125 replies to this topic

[Fleeb the Mad]

Personally, what my heart desires is an Ambush Mech.

I think it's wasted arguing for engine cap and attempting to make it substantially faster. Any other light does the go fast bit better with hardpoints more suited to be a run and gun or harasser type. A 'fast' urbie without a big gun is also one without a soul.

At its core an Urbanmech is a tiny chassis that can punch well above its weight. But going toe-to-toe against most mechs in a protracted fight would be suicide. It should, at least in my opinion, be able to offer some sort of front-loaded damage that plays into a role as a close-quarters and ambush mech.

I would quirk it to have a 40 or 50% rate of fire increase for its autocannons, but not a heat reduction. Boom boom boom, duck behind something. I would also think it deserves some kind of additional armour quirk to make up for the fact that it can't escape from heavier mechs like other lights can. Let it be a little honey badger in its natural environment.

[Matthew Ace]

All variants of the Urbanmech needs autoshotty ROF for large autocannons, and cooler running ballistics to go with that. It shouldn't need DHS if you intend to keep it reminiscent of its existing loadout.

Weapon Quirks
+30% Ballistic Cooldown
-25% Ballistic Heat Generation
-25% Energy Heat Generation
-50% Laser Duration
OPTIONAL: +50% Ballistic Range (Questionable, but serves to make it a little more usable)
+50% Ballistic Velocity

R60: Additional +20% Ballistic Cooldown (It carries the least energy hardpoints)
R63: +10% LBX10 Cooldown
R60L: +10% AC20 Cooldown

Durability Quirks
+50% Internals everywhere except head
-25% Damage taken OR +35% Armor (except head, in both cases)

Movement Quirks
+100% Accel/Decel
+100% Turn rate
+100% Torso twist rate
Same backwards movement speed as forward movement speed
Jump Jet distance +100%

Edited by Matthew Ace, 24 January 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[Ace Selin]

25% AC10 cool down with 50% AC10 increased damage modifier

[MechPorn]

How about a 15% boost to the torso twist rate?

[Utilyan]

I got mixed feelings and reluctant to support any weapon quirk that isn't direct damage or ammo efficiency. Cause first thing once you picked up some survivability on this thing is your ammo is GONE.

So if you HAVE TO do weapon quirks I suggest this order general energy>general ballistic>specific energy>specific ballistic.

Other side of the coin is good ballistic and ballistic specific will let you drop that payload soon as possible. So assuming you got 37 shots of ac/10 (2 1/2 tons of ammo) that's 370 damage if they all land. Some might say well a urbie that has dumped alL his ammo has "done his job". a ballistic cool that stacks with a ac/10 cool might guarantee you a kill least.


Quirks better off going to matching reverse speed, high accelerations(not top speed), jump jet power(whatever gives you the height to even get on buildings) To give folks an idea of situation, Take a spider for a spin with one jump jet(you need the ammo that's why you don't have 2 jets) Since the jumpjet nerfs aimed at poptarts its been crap. It was to target highlanders and cataphract 3ds poptarting. Get ready for that letdown when you can't even get on a tiny building, we need jumpjet quirks.

[SaltBeef]

The Urbie should come with a toilet paper dispenser small laser arm, a back rest so the Atlas can take a stronger stance when off-loading the deuce ....Oh and a Mahogany toilet flip lid.

[Alek Ituin]

MilesTeg1982, on 24 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

hmm ... what I really don't understand is - why should a mech which was poorly designed in the first place and is not meant to be competive to any other mech be given additional quirks? espeacially such extreme ones?

Grognard spotted.

[STEF_]

Since the Urbie only hope (at least imo) is to run an ac20 (much better than a ac10), staying close with heavies/assault
R60L:
----> 20% cooldown/velocity generic ballistic + 20 cooldown/velocity ac20 + 30%moar armor/innards the arm loading it + 50% ac20 durability

edit: the same with ac10 for the other urbies.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 25 January 2015 - 01:06 AM.

[The Wakelord]

One thing for me that makes a huge difference when a mech has these:

• +20% acceleration rate
  
• +20% torso twist speed

The acceleration rate will help keep the urbie slow (which people might want) - while also buffing a fast urbie version. It allows getting into cover and popping out.

Similarly, the torso twist speed will be a soft bonus that allows better defence and better attacks without just a plain +velocity or +damage.

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

Based on playing my Urbanspider (Spider-5K with AC10, small laser, you know the drill), I think there are certain things that could be added to make the Urbanmech more viable, while still retaining the original nature of the Urbanmech.

In approximate order of importance:

AC10 Velocity increase, preferably something like 50%, but at least 25%. The AC10 is a slow round. Slow enough that I often find myself using it at maybe just over half of it's Long Range in game (also why I think AC10 range quirks are overall pretty much useless). Improving the speed of the round would make it more useful out to ranges that would allow the Urbie a little more safety margin, and at the same time make it a bit easier to hit enemy lights, which is one thing the Urbanmech was noted for in tabletop.

Structure increase to right torso and right arm. I'm not certain of the amount of increase needed, but I've noticed that once players realize I have an AC10 in my right arm and only a small laser as backup, they often direct their damage to the right torso/arm. Think of the Urbie as a mini-Hunchback in this respect. The structure increase may not need to be as much, but at least 10 extra structure/armor on the RT and 5 extra structure/armor on the RA would go a long way towards letting you keep your main weapon in action. The usual other structure increases that all lights get would also be good(+5 to legs, etc).

Ballistic cooldown: Not a whole lot needed, as you can only carry so much ammo anyway, but a 10%-25% increase would probably do it, at least with an AC10 cooldown module added. Being able to get more shots off would make it easier to deal with a light that has run close to you. They do that a lot when they realize what you are because, let's face it, an AC10 does as much damage as only 2 medium lasers put together, and many lights will run six of them.

Acceleration/Deceleration: Not sure about the percentage on this one, but with a slow light, especially one designed to fight in tight quarters, the ability to reverse direction suddenly is very important. I remember duking it out with a Battlemaster under the dock in Crimson Strait by keeping one of the pillars between the two of us. I only had my small laser left, but he had difficulty bringing his weapons to bear on the due to most of them being in his torso. If I'd had just a bit more accel/decel, I might have been able to finish him off before his teammates could rescue him.

Small laser range increase: The worst problem with a combo of slow speed/short range is simply being able to get in range to pull off even a max shot. They've buffed the small laser range by something like 50% since I started using my Urbanspider, and I've also put down 3mil for a small laser range module, so this is less of an issue than it used to be. Still, I'd like to see at least a 10% range boost for this.

Edit: Clarified a couple of points due to confusing wording.

Edited by YaKillinMeSmalls, 25 January 2015 - 01:39 AM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Cooldown bonuses are too reliant on ammo.

Range bonuses are contrary to the accepted primary role of the Urbie

What the Urbie needs is the Crit bonus of a machine gun applied to it's AC/10. To spontaneously execute any mech that has been cored making it an ideal late game ambusher. The last man Atlas trick made manifest.

[Johnny Reb]

I would like the "quirk" that all heatsinks count as double with a one slot space.

[Parmeggido]

100% chance to 3x crit with small lasers.

[Alek Ituin]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 January 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

Since the Urbie only hope (at least imo) is to run an ac20 (much better than a ac10), staying close with heavies/assault
R60L:
----> 20% cooldown/velocity generic ballistic + 20 cooldown/velocity ac20 + 30%moar armor/innards the arm loading it + 50% ac20 durability

edit: the same with ac10 for the other urbies.

Alright, let me stop you there. I've said this before and I'll say it again: The AC/10 is actually superior to the AC/20 in many ways, it's not a trash weapon by any means (it could use a LOT less tonnage though, same with the AC/2 and AC/5).

Lets break it down:

Range: AC/10 - 450m Opt., AC/20 - 270m Opt.
Winner: AC/10

Damage: Obvious. AC/10 does 10 DAM, AC/20 does 20 DAM.
Winner: AC/20

Velocity: AC/10 - 950m/s, AC/20 - 650m/s
Winner: AC/10

Ammo/ton: AC/10 - 15/ton (150 DAM/ton), AC/20 - 7/t (140 DAM/ton)
Winner: AC/10

RoF: AC/10 - 2.5s, AC/20 - 4s, 20% RoF quirk AC/20 - 3.2s, 40% RoF quirk AC/20 - 2.4s
Winner: AC/10 (by a clear margin)

DPS: AC/10 - 4 DPS, AC/20 - 5 DPS
Winner: AC/20

Crit Slots: AC/10 - 7, AC/20 - 10
Winner: AC/10

DAM/CS: AC/10 - 1.4 DAM/CS, AC/20 - 2 DAM/CS
Winner AC/20

Tonnage: AC/10 - 12t, AC/20 - 14t.
Winner: AC/10

DAM/ton: AC/10 - 0.8333 DAM/ton, AC/20 - 1.42 DAM/ton
Winner: AC/20

If you just tally it up, the AC/10 comes out with 6 wins, the AC/20 with 4. If you actually look at what the AC/10 wins in specifically, you'll see why it's actually a good weapon. 300m/s higher velocity, higher ammo/ton, higher DAM per ton of ammo, lower fitting requirements, and a higher RoF than an AC/20 by a large margin. So to sum it up easily:

AC/10 advantages: Velocity, Ammo/ton, DAM per ton of ammo, Crit Slots, Tonnage, RoF

AC/20 advantages: DAM, DPS, DAM/ton, DAM/CS

Reducing the AC/10 to 10 tons and 6 CS (down from 12 and 7, so -2 tons and -1 CS) would make it a VERY good choice for a lighter Ballistic. Same goes for the AC/2 and AC/5, except just a -2 ton buff (so 4 and 6 tons respectively), making them a more useful choice for lighter Mechs. It would change the DAM/ton and DAM/CS comparisons to look like this:

AC/10: DAM/ton - 1, DAM/CS - 1.6

AC/20: DAM/ton - 1.42, DAM/CS - 2

Much closer, with the AC/20 still winning in pure damage, but the AC/10 not hopelessly far behind it.

[STEF_]

Alek Ituin, on 25 January 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

Alright, let me stop you there. I've said this before and I'll say it again: The AC/10 is actually superior to the AC/20 in many ways, it's not a trash weapon by any means (it could use a LOT less tonnage though, same with the AC/2 and AC/5).

Never said it's a trash weapon.
But in my Urbie I would prefer an ac20 with very good quirks, of course.
Such as having an ac20 with cooldown, velocity and (why not) range of an ac10.

Imo, it's the only way to make the urbie good enough to be a tier 5, instead of a tier 6.

And, please, 100% quirks to acc. decel.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 25 January 2015 - 03:23 AM.

[Alek Ituin]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 January 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

Never said it's a trash weapon.
But in my Urbie I would prefer an ac20 with very good quirks, of course.
Such as having an ac20 with cooldown, velocity and (why not) range of an ac10.

Imo, it's the only way to make the urbie good enough to be a tier 5, instead of a tier 6.

And, please, 100% quirks to acc. decel.

Except an AC/10 would benefit more from those quirks due to the role the Urbie fills. Urbies are supposed to ambush and lightly skirmish with enemies, performing "fast" hit n' run attacks by utilizing the cityscape to their advantage. An AC/20 is not conducive to that simply because it doesn't fire fast enough, nor have the velocity to impact the target quickly, even with quirks it's still inferior to the AC/10 as a skirmishing weapon. It's all about getting shots off quickly and melting back in to the city, damage output is secondary in these scenarios.

Sorry if I sound like some AC/10 fanboy, but they get a lot of undue hate from players who barely use them. I friggin LOVE AC/10's every time I use them. Beyond sheer damage output, the AC/20 is flat out inferior to the AC/10 even with quirks.

I agree on the accel/deccel quirks though. Urbie should be able to maneuver quickly, but not go fast, agility over speed and all that jazz.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 25 January 2015 - 03:33 AM.

[STEF_]

Alek Ituin, on 25 January 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Except an AC/10 would benefit more from those quirks due to the role the Urbie fills. Urbies are supposed to ambush and lightly skirmish with enemies, performing "fast" hit n' run attacks by utilizing the cityscape to their advantage. An AC/20 is not conducive to that simply because it doesn't fire fast enough, nor have the velocity to impact the target quickly, even with quirks it's still inferior to the AC/10 as a skirmishing weapon. It's all about getting shots off quickly and melting back in to the city, damage output is secondary in these scenarios.

Sorry if I sound like some AC/10 fanboy, but they get a lot of undue hate from players who barely use them. I friggin LOVE AC/10's every time I use them. Beyond sheer damage output, the AC/20 is flat out inferior to the AC/10 even with quirks.

I agree on the accel/deccel quirks though. Urbie should be able to maneuver quickly, but not go fast, agility over speed and all that jazz.

Esactly! I want to feel it like an Urbie.
Sadly MWO maps aren't "urbie-friendly" at all (I already can imagine me piloting my urbie in alpine ), and maps are casual too. Not to mention the hover-jets...instead of having stander JJ.
So, I think that, being slow, at least it could be dangerous to be approached.
Higher fire rate makes you expose, and I feel that, here in mwo, the Urbie will be an easy target (for its shape) that's why I'd prefer playing peek a boo with a Ac20, but this would need damn good acc/decel quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 25 January 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

Never said it's a trash weapon.
But in my Urbie I would prefer an ac20 with very good quirks, of course.
Such as having an ac20 with cooldown, velocity and (why not) range of an ac10.

Imo, it's the only way to make the urbie good enough to be a tier 5, instead of a tier 6.

And, please, 100% quirks to acc. decel.

And the R60-L probably will get ac20 works. And the R63, lb10-x. And the R60, ac10. Because that's what each one comes with.

[Nightshade24]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

that's why you have ballistics quirks and autocannon specific quirks.

There is no model of Urbanmech that should have ac2 specific quirks, so there should be no issue there.

Yea, like the same way the thunderbolt 9S shouldn't have ER PPC quirks.... oh wait.
(I do not have that much faith for PGI to give the respective quirks to ALL urbies... I can sense one will have something liek a ppc or large pulse laser quirk)

[Bishop Steiner]

Nightshade24, on 25 January 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Yea, like the same way the thunderbolt 9S shouldn't have ER PPC quirks.... oh wait.
(I do not have that much faith for PGI to give the respective quirks to ALL urbies... I can sense one will have something liek a ppc or large pulse laser quirk)

Yeah. That would totally only make sense if the 9S at least actually HAD an ER PPC stock..... oh wait.



(Mind you, the degree they have is jus tplain stupid....)