198 replies to this topic

[Black Arachne]

PGI has made it clear that the so called heat system in this game is broken....better to fix it than have to quirk several mechs and upcoming mechs with -heat quirks. Especially when most of these mechs had enough heatsinks be viable to begin with, and for all those min/maxers restrict the size of the hardpoints to control how much damage they can output.

Edited by Black Arachne, 21 January 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Clint Steel, on 21 January 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Internal damage due to overheating is pretty high as it is, on top of that its random where the heat goes. I've cockpited myself twice with all other internals being untouched.

Twice in how many games?

I don't think it's high at all. My 4xCERPPC Warhawk is overheating all day. I probably overheat 20 times per match. As long as you overheat at the right time, the positives outweigh the negatives. And unless you fire all 4 CERPPCs while you're at 99% heat, you probably won't take more than a few percent damage either.

I don't think I've ever died by overheating unless I did it intentionally. The only exception is when I've accidentally fired all 12 lasers on my Nova, due to a little twitch in my fingers.

[Alex Morgaine]

LordKnightFandragon, on 21 January 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

Yes, PGI should reinvent their heat scale.

Hard cap, heatsinks only increasing the speed which we cool off, not the cap we can get to. 40-50 points would be a good spot. It would allow us to alpha a little, but only once, maybe twice if its a small alpha. It would limit people being able to fire off heaps of really hot weapons.

Ballistics would still be good as they gain little heat. So, idk what we could do there to keep it from just becoming cannonwarrior online....but meh.

THen add heat penalties at various points along the way.

If we have a 50 point heat scale, lets say
0-25 is a free zone, no penalities
26-30: we suffer 10% less acceleration and overall mobility
35-40: Targeting systems fail, we cant get locks on targets and are un able to R mechs
41-45ECM/BAP/AMS/TAG/NARC and other electronic devices begin to fail and do not work.
46-49: We suffer 0.5 point of core damage per second we remain above 46 heat.
50+: We shut down, suffering 1 point of core damage per second we remain above 50 heat. We cannot turn back on until our mech has reached the 25 point free zone.

All effects are accumulative.

Most of that is in the game in some way or shape, people can still alpha if they want to accept penalties, and we can tweak numbers if that isn't working. Plus while pilot skills could be revamped, the current set could be retained indefinitely without to much breakage. 20% bonus(marry mastery is 20 right) would be 10 heat, but it'd still suffer past 25 heat, just not shut down at 50. If it's more, well that what number tweaking is for.
My visionary side would like to see limited/no convergence for torso weapons and let arms keep auto converge myself. Might help break up auto alpha mechs by making you aim left/right weapons in sequence instead of all at once.

Ugh.stupid phone.

Edited by Frosty Brand, 21 January 2015 - 07:57 PM.

[Clint Steel]

Alistair Winter, on 21 January 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

Twice in how many games?

I don't think it's high at all. My 4xCERPPC Warhawk is overheating all day. I probably overheat 20 times per match. As long as you overheat at the right time, the positives outweigh the negatives. And unless you fire all 4 CERPPCs while you're at 99% heat, you probably won't take more than a few percent damage either.

I don't think I've ever died by overheating unless I did it intentionally. The only exception is when I've accidentally fired all 12 lasers on my Nova, due to a little twitch in my fingers.

just since they added the toggle

[Matthew Ace]

We got to do something about boated ballistics being too efficient if we want a rework of heat system to work.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Here's my heat rework plan:

1 - Remove ghost heat.

2 - Make SHS provide -.3 heat per second and DHS -.5 HPS.

3 - Set base heat capacity at 20. Have both SHS and DHS add 1 to the capacity.

4 - Add a dynamic heat penalty system, with penalties kicking in at 50% heat. Penalties should include a max speed reduction, dynamic precision reduction (deviation around the point of aim), weapon recycle delays, and sluggish maneuvering (turning, twisting, and arm reflex). These should start out very slight and scale upward as the heat climbs.

Do these things and heat would very likely be as it ought, a resource to be managed with real downsides to pushing too hard and real advantages to learning how it works.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Clint Steel, on 21 January 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Internal damage due to overheating is pretty high as it is, on top of that its random where the heat goes. I've cockpited myself twice with all other internals being untouched.

LOL, the only way to over heat yourself is to fire so much you stay way over 100%, no, overheat damage is not to high. It takes forever to trigger it. Only if your obscenely bad at keeping heat below 100%, then you even suffer from it at all. Ive never once blown up in a game...ofc, ive played all of 103 games....but still. Heat management is one thing I try to keep control of.

Clint Steel, on 21 January 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

just since they added the toggle

Yeah, throwing caution to the wind and just trying to lolpha as much as possible.....lol.

Matthew Ace, on 21 January 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

We got to do something about boated ballistics being too efficient if we want a rework of heat system to work.

Cannon jam mechanics for all ballistics at certain heat lvls. Reduce ammo cap to 1x like TT instead of 1.5x.

[Serpieri]

Matthew Ace, on 21 January 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

We got to do something about boated ballistics being too efficient if we want a rework of heat system to work.

Ballistics were supposed to be balanced by weight/ammo/explosions but instead ammo was doubled/chance for ammo explosions were drastically reduced allowing ballistic mechs to continually fire while energy mechs that attempted to fight back would overheat and shutdown due to PGI's poor heat system and ghost heat mechanics.

And to this date, I've only ran out of ammo twice since playing and it's because I was intentionally wasting rounds to kill time...and the one time I remeber dieing to an ammo explosion my mech was hanging around 12%.. So what was PGI's response to this - adding more weapons to Ghost Heat.....

End this already PGI.

Edited by Serpieri, 21 January 2015 - 06:37 PM.

[Mirkk Defwode]

YES.

Though I think a different heat system that's dynamic in more ways including the number of heatsinks and what type should be put in its place. If I can find my ancient suggestion thread post on an entirely new suggested system I'll repost it here.

Edit: Couldn't find my post...it's too old now.

Did come across. http://mwomercs.com/...d-for-the-game/ which is awesome.

Edited by Mirkk Defwode, 21 January 2015 - 07:36 PM.

[Anjian]

I would go with:

Removing ghost heat.
Adjust all maps to a human tolerable level of heat (up to 35C).

Escalated penalties for excess heat.
First Stage: Mech will shut down
Third Stage: Mech internal damage (random progressive damage, resulting in loss of mech mobility and movement, increased cooldown time or decreased firing rates, temporary weapons jam, malfunction of instruments, loss of HP).
Break stage: More progressive mech internal damage, including permanent damage or meltdown of energy weapons and random ammunition explosions.

[ArchSight]

Yes, rework heat system to lower the amount of alpha strikes taken by player's to make alpha strikes into a more valuable choice of: Should I alpha the 20-55 ton mechs or should I alpha the 60-100 ton mechs?

[Fiona Marshe]

We've been complaining about the broken heatscale ever since the introduction of DHS and the compound benefits.

Heatscale needs to be 20+# heatsinks (regardless of type) instead of the abortificant we currently have. Heat balance was good in Closed Beta where the Awesome was the only mech able to run lots of PPCs due to the large number of SHS carried.

[Matthew Ace]

Serpieri, on 21 January 2015 - 06:36 PM, said:

Ballistics were supposed to be balanced by weight/ammo/explosions but instead ammo was doubled/chance for ammo explosions were drastically reduced allowing ballistic mechs to continually fire while energy mechs that attempted to fight back would overheat and shutdown due to PGI's poor heat system and ghost heat mechanics.

And to this date, I've only ran out of ammo twice since playing and it's because I was intentionally wasting rounds to kill time...and the one time I remeber dieing to an ammo explosion my mech was hanging around 12%.. So what was PGI's response to this - adding more weapons to Ghost Heat.....

End this already PGI.

LordKnightFandragon, on 21 January 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

LOL, the only way to over heat yourself is to fire so much you stay way over 100%, no, overheat damage is not to high. It takes forever to trigger it. Only if your obscenely bad at keeping heat below 100%, then you even suffer from it at all. Ive never once blown up in a game...ofc, ive played all of 103 games....but still. Heat management is one thing I try to keep control of.




Yeah, throwing caution to the wind and just trying to lolpha as much as possible.....lol.




Cannon jam mechanics for all ballistics at certain heat lvls. Reduce ammo cap to 1x like TT instead of 1.5x.

I missed out mentioning I meant risk of using ballistics. However, lowering the ammo just isnt the way to go; You have some clan mechs already struggling for ammo if they use ballistics and i would like for them to keep their locked engine/internals/armor type. And theres also CW.

Restore chance of ammoboom back to 100%.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Frosty Brand, on 21 January 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Most of that is in the game in some way or shape, people can still alpha if they want to accept penalties, and we can tweak numbers if that isn't working. Plus while pilot skills could be revamped, the current set could be retained indefinitely without to much breakage. 20% bonus(marry mastery is 20 right) would be 10 heat, but it'd still suffer past 25 heat, just not shut down at 50. If it's more, well that what number tweaking is for.
My visionary side would like to see limited/no convergence for torso weapons and let arms keep auto converge myself. Might help break up auto alpha mechs by making you aim left/right weapons in sequence instead of all at once.

Ugh.stupid phone.

No it isnt. We have 0 heat penalties. Only thing we have is a momentary shut down and some core damage.

[Clint Steel]

LordKnightFandragon, on 21 January 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

LOL, the only way to over heat yourself is to fire so much you stay way over 100%, no, overheat damage is not to high. It takes forever to trigger it. Only if your obscenely bad at keeping heat below 100%, then you even suffer from it at all. Ive never once blown up in a game...ofc, ive played all of 103 games....but still. Heat management is one thing I try to keep control of.




Yeah, throwing caution to the wind and just trying to lolpha as much as possible.....lol.




Cannon jam mechanics for all ballistics at certain heat lvls. Reduce ammo cap to 1x like TT instead of 1.5x.

Three times cockpited by heat now, since toggle.



I'm not saying there is too much heat damage, just that there is enough, especially with the random chance of all heat damage going into your cockpit.

Edited by Clint Steel, 21 January 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Clint Steel, on 21 January 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

Three times cockpited by heat now, since toggle.



I'm not saying there is too much heat damage, just that there is enough, especially with the random chance of all heat damage going into your cockpit.

LOL, call the cockpit damage your pilot dying from heat exhaustion.

[Clint Steel]

LordKnightFandragon, on 21 January 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

LOL, call the cockpit damage your pilot dying from heat exhaustion.

I know, I wish instead of an explosion, the cockpit would fill with steam and my guy would pass out

[LordKnightFandragon]

Clint Steel, on 21 January 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

I know, I wish instead of an explosion, the cockpit would fill with steam and my guy would pass out

Would be cool wouldnt it? Have the pilot actually be a part of the mech. Then we could have Mech skill tree and Pilot skill tree.

[Hotthedd]

Cavadus, on 21 January 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

This would require reducing armor to TT levels which would be a monumental mistake.

It would not require any adjustment to armor at all. It would just be a way to discourage an all ballistics meta.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Ghost Heat must burn