182 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 24 January 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I don't want the urbie to be half the size of a spider, once you get under the 8m mark it because very difficult to explain how a full sized adult fits in the head of the mech.

The one Light that needs a minor rework is the Commando. All of the others are fine with the cockpit fitting inside.

Check this thread out: http://mwomercs.com/...line-asset-art/

Edited by Praetor Knight, 24 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 24 January 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

This picture made me realize something...

...the in game models are often times smaller than their TT counterparts, in relation to other mechs in game.

Yes....except the only ones actually "properly" scaled are actually the Lights, and MAYBE the Hunchback. All the rest are massively too large. The Atlas by nearly 5 meters. (Atlas is NOT NOT NOT the tallest mech. The Banshee, for one, was taller. Atlas was too wide and broad to be that tall)

Also even that guide...is questionable. Vulture is a little too tall, and the Summoner is supposed to actually be taller than the Hellbringer, but overall it¡s pretty decent.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 January 2015 - 03:58 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

this is what happens when they give it 360 rotation and a engine that makes it a sprinter.

you get a dustbin on steriods

[Rasc4l]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 January 2015 - 07:00 PM, said:

Much more R2D2, yes?

Urbie, IMO, and by lore, should be about Commando height, or a skosh shorter, but with that beer keg torso like a hunchback. Since the model hasn't even been started, maybe if enough people agree, we can get the proportions changed (even slightly).

What say you guys?

Your assessment of how it should be seems right. While I wasn't planning of buying it anyhow (especially since the engine ratings remain unknown and I already got the resistance pack), the picture just looked wrong. Perhaps PGI should consult you in mech sizes in general, because you have a decent artistic eye and apparently a better grasp of mech sizes (the giant mediums in the game are maybe the worst manifestation of this problem).

[ForceUser]

Just putting this quote here for reference:

ForceUser, on 24 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Well you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of them all of the time. Some might like the new updated look (it fits in with the rest of the updated mechs' looks) and some might actually not like the 'original' design. PGI has to decide if they want to cater to the old school guys who want an original urbie (and thus have one sore thumb design) or newer players who does not necessarily get the old design but still want to play with a light mech that has special rules and quirks allowing small engines and big guns (And thus preserving a consistent design. As a side note I do not think anyone here can make assertions as to what camp has the most members

It is possible they can try and make the design still be old school but with enough new design elements to fit in with their current line up of mechs and is probably something they should strive for. However where that middle point is is quite literally different for each person. If they do make changes to make the urbie design more old school people should recognize they they are indeed trying to cater for them while understanding that they have certain design philosophies they need to follow for consistency.

That said I think they'll score extra points (and collectors orders) if the unique geo is a lot more trashcan design

[Metafox]

A few days ago I started a poll for the Urbanmech's design in an attempt to get some more quantitative data on this. If you think that it could be useful, please consider sharing it with Russ:

http://mwomercs.com/...ics-and-design/

[LT. HARDCASE]

PGI's art looks to have amazing hitboxes, though. I really like their take.

[Ballimbo]

The original PGI-Sketch has 3 "issues", for it not "feeling" right for the Urbie - for me:

1. Cone shaped Torso (rather than a cylinder)
2. The waist, separating the Torso too much from the legs
3. Legs too long and slim

So I tried something myself. Meanwhile this thread saw many more Ideas, to which mine now has similarities. So nothing really "new" in design ideas coming from me. But I'll post it anyways

To overcome number 1, I did not alter the scale of the Torso - I more or less cut some parts away (actually placing the weapons nearer "in", the "belt" higher up etc.). Because scaling would retain that cone shape, which I wanted to get rid of.
For number 2 I simply cut the waist away.
Then to remedy number 3, there I scaled the legs down some (did it on "eyesight", no exact numbers here, just what felt right).
In the end I scaled the weapons a bit, too, for a "rounder feeling".

Disclaimer:
I did not consider any ingame mechanics (like hitboxes, size in general, or animations etc.). This is just what feels better for me, solely on a visual side. I do not claim, in anyways, that this would work ingame without any issues.

So here it is:



Hrm, I didn't look at the antennas.... maybe they are a bit out of whack now. Or it just gives it a "special" touch, no?

And here a comparison with the original PGI sketch:


It ended up being smaller, from the cut-aways, and the scaling of the legs (incl. pelvis). Maybe too small? And it IS narrower, not that much, but still.

P.S. I do apologize for my english, as it is not my native tongue.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

I am all for squished mechs that are more small because: hit boxes are op. As long as they don't squash it into a mini Awesome barn I approve especially considering max engine rating.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

JJs is where the height can come from and flammable coolant (mech pee) would be collectors pack quirk:

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=jGFK2KLrfb0

[Jonny Slam]

The Urbanmech needs to be move barrel shaped, shorter, with stouter legs and a much less prominent mount for the AC10.

Although the pictures are this thread are interesting they are not what a urbanmech looks like, or depict the role and mechanics of the Battletech Urbie.

In all honesty this whole urbie push is a exercise in nostalgia (which I'm on-board with) so it is foolish, or even ludicrous to attempt to change the look or functions of the mech so significantly.

The Urbanmech could only run a standard 60 engine originally (stratlix? or starlight, whatever) and mounted a massive amount of armor. The top speed was less then 40kms and the jumpjets were limited.

What is the point of PGI issuing the Urbie if they are going to make it into a version that is A) not what the mech is, or betray the love and nostalgia that prompts players to want it, gimpy though it may be?

[ForceUser]

What would be the point of the mech if it was not at least able to be modified to work within the framework that is MWO? Mechlab candy alone? A tool Trolls use to, shrugging their shoulders and saying they can't help the mech is so slow, blame PGI, etc.?

I would be all in favor of having the collectors Urby be a more nostalgic design with the standard models fitting in more with how MWO has redesigned all the other mechs as well. That would imho be the best of both worlds. Yes I understand a lot of people will see this as PGI extorting people's nostalgia, but I think it is fair having people pay a premium for a mech that is out of the ordinary looks wise. This is normal capitalism at work.

[Matthew Ace]

Rasc4l, on 24 January 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

... (especially since the engine ratings remain unknown and I already got the resistance pack), the picture just looked wrong.

Russ said something along between 180 to 215 or something like that. So that makes minimum 180?

[Jonny Slam]

Matthew Ace, on 24 January 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Russ said something along between 180 to 215 or something like that. So that makes minimum 180?

Much bigger than what a Urbanmech runs, thing was crazy slow because it was for city combat, 180-215? might as well just make a brand new mech, what is the point of saying it is a Urbanmech if it isnt?

Kind of seems pointless to make a mech that is only called a Urbanmech, but does't have any of the actual play characteristics. And without the actual nostalgia and play character of a urbie what would be the point? afterall do we really need another bland useless light mech? I thought that was what the panther was going to be for!

Edited by Jonny Slam, 24 January 2015 - 09:59 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Jonny Slam, on 24 January 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

Much bigger than what a Urbanmech runs, thing was crazy slow because it was for city combat, 180-215? might as well just make a brand new mech, what is the point of saying it is a Urbanmech if it isnt?

Because you can still run the STD 60 in it.

I don't get what the problem is with giving it a high cap? Those that want a slow urbie can run a slow urbie, and those that don't, can do that also. Pleases everyone.

[FupDup]

Jonny Slam, on 24 January 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

Much bigger than what a Urbanmech runs, thing was crazy slow because it was for city combat, 180-215? might as well just make a brand new mech, what is the point of saying it is a Urbanmech if it isnt?

Afterall do we really need another bland useless light mech? I thought that was what the panther was for!

A 180 engine puts it at 106.9 kph after speed tweak. Remember that this is a 30 ton mech we're talking about, with 30 tonner armor and 30 tonner firepower, and a somewhat average array of just 6 hardpoints. Compare this to 35 ton Firestarters going 150 kph with 8 hardpoints (most of them) and 35 ton Jenners also going 150 (with half of them having 6 hardpoints). And then compare it to the 55 ton Stormcrow that also goes 106.9 kph, with triple the firepower and armor.

Doesn't seem so fast when it's put into perspective...

Edited by FupDup, 24 January 2015 - 10:12 PM.

[Aerik Lornes]

IraqiWalker, on 24 January 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

I don't get what the problem is with giving it a high cap? Those that want a slow urbie can run a slow urbie, and those that don't, can do that also. Pleases everyone.

Because some people think that when you call a shape a "triangle" it should still have three sides and angles that add up to 180, NOT give it a fourth side so it can have more volume and then still call it a "triangle." This isn't quite that extreme, and the lines are certainly fuzzier, but at some point it really does become NOT an Urbanmech anymore. I want to see Urbanmechs in the game, not fast trashcans, no matter who pilots them, because it's another step towards "robots that stole names from Battletech" as opposed to "playing real-time, first person* Battletech."


*Does anyone really argue that a LOT (perhaps most) of the hate towards 3PV was because it changed the feel of the game?

Edited by Aerik Lornes, 24 January 2015 - 10:23 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Aerik Lornes, on 24 January 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

*Does anyone really argue that a LOT (perhaps most) of the hate towards 3PV was because it changed the feel of the game?

A big part of the hate on 3PV is that it can be an abuse.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 24 January 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I don't want the urbie to be half the size of a spider, once you get under the 8m mark it because very difficult to explain how a full sized adult fits in the head of the mech.

Well, since some of the novels and some of the old original TRO artwork actually had the driver of certain Mech's standing up with their legs/lower body in the torso or the cockpit being partially/totally inside the torso(Marauder, Cataphract)...what's the problem? It's not like the heads on Mechs swivel or move after all, and quite a few don't actually HAVE a head, it's just a naming convention for the cockpit area in quite a few cases.

The Atlas was the tallest Mech in BTech at 15m at one time, back when FASA still existed and before the Jihad/Dark Ages. The rebranding as CBT has seen a total rework of sizes. The size chart posted in this thread is composed from the original 3050 TRO specs/images and as you can see, not a single Clan Mech on that chart hits 15m to equal or exceed the height of the Atlas. According to CBT however, the Atlas is only 13m tall now and is not close to being the tallest Mech on the field anymore, even being topped by IS Mechs that were originally shorter than the Atlas, such as the Victor(14m according to CBT). CBT also lists the Spider as being 11m tall, the same as a Catapult, Summoner, and Kit Fox. Pretty sure my Spider in MWO isn't anywhere near as tall as the Catapult and Summoner and I know my Kit Fox isn't that tall either.

Weight of the Mech and actual size of the Mech have NEVER been even remotely realistic or even fitting to the rest of the BTech universe's plethora of vehicles and machines of war. 100 ton tanks don't take up anywhere near the volume of a 100 ton Mech, despite being composed of the exact same materials, hells they don't even take up the volume as a 20 ton Mech. Welcome to BTech, reality is left at the door so that the game is fun despite the entire premise of bipedal walking giant tanks is incredibly stupid from a purely military standpoint

Personally, I like the redesign by Bishop, but I must say I think #4 on the original 4 selection option is my favorite, it looks more like the original Urbie to me, short and squat and not exactly something that inspires fear and trepidation but rather something you look at, giggle, and stomp on it's foot to see if the top pops up.