125 replies to this topic

[Eider]

+ 200% speed.. cause lets be honest it will just get ***** as is.

[Triskelion]

I'd actually like slightly more ammo per ton (even though it makes no sense).

As it is right now, you're not going to get many shots no matter how you build it.

[Utilyan]

Theres a slight push I'd like to see from everyone....... Remember the Atlas eyes used to glow?

Please stick it to the tryhards.......let urbie's eyes/cockpit glow. Maybe differ color based on variant. Blue, Yellow, Red "Come at me bro"

[Triskelion]

Utilyan, on 24 January 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Theres a slight push I'd like to see from everyone....... Remember the Atlas eyes used to glow?

Please stick it to the tryhards.......let urbie's eyes/cockpit glow. Maybe differ color based on variant. Blue, Yellow, Red "Come at me bro"

I still want glowing eyes on a lot of things.


... but yes.

[Aerik Lornes]

Brody319, on 24 January 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

I was just bringing up that some people want the urbanmech to have a low engine cap, but want it to be buffed in speed.
instead of just giving it a higher engine cap and not bother giving it a "25% speed increase" quirk.

I still want low engine cap and no speed buff. But I'm fine with an acceleration/deceleration buff and, unrelated to speed, anything that keeps the PPC/Large Laser as the first thing people swap in as they swap out the ballistics.

[L3mming2]

Koniving, on 24 January 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

I'm well aware. But if you spent the time to read what I had stated in other posts, I'm absolutely against the quirk system to begin with; it's a bandaid on a bandaid on a bandaid.

I also stated if we pre-quirk the living **** out of the Urbanmech and every other mech we go to bring forth we'll have a Power Creep issue.

if u look at the vid at 6:00 thats in my opinion the way power creep is adresed in MWO (with the quirks to rebalance)

and even with masive quirks the UM wont add to power creep as it wont be a tier 1 mech... i just hope they will buff it so it will be T3 ore maby 2..

[Brody319]

Utilyan, on 24 January 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Theres a slight push I'd like to see from everyone....... Remember the Atlas eyes used to glow?

Please stick it to the tryhards.......let urbie's eyes/cockpit glow. Maybe differ color based on variant. Blue, Yellow, Red "Come at me bro"

Triskelion, on 24 January 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

I still want glowing eyes on a lot of things.


... but yes.

It should have One big Glowing Red eye where the pilot is looking. So If I hold ctrl then look around have the eye follow it.

like this



I made my own version

Edited by Brody319, 24 January 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[wanderer]

I don't want speed quirks. I don't want big engine sizes.

Treat it as a Tier 5 (or even 6, considering how slow lights are looked at with horror in MWO) and quirk appropriately.

You're talking Dragon-1N-like buffs for it's AC and milder versions for it's small laser/small pulse. Improved structure, too.

But no ground speed. Let it be a "speed demon" at max 125 or less engine rating, because this is the "light" that moves like an assault.

[Lucian Nostra]

it should have the quirk 100% more screen shake from incoming hits.. Urbie is the REAL earthquake simulator (to it's own pilot..)

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 24 January 2015 - 03:20 PM.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

I hate to do this when you were doing so well, BUT

I have to correct you on one thing (I dunno what they were thinking with the IIC) but the Urbanmech had the same rotation rules as any other mech

Highlighted in red, is the rotation ring on the original art. The chest bumpers would indeed limit how far in that direction it could spin though.

It followed all normal torso twist rules (only quads do not get torso twist) and like the rifleman and any mech lacking lower arm actuators, could flip it's weapons into the rear arc.

Otherwise, well done, nice job, carry on!

I'll give you my counter arguments here.

Take note of where the arm is mounted. Unless somehow that mech's arm is literally mounted on the rotation ring, preventing the rotation ring from moving, the arm is actually depicted as mounted beneath that ring -- repeatedly -- on all official art. Whether the arm uses the below-cannon box as it does there, or the joint mounted directly into the cannon as it does in later art, the arm mounts are always depicted as beneath that ring.

Between this and the original miniatures, it seems a lot like the cannon is mounted on a frame that suspends (holds) the cannon up. That this frame, rather than the cannon, is mounted on the 'pipe' or shaft that the arm rotates on.
Later miniatures give this depiction.

Which is more in favor of the cannon being the mount and completely removes the 'below cannon' excess. These redesigns however tend to remove torso twist or put it as an "entirely separate from the arms" setup so that only the cockpit mount would be able to spin.

In the 3050 art, that 'excess' is still there and very clearly part of the arm. Though here it is hard to tell which part of the arm the shaft connects to.

I'm referring to the AC arm mount akin to this model.

Where it is below the rim on directly on the "ring"

Here it appears the shaft would connect between the cannon and the excess (which makes some sense, what gun has a rotating piece connected directly to the barrel but in front of the firing mechanism?)

To note: All mechs by default have the same basic rotation rules unless you apply Design Quirks for the Design Quirk No Torso Twist.

In this depiction, the small laser could twist if indeed it could twist. Very similar to the Ostol in the 3025 art (weapons below waistline) versus Ostol in the 3050 (weapons above waistline).

If, given the angle, you work with the assumption that the arm is mounted through the rotation ring as you put it, which highly contrasts against all sequential artwork (you don't just remove something like torso twist from 'later' versions of a design), you then have another issue. The mechanics; the size of the Urbanmech, the fact that the engine is directly below the cockpit, the various other aspects, all of them tie to a very simple fact... there simply isn't enough room. This is why the PGI art put so much extra space between the pelvis and the hips, to insert that room. Not even looking at the internals, take the externals. That thigh will clip with the right arm if the mech ever twisted even 15 degrees to the right. And should it twist to the left, it cannot walk anymore.

No matter how you look at it, twisting in the 3025 design is incredibly impractical.
With redesigns? Sure.
But not so long as it has that shape, it shouldn't even be feasible.
Given the various official TRO arts, however, torso twist is something that clearly isn't on the menu, regardless of whether or not the 3025 art is an exception. There'd be no need for so many viewports (which in many of the depictions go a full 360 around the mech) if the mech could twist.

Though I confess if it can in Battletech, that thing would be overpowered in a cross section given the more fluff-styled autocannons as opposed to MWO style autocannons.

(On a side note: Megamek seems to agree with you the Urbanmech has Narrow/Small profile, but doesn't have No Torso Twist listed. The clan version has no quirks what-so-ever).

I'm saddened StratOps doesn't contain a comprehensive list of twist capable mechs.

I picture it twisting more like this, if at all.

Though I'm aware that is the IIC.

It's simply a single step and a rotation on the legs, covering all your twisting needs without an actual twist on the mech itself. Much akin to the Nova, Bushwhacker, Adder, Kitfox, Jenner, Catapult, and the incredibly long list of additional mechs with such a trait.

At best I'll leave it as debatable. But in my opinion that engine is struggling to do far too much as it is, so expecting it to do a torso twist is in itself...rather nuts.

But that's BT, and this is MWO.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 24 January 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'll give you my counter arguments here.

Take note of where the arm is mounted. Unless somehow that mech's arm is literally mounted on the rotation ring, preventing the rotation ring from moving, the arm is actually depicted as mounted beneath that ring -- repeatedly -- on all official art. Whether the arm uses the below-cannon box as it does there, or the joint mounted directly into the cannon as it does in later art, the arm mounts are always depicted as beneath that ring.

Between this and the original miniatures, it seems a lot like the cannon is mounted on a frame that suspends (holds) the cannon up. That this frame, rather than the cannon, is mounted on the 'pipe' or shaft that the arm rotates on.
Later miniatures give this depiction.

Which is more in favor of the cannon being the mount and completely removes the 'below cannon' excess. These redesigns however tend to remove torso twist or put it as an "entirely separate from the arms" setup so that only the cockpit mount would be able to spin.

In the 3050 art, that 'excess' is still there and very clearly part of the arm. Though here it is hard to tell which part of the arm the shaft connects to.

I'm referring to the AC arm mount akin to this model.

Where it is below the rim on directly on the "ring"

Here it appears the shaft would connect between the cannon and the excess (which makes some sense, what gun has a rotating piece connected directly to the barrel but in front of the firing mechanism?)

To note: All mechs by default have the same basic rotation rules unless you apply Design Quirks for the Design Quirk No Torso Twist.

In this depiction, the small laser could twist if indeed it could twist. Very similar to the Ostol in the 3025 art (weapons below waistline) versus Ostol in the 3050 (weapons above waistline).

If, given the angle, you work with the assumption that the arm is mounted through the rotation ring as you put it, which highly contrasts against all sequential artwork (you don't just remove something like torso twist from 'later' versions of a design), you then have another issue. The mechanics; the size of the Urbanmech, the fact that the engine is directly below the cockpit, the various other aspects, all of them tie to a very simple fact... there simply isn't enough room. This is why the PGI art put so much extra space between the pelvis and the hips, to insert that room. Not even looking at the internals, take the externals. That thigh will clip with the right arm if the mech ever twisted even 15 degrees to the right. And should it twist to the left, it cannot walk anymore.

No matter how you look at it, twisting in the 3025 design is incredibly impractical.
With redesigns? Sure.
But not so long as it has that shape, it shouldn't even be feasible.
Given the various official TRO arts, however, torso twist is something that clearly isn't on the menu, regardless of whether or not the 3025 art is an exception. There'd be no need for so many viewports (which in many of the depictions go a full 360 around the mech) if the mech could twist.

Though I confess if it can in Battletech, that thing would be overpowered in a cross section given the more fluff-styled autocannons as opposed to MWO style autocannons.

(On a side note: Megamek seems to agree with you the Urbanmech has Narrow/Small profile, but doesn't have No Torso Twist listed. The clan version has no quirks what-so-ever).

I'm saddened StratOps doesn't contain a comprehensive list of twist capable mechs.

I picture it twisting more like this, if at all.

Though I'm aware that is the IIC.

It's simply a single step and a rotation on the legs, covering all your twisting needs without an actual twist on the mech itself. Much akin to the Nova, Bushwhacker, Adder, Kitfox, Jenner, Catapult, and the incredibly long list of additional mechs with such a trait.

At best I'll leave it as debatable. But in my opinion that engine is struggling to do far too much as it is, so expecting it to do a torso twist is in itself...rather nuts.

But that's BT, and this is MWO.

1) "Later" Depcition is an URbanmech IIC.

As noted before, I can't answer for that.

2) the autocannon and laser are supposed to be mounted on the ring. The ring rotated the torso, with the cannon/laser. With 360 viewports is little reason for the upper body to rotate. That "excess" is the ammo hopper.

The original 3025 art is always the "correct" art to start evaluation son, even if later artists sometimes had trouble translating it.

3) And most importantly, again, there is nothing in text, rule or otherwise that says the urbie has no torso rotation. The art, in the end is meaningless. Most mechs in the 3055 tro had no actual hips or knees



does that mean they couldn't walk?

(Well, if we go by the art, then yes, just like the original 3025 Marauder would simply fall over, and dear god the King Crab is in trouble))


Mechs like the locust and Jenner literally had no waste. Still got normal torso motion in TT. Also turrets style twist is just electric motors, like on a tank. They don't actually require that much power. And since it doesn't mount a heavy energy payload, the reactor isn't pushing joules out for much else.

(Always did wish that engine rating transferred to how much "power" you could generate for firing and recharging weapons. Would make non gauss ballistics even more "lore logical" as well as missiles. Lasers and PPCs would recharge faster based on engine size and activity though (aka an immobile mech with a pPC would recharge the capacitors banks faster than a walking run and a walking one faster than a running one, ...not sure how jumping would fit in though, tbh)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 January 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Triskelion]

Might also need some twist speed bonuses.

The thing's going to have tiny engines, it might turn out to be a serious problem.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lucian Nostra, on 24 January 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

it should have the quirk 100% more screen shake from incoming hits.. Urbie is the REAL earthquake simulator (to it's own pilot..)

No, that is the Scorpion.

Sheesh man, get your lore right.

[Brody319]

Triskelion, on 24 January 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Might also need some twist speed bonuses.

The thing's going to have tiny engines, it might turn out to be a serious problem.

with a 180 in it, it could turn as fast as the Kit Fox. I think the hardest part of the urbie will be control.

with other mechs you have a stopping reference point with the twist, not so with the urbie. you throw your mouse to the side to turn quickly, and it may turn all the way around.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 24 January 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

with a 180 in it, it could turn as fast as the Kit Fox. I think the hardest part of the urbie will be control.

with other mechs you have a stopping reference point with the twist, not so with the urbie. you throw your mouse to the side to turn quickly, and it may turn all the way around.

That's why I wish the weapons ring would rotate instead of the whole torso.... but sadly, that would be way to difficult, or even impossible, to simulate.

I remember I had to "return to center" a LOT with Ravens in MW4. A WHOLE lot.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Nightshade24]

I think maybe a slight ammo quirk would be nice?... because ya know... 50% fire rate with 1-4 tons of ammo will go fast... very fast... also 50% cooldown will make AC 2's ghost heat itself

[Bishop Steiner]

Nightshade24, on 24 January 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

I think maybe a slight ammo quirk would be nice?... because ya know... 50% fire rate with 1-4 tons of ammo will go fast... very fast... also 50% cooldown will make AC 2's ghost heat itself

that's why you have ballistics quirks and autocannon specific quirks.

There is no model of Urbanmech that should have ac2 specific quirks, so there should be no issue there.

[HammerMaster]

2) 20% more waddle.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd favor, starting with five quirks with its 4 JJ max:

• 40% Ballistic Velocity Increase (Can be split according to stock Weapon)
  
• 20% Ballistic Range Increase (Can be split according to stock Weapon)
  
• 40% Energy Range Increase (Can be split according to stock Weapon)
  
• 20% Energy Beam Reduction (Can be split according to stock Weapon)
  
• 1.5x to 2x Jump Jet Velocity.

Then like other lights also provide:

• 50% Armor to Arms
  
• +12 Additional Leg Structure
  
• 25% Acceleration
  
• 50% Deceleration

[L3mming2]

found the quirk we need
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ad0691a756ef67e
and now AC5 damage 200%