1126 replies to this topic

[Ratpoison]

If I want to roll dice for my hits I'll go play the tabletop.

[Mystere]

tortuousGoddess, on 10 April 2015 - 08:31 PM, said:

If I want to roll dice for my hits I'll go play the tabletop.

But reticule shake is also implemented by "rolling dice". So I guess it's off to the tabletop you go.

Edited by Mystere, 10 April 2015 - 08:39 PM.

[CHH Badkarma]

tortuousGoddess, on 10 April 2015 - 08:31 PM, said:

If I want to roll dice for my hits I'll go play the tabletop.

this....

Not to mention, I do not see the majority of new/fps shooter type players sticking around when they no longer hit what they are shooting at consistently. The die hards will, but the younger/ new folks I doubt it. With player retention being rather low, or maybe just outright the growth of the player base that would probably be a bad idea

[A Large Infant]

At this point player retention is a foregone conclusion, might as well make a solid product before MWO is gone forever and try to salvage at least some of PGI's laughingstock reputation

[Ratpoison]

Mystere, on 10 April 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

But reticule shake is also implemented by "rolling dice". So I guess it's off to the tabletop you go.

Sweet salty jumpsniper tears, you must be pretty bitter to bring that up here and pretend it's relevant.

[Dimento Graven]

Mystere, on 10 April 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

But reticule shake is also implemented by "rolling dice".So I guess it's off to the tabletop you go.

At least with "jumping" and with "heat" there's something more behind why the RNG is activated, something more than just "REASONS!!!"...

[Mcgral18]

It's a non argument. People want their easy mode, and PGI wants to get the largest audience possible.

That involves making generic shooty robot game, and not a true Battletech video game.



Perfectly understandable. We don't need another 20 pages of people crying "But Muh Skill!" as their weapons magically converge.

PGI is never going to change this.

Edited by Mcgral18, 10 April 2015 - 09:29 PM.

[DefinitelyNotMwHighlander]

Mcgral18, on 10 April 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

PGI is never going to change this.

I know that but...

...why must you hurt me like this?

[Mcgral18]

DefinitelyNotMwHighlander, on 10 April 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

I know that but...

...why must you hurt me like this?

We've both been here long enough to realize it.


At least it's a fun generic robot shooter.

[Dimento Graven]

Mcgral18, on 10 April 2015 - 09:26 PM, said:

It's a non argument. People want their easy mode, and PGI wants to get the largest audience possible.

That involves making generic shooty robot game, and not a true Battletech video game.



Perfectly understandable. We don't need another 20 pages of people crying "But Muh Skill!" as their weapons magically converge.

PGI is never going to change this.

Yes, because randomly "missing" is supposed to be oh so much more "fun".

No, it's just that when they miss YOU it's more fun for YOU.

We really do get it.

[Khobai]

cone of fire randomness has no place in the game whatsoever

I already presented several non-random solutions to pinpoint damage.

plus you know we could try fixing the highly flawed heat system...

[Mcgral18]

Dimento Graven, on 10 April 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Yes, because randomly "missing" is supposed to be oh so much more "fun".

No, it's just that when they miss YOU it's more fun for YOU.

We really do get it.

No, no randomness needed.

Just don't have two guns which are fixed not magically converge. At least not instantly.
Servers can't handle that last part.


We know you don't want any additional skill involved with this game.
We know it would be too hard for you.


Don't worry, it's not going to change. You don't need to defend your easy mode, because it's never going to change.

[DeathlyEyes]

Absolutely not. This is a shooter not role play fantasy game. I want to see convergence go a step further and converge on locked target distance. That way gauss rounds don't go to either side of mechs. As of now this game has little skill left in it. You set up a firing line and it turns into civil war style battle lines until one side breaks. This isn't a thinking man's shooter. Side note: This is 3050, I think the mechs would have nearly perfect accuracy, especially with lasers.

Another side note: Whatever is done to this game, the top tier players will always max min as long as customization is in the game.

Edited by DeathlyEyes, 10 April 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Stop it already: Lights are invulnerable enough now, cuz you can't hold your aim on them for long enough due to ping/desync/discretization problems, which causes loss of convergence and firing "through" them as the result. MWO is shooter in a first place and overcomplicated mechanics - is what will kill any shooter. Do you know, why Starsiege sucked? Because due to terrible weapon mechanics you actually could not hit ANYTHING! Do you want to turn MWO into it?

Edited by MrMadguy, 10 April 2015 - 10:56 PM.

[Mystere]

tortuousGoddess, on 10 April 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Sweet salty jumpsniper tears, you must be pretty bitter to bring that up here and pretend it's relevant.

Actually, I've never been into jump sniping during it's heyday. I was more into shooting clay pigeons.

But, I should tell you that the Urbie is a fantastic jump sniper. That 360-degree rotation is sweet for tracking a potential victim while hiding.

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 10 April 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

At least with "jumping" and with "heat" there's something more behind why the RNG is activated, something more than just "REASONS!!!"...

Ahem! What's the difference between jump sniping and "run and gun"? In the former, you're moving vertically while firing. In the latter, you're moving laterally while firing.

Yet, you now sound as if you approve of the RNG Devil when someone is jump sniping. This gives me the uncanny feeling that those big bad jump snipers touched you in all the wrong places.

Edited by Mystere, 11 April 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[JustEvil]

Excuse me, but why is everyone throwing shooter term everywhere?

Quote

MECHWARRIOR ONLINE

A tactical BattleMech simulation set in 3050 AD. As a pilot known as a "MechWarrior", you are about to take control of the most powerful mechanical battle units the universe has ever seen.

Here I can read that it is a simulation. Unfortunately, with pisspoor small maps and other arcadey stuff, game isn't even close to it. So maybe let's change this description first, before we turn this game into Call of Mechwarrior?

MrMadguy, on 10 April 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

Do you want to turn MWO into it?

I want MWO to turn more into sim and less into arcade.

Edited by JustEvil, 10 April 2015 - 11:34 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 January 2015 - 02:33 AM, said:

Id rather a CoF over limiting My way to fight. I'm an unabashed heavy hitter. I love smashing the alpha to make you say OUCH! I studied Wing Chun Do So I could learn how to hit someone with the equivalent of 10 times my body weight with a single punch! Thats right a Punch hitting with 2,840lbs of force!

[Quxudica]

Dimento Graven, on 10 April 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

Yes, but give us some specifics. How do you envision it working?

What's the cut off? More than 2 weapons fired at once? 3? 4?

Is it graduated? The more weapons you fire at once, the more RNG hits you?

Honestly I'd be fine with any of those. The more weapons you fire at once the larger an area you hit with them. You don't get to fire 8-12 weapons and have them all hit the same component. I also think individual weapons should have their own convergence characteristics. Two AC/5's might converge reasonably well but a third doesn't (disclosure, my favorite mech is a JM6 that uses 3x AC/5. Actually every mech I use routinely would be among the builds impacted by the changes I'd like to see) . Additionally, firing multiple different types of weapons is also less advantagous. A brawling Atlas no longer spams all his SRMs, Lasers and ACs at once in standard combat, instead he aims each of his weapons before firing. When the target finally has armor peeled and the Atlas sees his opening for the coup de grace, that is when he goes all in for an Alpha Strike.

Also you don't have to make it RNG at all. You can have it so if you fire 8 torso mounted weapons three times in a row without moving they all impact the same location every time - it's just not the same shared location for all 8 weapons. Maybe the right side of the torso and left side have their own points of convergence, so it would work the same as now you would just have to correct your aim and fire them four at a time instead of all 8 at once. Also different chassis, and different variants within could have their own unique convergence layouts to further differentiate them from eachother. The convergence changes don't even need to be huge, I'm not suggesting that a 12 weapon alpha should have a massive grouping, maybe it's just changed just enough to cause you to hit three components instead of just one (using a medium as the target size for reference).

This change would help a lot but it really needs to be coupled with a heat system rebuild. The two things in tandem are what is needed to get MWO back on track and away from the arcadey one buttong wonder model it has right now (yes, mild hyperbole, but really only very mild).

My dream scenario, as a result of these changes, would be to create a game in which two mechs (lets say identical brawlers for the sake of simplicity) meet one vs one. The fight drags out as both mechs choose to fire fewer weapons at a time, resulting in an increased importance in both aim and shielding. In such a situation where TTK has significantly increased and neither mech is capable of nigh instantly removing critical armor in one massive burst anymore, you start to see openings for new choices. Maybe mech A chooses to focus on a straight kill (choosing a torso target like he would in current mwo) while the other decides to try and strip mech A's lighter armored arms. In current MWO mech B would flat out lose, as there's no situation (outside of maybe a wolverine or dragon) in which trying to strip weapons is going to win over simply trying to core the other guy, but in this version mech B's pilot has made a more considered targeting decision that can give him the advantage while mech A is putting less thought into the situation.

This moves the game away from being just a reflex focused twitch shooter, towards being more of a tactical shooter. Reflexes still matter, the fight ultimately would still end in reasonable time, you aren't having long periods of people just thinking, you simply have extended TTK just enough to open up more oppurtunity for choice. This game was marketed as the "Thinking Mans Shooter", but the current model doesn't play out that way, you aren't really tasked with placing much more thought into a fight in current MWO than you are in any other shooter.

Edited by Quxudica, 11 April 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[MrMadguy]

JustEvil, on 10 April 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

I want MWO to turn more into sim and less into arcade.

Lol. Parts of 'Mech, destroyable separately, making hundreds of armor useless (cuz you can be killed via headshoot) - that's what turns MW into sim, not superovercomlicated game mechanics. It would be turned into arcade only via replacing armor with HP. You should clearly understand the difference between "challenge" and "bad game design". Overcomplicated and counterintuitive game mechanics are not "challenging" or "realistic" - they are just simple BAD GAME DESIGN. Wanna play WWII flight sim - go play WWII flight sim.
This game is challenging:

And this game simply has bad game design: