
planetside 2
Playtime total: 25:37 (average) 02:26 (median)
I mean sure nearly 3 times as much playtime on average...i guess they all just enjoy game without grinding at all...

I think you missed the point of what "control" means.

davoodoo, on 04 August 2017 - 05:24 PM, said:

Ive even downloaded it again after year break hoping that you actually speak the truth... so far all problems are compounded instead of fixed...

new resource for new weapons to restart grind all over again and lets not forget everyones favorite argon with half life of 24h
4 radiant keys still dropping 4x most common reward 5 times in row
new points to enter boss fight for a chance at drops
new rng mods which drop only at daily sortie+1 as quest reward(so far 3 days without any) and have chance to be better than anything before them...
old functionality locked behind arbitrary challenges...thx junctions, youre so good addition.
80% of new weapons were relegated to research yet again.
at least dressup is all intact with new suits for operators(which you see for less than a minute during 60 minutes runs) and melee weapon holster locations(copying from other weapon types)...
also i can still pop 4 on ember and go just run through mission, it indeed needed all that new powercreep guns because all that new content is just so much more challenging... no wait these are still 30lvl enemies which we fought back in u7 with 1/20th of firepower...

I get a feeling de would do great if they released mobile barbie game, everything in warframe fits that concept just fine.

Ok. I'm personally gonna end it here, you are literally whining for the sake of whining.

You go into low level content and complain about Ember FFS, how about using Ember in something higher level?

That would be like me complaining about how OP clans are when facing MG only STD 60 Urban mechs.

Your complaints about the riven mods are the same ones that were voiced when they first came out, and were silenced shortly after, once the player base actually got to use (no, they don't really make anything obsolete. Unless we're talking about literally the weakest weapons in the game, where riven mods have the CHANCE to give a more powerful buff.)

What new resources for weapons?

Argon is now found not just in the void, but every other tileset, and any reasonable human being can get 2-4 SOLO in one 5-8 minute void mission. I've yet to see a weapon, or frame that required more than 2 Argons, btw.

The junctions actually made it easier for people to clear the map, and get quests. Back in your day you only got XP for clearing the nodes. Now you get the planet's XP by clearing the junction. You're complaining about them streamlining the map exploration for crying outloud.

New weapons have always been one third dojo reasearch (super easy to do in one day, even in a solo clan), two thirds market BPs. Seriously, this one isn't even a complaint.

Honestly, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining, and it's not worth my time to continue this discussion any longer. You're right, we're all wrong.

---

Me when Odanan or Spooky777 release new MWO/BT art

[davoodoo]

IraqiWalker, on 05 August 2017 - 03:06 PM, said:

No, it's not. It would actually be more along the lines of PGI removing a paintjob that gave you +2% armor for the clans, and vaulting it, with MWO being a PVE game where you play as the clans, and with almost 0 PvP.

When Rhino Prime got vaulted, we still had Rhino in the game.



Again, false/misleading.

You can trade syndicate weapons, you can trade other items, and you can trade mods. Not to mention you can farm plat, by simply selling the syndicate weapons, and mods, and prime parts you get from missions. Again, I've spent maybe 200 dollars total on Warframe, yet I have a balance of plat many times worth that. Hell, if I want to actually sit down and grind plat, I can generate 160 plat pet week off syndicate weapons alone. That's aside from the rare mods I can sell from the missions.




You can also get 3 exilus adapters per week from Simaris alone. Maybe 4 if you really want to grind for them.

The legendary core is the single rarest, and most powerful item. It deserves that rarity. Everything else is actually very reasonable. Not to mention these are still the old drop tables from 2013-14.


Sorry RNG screwed you over, but I've never seen, or heard of anyone having to do even 1/4th of that to get their prime parts.
Especially considering the rarest prime parts have a drop rate of 11% (meaning 9-10 runs max before you get it, if you only do 20 minute runs, or 3-4 runs if you do 60 minute runs)


You have heard of "rad shares" right? Seriously, stop exaggerating and being so dramatic. Relics are a dime a dozen, and the traces for them are farmed in one mission. Also, you don't always need to rad the keys, if you pay attention to the drop percentages they have on the UI right there for you to see.


This part is flat out false (drop chances were not lowered), and the price for Frost prime didn't hit 900 plat until literally a year after its vaulting. In the mean time, new players had other bargains replacing it, that were just as good. Aside from all the free frames (like regular frost) that literally do the exact same thing, with having a gold trim on the frame.


Yeah, except for the part where WF is F2P, and literally costs 0 dollars to access the content.


So more than quadruple the average playtime on WF is what I'm seeing. Wanna tell me what you're getting at here?



I think you missed the point of what "control" means.


Ok. I'm personally gonna end it here, you are literally whining for the sake of whining.

You go into low level content and complain about Ember FFS, how about using Ember in something higher level?

That would be like me complaining about how OP clans are when facing MG only STD 60 Urban mechs.

Your complaints about the riven mods are the same ones that were voiced when they first came out, and were silenced shortly after, once the player base actually got to use (no, they don't really make anything obsolete. Unless we're talking about literally the weakest weapons in the game, where riven mods have the CHANCE to give a more powerful buff.)

What new resources for weapons?

Argon is now found not just in the void, but every other tileset, and any reasonable human being can get 2-4 SOLO in one 5-8 minute void mission. I've yet to see a weapon, or frame that required more than 2 Argons, btw.

The junctions actually made it easier for people to clear the map, and get quests. Back in your day you only got XP for clearing the nodes. Now you get the planet's XP by clearing the junction. You're complaining about them streamlining the map exploration for crying outloud.

New weapons have always been one third dojo reasearch (super easy to do in one day, even in a solo clan), two thirds market BPs. Seriously, this one isn't even a complaint.

Honestly, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining, and it's not worth my time to continue this discussion any longer. You're right, we're all wrong.

---

Me when Odanan or Spooky777 release new MWO/BT art

I havent heard such apologetics in long time.

1.you imply pay2win isnt pay2win and powercreep isnt powercreep just because game isnt competetive pvp...i think wow community would like word with you...

2.idk whether you are just pretending or are actually that stupid. Where does that plat come from?? in mwo event and supply cache mc is actually generated but in warframe every piece of plat in game is bought by someone...

sold 7 frosts day after vaulting for 700-1000p each...so youre telling ********...

11% prime?? radiant relics now have 10% chance for rare and this was actually upped from old 0.17%-1.73% for rares.
Btw u8/u9 lowest drop chance was 7.37% so where did you get 11%?? i know from your *** as drop tables were encoded and de is taking them down faster than they appear.
Why were they encoded though?? cause community pointed out that some thing appear few times in drop tables after steve said that they checked and theres no problem...yeah theyre hiding their own incompetence

rad shares still give 1 piece of loot...

Now it is f2p, thus it should attract more ppl than game which asks you to pay upfront, why doesnt it though??

Average playtime corresponds to amount of time ppl spend in game and as control i picked up
1)path of exile- diabloesque arpg with twice the steam playerbase of warframe
2)black desert online- buy to play korean style grinder with no lvl cap
3)planetside 2- fps which was lambasted for amount of grind to unlock anything
they all show lower hours spend on average, meaning hours spend playing which in those games is nearly entirely grind are lower thus grind is also lower...

median is center value, it will always be horribly short for f2p games due to ppl just checking out and logging off after 1st wall which shows why black desert despite smaller popularity have higher median...

What lower lvl content?? lvl100 stage 3 sorties?? **** they evaporate before they can get up after being knocked down by augment, i guess i should run endless with 0 incentive to do so...

http://warframe.wiki...exa-toxitio.jpg
i mean sure, that doesnt obsolete infected wound and stormbringer...
ppl went silent because de wont remove this so might aswell ******* sell those for obscene amount of plat... literally the same ppl who rightfuly complained about cosmetics with stats but still sold theirs for fat ******* plat once they acknowledged the decision that de wont bring them back.

kuva, nitain, previously tellerium, before that cryotic, argon, oxium and clan resources before that.
Literally anything to make sure ppl couldnt stockpile in prepararation.
Imagine if new mech pack came out and suddenly required cnotes to buy instead of normal cbills

Yeah and after hard grind for argon ill still need to repeat it as even 16k of those will decay within 2 weeks just in time for new patch to come out and have new batch of weapons requiring argon...

streamlining exploration?? so to clear eris junction which is located on pluto, i need to take detour to another end of galaxy to lua which requires me to do some story quests before that so i can kill 10 hunter type enemies which spawn in groups of 2-3 per mission and do 3 previously optional puzzles for mods i wouldnt use anyway and then i also need to go back to starting planet to kill boss there...
Wheres streamlining?? **** is more complicated than it ever was as you still need to clear path just like in days of starchart1.0 + all backtracking and sidelining... even starchart 2.0 was more streamlined than this...

also 2/3rds market?? since ive quit year ago they added 6 weapons to market and 16 which are research based... excluded anything that doesnt show in equip so no primes, syndicates and quest rewards.

you havent checked antyhing or feign ignorance.

**** today i logged in and met fellow officer from my old clan, ofc he asked why i wasnt playing so i responded "i couldnt take grind anymore and it seems it havent gotten any better" to which his answer was "yeah i know what you mean"...

I put idea of melee 2.0 to de back in closed beta and im still disappointed with what kind of grind they turned it into...

remember when i mentioned hunter style enemies which spawn in packs of 2-3 on lua?? yeah they come in 2 types and 1 of them drops this
Vengeful Revenant (0.42%)
prepare your *** for 500 runs...
someone actually put those numbers ingame, someone else tested it and steve himself ackonwledged it and all of them said "yeah that sounds alright"...thats how much they value their customers time, even if you decide to shill out someone still needs to farm it...

during 500 matches in mwo even if we apply very small 150k average per game, you can get 5 fully fitted fully skilled and even painted using oneshots mechs(4 if you decide to go for 100 tonners)

Edited by davoodoo, 06 August 2017 - 02:11 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

I already said I don't want to continue this, but I guess you really don't get it.

Look, I hate to break it to you, but you're beyond delusional. You're calling a game with over 15 times the concurrent player base, infinitely more content, and literally better performance in every metric than MWO, worse than MWO. At this point, you might want to take a step back, and re-evaluate how you view math, and reality.

You're also calling P2W in a PVE game. Do you even know what P2W means? Because that statement brings into question your grasp on the term. WoW actually has a very competitive, and active PvP scene. WF has virtually zero competitive PvP, and only some non-competitive PvP. For crying outloud, when people hear PvP in WF, they think dojo duels. Not Conclave.


As for the drop tables. You're still in U8/9. We're in Update 20/21 now. For the love of god, stop using examples that don't exist anymore.

Also, again with the exaggerated to flat out false claims. The Vengeful revenant stance takes about 500 kills (btw, that's kills not runs, Mr. hyperbole) by your numbers, right?

Bring one nekros, that's down to 250 kills, bring two nekros that's down to 170 kills, bring a hydroid, that's down to roughly 80-110 depending on how you use the tentacles. With an Ivara in there you can get at least one for the entire party of 4 in under 60 kills, which is about 20 runs if you're being lazy. Maybe even less, since you can spawn 3-6 per mission if you're quick, or more if you take your time.

The game actually has content, from quests, to events. MWO has released literally 0 in that regard. No, playing the same identical map, with no changes is not new content. Nor does it actually qualify as an event.

Here's how detached from reality you are:

The game is performing far beyond MWO in every respect, yet you're so stuck to your guns regardless of reality, that you're saying it's worse.

Even the examples you use are literally the extreme edge cases that you try and portray to be even worse than they are. You're literally trying to pick and choose the most extreme examples possible, and make them out to be the norm.

I'm sorry, but this is BS, pure and simple. If your words held a kindle of truth the game wouldn't be anywhere near as good as it is.

We have new quests, we have new content (like the Plains of Eidolon coming later this year), we actually have progress WF. Mech packs, and "events" where PGI literally has to put zero effort into aren't even on the same class.

Let's take a look at the Civil War event shall we? What modifiers are there? Any unique maps for the event? Any special mutators on those maps, or matches? no, no, and no. We're just playing the exact same thing we would be if the event wasn't there. It's literally identical.
Let's take a look at U.R.F. from League of Legends. Maps are the same. However, there are mutators out the wazoo for that one. Infinite cooldowns, extra resources ... etc. It brings a sense of change, and difference with it.

Let's take a look at the Rathuum event from WF, shall we? Unique map? Not really, in fact, it and the Halloween event the only ones that didn't have a unique map. it's the conclave maps. Unique mutators? Literally for every round (10 rounds per level, 4 levels), sometimes 2 modifiers per round. Unique enemies exclusive to the event? Yes.

Compare the MWO one to the other two. Do you see any difference? That is actual content.

Units in MWO are just a drop table. In WF? You have dojos that you and your clan mates build from the ground up to be opulent floating palaces where no two are similar. You get unique equipment that is only available in Dojos, and create your own misisons as a unit. That is player driven content that MWO sorely lacks.

I remember in April of last year, our clan of almost 300 players decided to build a gigantic tree in one of the largest rooms in our Dojo. It took us a long time (we upgraded to moon early into the project, which increased the resource requirement), and a lot of missions, and fun to get it complete. We even called it the Demonic Tree of Bankruptcy.

However, this was the result

Spoiler

We built a monument for ourselves

That was fun, and an experience that you can't get in MWO. Because we have almost zero player generated content in MWO, since the players can't do anything other than team deathmatch. Wazan was the last Player event in my book, it was friggin' glorious, but I fear we will never see anything like it ever again.


I love MWO, and it is a game I want to see thrive, and prosper. However, I'm not deluded enough to say it's better than WF. If anything, it is in a bad place right now, and desperately needs some proper content to keep people engaged.

Again: hate it if you want, that's your choice, but don't ignore reality, and don't exaggerate your claims. Both are F2P games, but one of them is wildly more successful than the other, and don't try to hide behind the BT lore etc. There is virtually no lore relevance in MWO right now. It's giant mechs fighting other giant mechs, which has mass appeal. So why is it that MWO isn't in the same league? Think about that.

I remember about a year and a half ago when some players did the math and guesstimated that MWO had about 27K max players (not peak. Max. As in, the entire playerbase.). Compare that to WF's 55,205 CONCURRENT players in the last 24 hours.

Both games have their flaws, but at the very least don't ignore reality.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 06 August 2017 - 04:14 PM.

[davoodoo]

Youre putting words in my mouth... only comparison i did between mwo and warframe is amount of grind...
I called it worse than payday2 and i stand by it, i called it less popular than path of exile based on steam metrics.
I wont answer to strawman since i didnt make argument to begin with...

Competetive pvp scene, where gear doesnt matter anymore as everyone is scaled. What you call that?? ah yes using "examples that dont exist anymore"

p2w is any advantage available for premium currency or direct purchases which isnt available otherwise. In case of warframe that would be arcane helmets and vaulted primes as they both offer advantage.
Is mwo pay2win by same standards?? yes it is. Payday?? ofc, most aaa titles?? yes.

Which one?? vengeful revenant which was added if i remember right in u18?? or maybe how i burned through 263(48 radiant) relics during last 3 days and havent got 1 full prime except galantine which i bought from someone... Also 167 of those runs were done with my friend targeting those drops


https://www.reddit.c...g_your_chances/
everything you mentioned, 244 runs no drops...i did over 300 with nekros and hydroid...

also idk where did you get 3 kills per run since only conculyst drops it and sentients spawn in groups of 2 or 3 with at most 2 of the same kind. So average of 1.5kill per run.

Also lets compare some solid numbers cause these are random drops, how did research costs increased.
When u8 first hit we had supra which required.
10k creds
10 fieldron samples
250 plastids
500 ferrite
500 polymers

now recently we got lenz
7.5k creds
1k fieldron sampless
1.2k alloys
7.5k polymers
50 neurodes

but grind havent increased...

lets go further.
before u7 basic weapons like latron, burston, snipetron, aklato, furis, afuris, bronco and lex were available for 15-50k credits.(or first 1-2 missions) with braton and lato being available at start.
by u7 they were removed from store and sold as blueprints which require materials which werent available for some time.
by u14, years later de finally decided to introduce worse version of those weapons as starting ones.

Edited by davoodoo, 06 August 2017 - 06:18 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

davoodoo, on 06 August 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

p2w is any advantage available for premium currency or direct purchases which isnt available otherwise. In case of warframe that would be arcane helmets and vaulted primes as they both offer advantage.
Is mwo pay2win by same standards?? yes it is. Payday?? ofc, most aaa titles?? yes.

Oh boy do I have issues with that. MWO is many things, but it is NOT P2W. Only people who'd call it pay to win are ones who've never actually played P2W games.

Let me give you a dose of what P2W looks like. a 1 ton, 1 slot PPC that has no minimum range, and deals 25 per damage, while generating only 5 heat, that can only be purchased by MC or dollar transactions. THAT is P2W.

Having a mech be behind a paywall for a short period of time, before everyone gets it, is not even close. It's even less applicable in the case of PvE games, and especially WF, where the Primes offer an almost negligible advantage.The difference between Rhino Prime, and regular Rhino is is 85 points of armor more for the Prime, and and 0.05 difference in sprint speed.

That's an insignificant movement speed bonus, and the armor difference ends up being around what? 3% more in damage reduction? On Rhino. The frame that uses Iron skin, the ability that renders it invulnerable anyways?

The abilities of primes deal the same amount of damage to the abilities of non-primes. they last the same duration, cost the same amount of energy, and take the same amount of time to cast.

You want to talk Pay to Win? Bring that up when we get a prime that has better abilities than the regular. Bring that up when you can't farm prime frames.

davoodoo, on 06 August 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

Which one?? vengeful revenant which was added if i remember right in u17?? or maybe how i burned through 263 relics during last 3 days and havent got 1 full prime except galantine which i bought from someone...

Ok. Either you got really shafted by RNG, or it's BS. 263 relics means you did 263 missions, or at least an insane number of endless missions over the past 3 days. Almost to the point of no sleep, actually. Which I'm not likely to believe, and also weakens your position. If the game is so sucky, why did you go through so much?

davoodoo, on 06 August 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

https://www.reddit.c...g_your_chances/
everything you mentioned, 244 runs no drops...i did over 300 with nekros and hydroid...

also idk where did you get 3 kills per run since only conculyst drops it and sentients spawn in groups of 2 or 3 with at most 2 of the same kind. So average of 1.5kill per run.

Let's go back to my statement on that. You can spawn 3-6 of them per run (they always spawn in 3s when you trigger both occulysts), if you're being lazy. 1 batalyst, and 2 conculysts is usually what spawns. Rarely (as in very rarely), you might get 2 batalysts, and one conculyst. That's 3 per mission.

davoodoo, on 06 August 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

Also lets compare some solid numbers cause these are random drops, how did research costs increased.
When u8 first hit we had supra which required.
10k creds
10 fieldron samples
250 plastids
500 ferrite
500 polymers

now recently we got lenz
7.5k creds
1k fieldron sampless
1.2k alloys
7.5k polymers
50 neurodes

but grind havent increased...

Yes, the grind hasn't increased, because if you were being accurate, you'd account for all the resource drop rate increases, and the farming frames that can double or triple those drop rates (Nekros was added in U10, and he alone doubled the drop rate of all resources per mission. With Hydroid helping to almost triple it if both are on the same mission). 1K fieldron samples are farmed in a couple 20-30 minute runs (my clan literally had the research materials gathered. Plus the fact that throughout ALL missions, you are getting resource drops every single mission. It's not even much of a grind.

This all takes even less time if your clan was stockpiling resources, like virtually every non-dead clan does.

Hell, I currently have several thousand fieldron samples in my inventory from just passively farming them while I'm doing other missions.

If you don't have at least 40K Alloy in your inventory, just from running a few missions a day, then I don't know what it is you're doing. A regular solo run can net you near 500+ in a mission you're absent mindedly doing. You get significantly more with a 4 man farming squad. Combine that over weeks of us doing missions in between weapon releases, and that's not even a question.

Polymers same as fieldron samples
Neurodes is the rare one, and that could take some time, however, most people have at least around 60+ in their inventory just from doing Earth, and derelict missions (a popular leveling node, and also farming rare corrupted mods there, as well)

davoodoo, on 06 August 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

lets go further.
before u7 basic weapons like latron, burston, snipetron, aklato, furis, afuris, bronco and lex were available for 15-50k credits.(or first 1-2 missions) with braton and lato being available at start.
by u7 they were removed from store and sold as blueprints which require materials which werent available for some time.
by u14, years later de finally decided to introduce worse version of those weapons as starting ones.

quite a few of those are available for creds, plus more available at start, and the rest require basic resource gathering, which is part of the game. You gather resources, and you build stuff.

[davoodoo]

IraqiWalker, on 06 August 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

Oh boy do I have issues with that. MWO is many things, but it is NOT P2W. Only people who'd call it pay to win are ones who've never actually played P2W games.

Let me give you a dose of what P2W looks like. a 1 ton, 1 slot PPC that has no minimum range, and deals 25 per damage, while generating only 5 heat, that can only be purchased by MC or dollar transactions. THAT is P2W.

Having a mech be behind a paywall for a short period of time, before everyone gets it, is not even close. It's even less applicable in the case of PvE games, and especially WF, where the Primes offer an almost negligible advantage.The difference between Rhino Prime, and regular Rhino is is 85 points of armor more for the Prime, and and 0.05 difference in sprint speed.

That's an insignificant movement speed bonus, and the armor difference ends up being around what? 3% more in damage reduction? On Rhino. The frame that uses Iron skin, the ability that renders it invulnerable anyways?

The abilities of primes deal the same amount of damage to the abilities of non-primes. they last the same duration, cost the same amount of energy, and take the same amount of time to cast.

You want to talk Pay to Win? Bring that up when we get a prime that has better abilities than the regular. Bring that up when you can't farm prime frames.


Ok. Either you got really shafted by RNG, or it's BS. 263 relics means you did 263 missions, or at least an insane number of endless missions over the past 3 days. Almost to the point of no sleep, actually. Which I'm not likely to believe, and also weakens your position. If the game is so sucky, why did you go through so much?


Let's go back to my statement on that. You can spawn 3-6 of them per run (they always spawn in 3s when you trigger both occulysts), if you're being lazy. 1 batalyst, and 2 conculysts is usually what spawns. Rarely (as in very rarely), you might get 2 batalysts, and one conculyst. That's 3 per mission.



Yes, the grind hasn't increased, because if you were being accurate, you'd account for all the resource drop rate increases, and the farming frames that can double or triple those drop rates (Nekros was added in U10, and he alone doubled the drop rate of all resources per mission. With Hydroid helping to almost triple it if both are on the same mission). 1K fieldron samples are farmed in a couple 20-30 minute runs (my clan literally had the research materials gathered. Plus the fact that throughout ALL missions, you are getting resource drops every single mission. It's not even much of a grind.

This all takes even less time if your clan was stockpiling resources, like virtually every non-dead clan does.

Hell, I currently have several thousand fieldron samples in my inventory from just passively farming them while I'm doing other missions.

If you don't have at least 40K Alloy in your inventory, just from running a few missions a day, then I don't know what it is you're doing. A regular solo run can net you near 500+ in a mission you're absent mindedly doing. You get significantly more with a 4 man farming squad. Combine that over weeks of us doing missions in between weapon releases, and that's not even a question.

Polymers same as fieldron samples
Neurodes is the rare one, and that could take some time, however, most people have at least around 60+ in their inventory just from doing Earth, and derelict missions (a popular leveling node, and also farming rare corrupted mods there, as well)

quite a few of those are available for creds, plus more available at start, and the rest require basic resource gathering, which is part of the game. You gather resources, and you build stuff.

No, 1 ton ppc which deals 25 is just broken design regardless of its price...

i wonder why 1% stat increases on cosmetics in payday had to be defended by getting rid of bonus stats on those instead of "its not pay2win cause pay2win isnt pvp and it doesnt make you 10 times as powerful".
Any miniscule advantage you can be offered by paying real money is pay2win.

From mwo, reaver roughneck with its godly uac quirks or the new ebj hero which will have 2 high mounted ballistics, These are clear advantages.

Primes have higher energy capacity, higher shields, higher hp, higher armor. Thats advantage.

So i and my founder friend both got shafted?? k mate...

Rly?? capture or exterminate run is less than 5 mins which gives us 12 runs per hour which gives us 22 hours spread over 3 days or 7.5hours a day. Excavation gives us reward every 3 minutes so its even faster...

Why did i do it, you claimed it got better, i decided to believe you and came back to see for myself...

1 oculyst per run, more are only spawned on endless.

100 times drops?? even if we include booster **** didnt happen...you ******* lie...
also vivengate and egategate says hello, maybe you got nekros but you lost mass aoe spam which contributed more to number of drops.

So to not lie let me pull numbers from game.
i have 223.871 control modules in my inventory and 9.999.999 alloys,30.142 polymers and 0 neural sensors...
You know where these huge stockpiles came from?? void keys farming for primes.

also throughout my 3 years playtime i managed to get 7.317 fieldron samples and i havent contributed 1 to research and lenz alone requires 1/7th of that to research...

edit: finally got my 1st prime after 308 runs which is cernos prime ofc not miy drop.

Edited by davoodoo, 07 August 2017 - 02:15 AM.

[Requiemking]

Ok fellas, if you want to keep arguing about this, I would suggest you take it to another thread.

Back to the Gifs.

"You have angered me for the last time"


Says me while in a MLX-Prime.

[RestosIII]

Taking the missiles off of a Timber Wolf or Mad Cat MK II

[davoodoo]

Running is uac10

[IraqiWalker]

davoodoo, on 06 August 2017 - 06:25 PM, said:

No, 1 ton ppc which deals 25 is just broken design regardless of its price...

i wonder why 1% stat increases on cosmetics in payday had to be defended by getting rid of bonus stats on those instead of "its not pay2win cause pay2win isnt pvp and it doesnt make you 10 times as powerful".
Any miniscule advantage you can be offered by paying real money is pay2win.

From mwo, reaver roughneck with its godly uac quirks or the new ebj hero which will have 2 high mounted ballistics, These are clear advantages.

Primes have higher energy capacity, higher shields, higher hp, higher armor. Thats advantage.

So i and my founder friend both got shafted?? k mate...

Rly?? capture or exterminate run is less than 5 mins which gives us 12 runs per hour which gives us 22 hours spread over 3 days or 7.5hours a day. Excavation gives us reward every 3 minutes so its even faster...

Why did i do it, you claimed it got better, i decided to believe you and came back to see for myself...

1 oculyst per run, more are only spawned on endless.

100 times drops?? even if we include booster **** didnt happen...you ******* lie...
also vivengate and egategate says hello, maybe you got nekros but you lost mass aoe spam which contributed more to number of drops.

So to not lie let me pull numbers from game.
i have 223.871 control modules in my inventory and 9.999.999 alloys,30.142 polymers and 0 neural sensors...
You know where these huge stockpiles came from?? void keys farming for primes.

also throughout my 3 years playtime i managed to get 7.317 fieldron samples and i havent contributed 1 to research and lenz alone requires 1/7th of that to research...

edit: finally got my 1st prime after 308 runs which is cernos prime ofc not miy drop.

I've contributed thousands to clan research/projects, and I still have 6589

Spoiler

Requiemking, on 06 August 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

Ok fellas, if you want to keep arguing about this, I would suggest you take it to another thread.

Back to the Gifs.

"You have angered me for the last time"


Says me while in a MLX-Prime.

Fair enough



Watching an enemy teammate pull a leeroy jenkins


For those not familiar with the reference

Spoiler

Edited by IraqiWalker, 08 August 2017 - 03:33 PM.

[RestosIII]

Stealth armor+camo paint+a super obvious decal.

[MW222]

Tactics 101.

Game Play and Rumors.

Has there have been a slow down in Mod/PGI sightings lately?

-

-

No wait, there's two........

[Andi Nagasia]

MW222, on 08 August 2017 - 01:32 PM, said:

Tactics 101.

Game Play and Rumors.

Has there have been a slow down in Mod/PGI sightings lately?

-

-

No wait, there's two........

we are here,



O and about all that Text and so little Gifs?
i say Gifs = Happyness, that said,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 08 August 2017 - 02:38 PM.

[MW222]

Tactics 101.

Just a Reminder. There is a reverse view option when your spectating.

Please don't drool and for Blakes sake blink once in a while.