375 replies to this topic

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

See they don't want to just fight falcon. They want to be able to fight anyone at any time.

They have a problem that is pretty universal to everyone right now. Not enough opponents to fight at any given time.

I'm not saying I agree with a lane but I do see their logic if you really just wanted to farm for money in CW, which is very profitable.

Edited by Blueduck, 26 January 2015 - 07:34 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

No one is asking you to loose territory...we were attacking and asked if we could come to an agreement...big difference.

[CutterWolf]

Aresye, on 26 January 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

Uh...where? The planet's histories don't lie m8. Each player that fights for a planet gets a single tag towards their unit's name (12man = 12 tags), and at the end of the cycle, the unit with the most tags accumulated get their name on the planet. CWI currently has more owned planets than all of CWDG's prior tag histories combined.

Or if you want to get specific:
CWI = 51 Planet Entries, 13 Planets Owned
GK = 11 Planet Entries, 1 Planet Owned (And they were with Kurita for like 2 weeks)
CWDG = 7 Planet Entries, 1 Planet Owned

If you were truly taking the brunt of the overall work, you should technically be acquiring more tags than other units on that planet, and have your name listed in the historical ownerships.

And in case you think I'm just BS-ing the way planet ownership works, here it is, straight from the developer's mouths themselves:

Oh really? I have to call BS on that. The very first day of CW we dropped on 1 planet for almost 8 hours state with out a single lost that would cover your 13 entrys in one day. Also, how many 12 mans to you drop at the same time and how long do you drop?? Now compare that to our "single" 12 man and tell me whos working here?

[Vxheous]

CutterWolf, on 26 January 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

Oh really? I have to call BS on that. The very first day of CW we dropped on 1 planet for almost 8 hours state with out a single lost that would cover your 13 entrys in one day. Also, how many 12 mans to you drop at the same time and how long do you drop?? Now compare that to our "single" 12 man and tell me whos working here?

The numbers there do not lie, the game determines the tag for the planet based on the amount of people from a unit that drops, and if the bulk of the planets carry CWI tags, then CWI players have dropped the most.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 26 January 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

The numbers there do not lie, the game determines the tag for the planet based on the amount of people from a unit that drops, and if the bulk of the planets carry CWI tags, then CWI players have dropped the most.

I agree, this is no slight against delta that probably has one of the hardest working 12 mans in CW.

That said CWI has committed the most players and therefore the most hours.

This really isn't helping anyone though in terms of the squabbling.

Lets see if we can get some ideas that the devs could implement that would actually fix these issues we've been talking about.

I'm really convinced there is no bad guy here.

We just need to get a list of issues we can bring to the devs with maybe some ideas on how to solve them.

Does anyone have any idea how we might help the mercs out so they can actually do what mercs should do which is make c-bills. The problem is right now they are doing this at the expense of some of the clans who feel they are being exploited. I know if the mercs had a good alternative they would prefer to do that than just piss off delta.

[Gyrok]

Deathlike, on 26 January 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

Just for reference, you can "steal" planet flags in name by doing defenses. It's not that hard to do if you just show up for a brief defense (even through a ghost win).

Just FYI. Carry on.

This.

If you defend once against a random attack, it flips the marker.

As for your numbers of planets, if we drop a 12 man, and you drop 2, then win one more match than we do, you get the planet.

That is a rather trivial thing to base your assumptions on...considering it does not say how many times each group dropped on said planet...or how many times a given group won versus the rest.

[Aresye]

CutterWolf, on 26 January 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

Oh really? I have to call BS on that. The very first day of CW we dropped on 1 planet for almost 8 hours state with out a single lost that would cover your 13 entrys in one day. Also, how many 12 mans to you drop at the same time and how long do you drop?? Now compare that to our "single" 12 man and tell me whos working here?

I'll let the image do the talking.



We typically have 2 12mans running with people rotating in/out around the clock.

[Fox Kell]

Gyrok, on 26 January 2015 - 08:06 PM, said:

This.

If you defend once against a random attack, it flips the marker.

As for your numbers of planets, if we drop a 12 man, and you drop 2, then win one more match than we do, you get the planet.

That is a rather trivial thing to base your assumptions on...considering it does not say how many times each group dropped on said planet...or how many times a given group won versus the rest.

Well looks like you get your wish, Gyrok. Wolf has no other choice but to attack North...Well done Sir.

[Gyrok]

Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

I agree, this is no slight against delta that probably has one of the hardest working 12 mans in CW.

That said CWI has committed the most players and therefore the most hours.

This really isn't helping anyone though in terms of the squabbling.

Lets see if we can get some ideas that the devs could implement that would actually fix these issues we've been talking about.

I'm really convinced there is no bad guy here.

We just need to get a list of issues we can bring to the devs with maybe some ideas on how to solve them.

Does anyone have any idea how we might help the mercs out so they can actually do what mercs should do which is make c-bills. The problem is right now they are doing this at the expense of some of the clans who feel they are being exploited. I know if the mercs had a good alternative they would prefer to do that than just piss off delta.

The solution they seek is one that cannot be allowed, as a single faction could unilaterally attack any faction, anywhere, without bordering them directly.

Davion and Steiner could group up on CGB without even bordering their territory.

The solution for Mercs would be for them to just go to factions that border the groups they wish to attack. It is the only sensible route in all of this.

[RogueLdr]

Ax2Grind, on 26 January 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

No one is asking you to loose territory...we were attacking and asked if we could come to an agreement...big difference.

Well, perhaps i missed a point somewhere that you've made but far as i can read the general sentiment seems to be something along the lines of
"Hey let us take a lane to CJF, stop being whiny douches and just give us some territory so we can attack them."

Even if we acquiesced to that there would be two problems.

1: with the randomness of the planets chosen, who knows how long it would take to achieve, let alone for us to take it back afterwards.
2: That's putting a lot of faith in a bunch of random people on the internet to keep their word. Once a large swath is cut out of us, it doesn't take too much imagination to assume that someone will simply say "What the hell, there's only a handful of planets to the south of us, let's just take those so we have even better attack lanes! Wolf can work their way back down behind us."

As i said in my previous post, if all you want are fights then who cares what icon you have next to your name?
If all you want is cash then have one merc unit go Kurita and trade back and forth with them... cash galore with no politics involved to muck it up.




***EDIT***

This bickering about who had what planets at what time is pointless. Let's keep this thread about ideas and not devolve into name calling and penis waving.

Edited by RogueLdr, 26 January 2015 - 08:17 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Gyrok, on 26 January 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

The solution they seek is one that cannot be allowed, as a single faction could unilaterally attack any faction, anywhere, without bordering them directly.

Davion and Steiner could group up on CGB without even bordering their territory.

The solution for Mercs would be for them to just go to factions that border the groups they wish to attack. It is the only sensible route in all of this.

I agree but the problem is there really is no "cbill" incentive for them to do that. The whole system is kind of dumb.

They really need to implement contracts or something.

Any ideas how they might do that?

[Gyrok]

Fox Kell, on 26 January 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

Well looks like you get your wish, Gyrok. Wolf has no other choice but to attack North...Well done Sir.

It is not necessarily my "wish". I did not wish for mercs to continually backstab us and pull resources from the push south. Do not mistake this as some sort of personal vendetta, or some kind of deranged slight toward CGB in general.

The fact is, we have come to a point where we are being forced to adapt to the situation we have, and we must do something about it.

As much as I would rather push toward terra, the reality is, we cannot do so without having to worry about being backstabbed continually. It will not end until we get this resolved via fighting, or other means. As for other means, I consider the other parties to be irrational and unreasonable about the terms, and thus do not expect much progress on that front.

[Gyrok]

Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 08:15 PM, said:

I agree but the problem is there really is no "cbill" incentive for them to do that. The whole system is kind of dumb.

They really need to implement contracts or something.

Any ideas how they might do that?

Put control of contracts in the hands of the permanent faction groups with sufficient rank in CW (say 10 for an arbitrary number).

Those contracts could be supplemented or even bid upon.

This could even have a random aspect with the least populated factions generating most often, and having large cbills bonuses attached.

So, if CGB/CSJ/CJF do very well, then you are more likely to see contracts for large sums from DC/CC/LC, etc.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Gyrok, on 26 January 2015 - 08:20 PM, said:

Put control of contracts in the hands of the permanent faction groups with sufficient rank in CW (say 10 for an arbitrary number).

Those contracts could be supplemented or even bid upon.

This could even have a random aspect with the least populated factions generating most often, and having large cbills bonuses attached.

So, if CGB/CSJ/CJF do very well, then you are more likely to see contracts for large sums from DC/CC/LC, etc.

Its not a bad idea.

I mean I understand you don't agree with the current merc strategy but you do have to admit the mercs don't even have a real "merc system".

Really the merc system is no different than what we have as dedicated wolves. They should have their own unique fast contract system that allows them to jump relative to who is paying them and where the battles are.

[Gyrok]

Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Its not a bad idea.

I mean I understand you don't agree with the current merc strategy but you do have to admit the mercs don't even have a real "merc system".

Really the merc system is no different than what we have as dedicated wolves. They should have their own unique fast contract system that allows them to jump relative to who is paying them and where the battles are.

I would honestly argue the current system is too fast.

They can group up in a single faction as a "super block" too quickly. Perhaps some factions require longer contracts the more planets they hold. So, let us say that CGB gets knocked down to 50k cbills, but to join them, because of the number of planets held above starting position, it now requires a 30 day contract...

Mercs will not take that contract because they want to jump often.

Factions that have strong results should be penalized for taking contracts, since they clearly are doing well for themselves...meanwhile, factions behind the ball on progress should be supplemented for taking contracts so that they regain ground.

As an example, DC should have a massive cbill bonus to contracts and a minimum of 1 week.

Edited by Gyrok, 26 January 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

I do like that idea of payout based upon need. It would be an excellent way to help fill holes in factions that really need it.

[CutterWolf]

Aresye, on 26 January 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'll let the image do the talking.



We typically have 2 12mans running with people rotating in/out around the clock.

Again, what part of "ONE 12 man team do you not understand here?" And defenses pull our tag from us. Two 12 mans around the clock vs our single 12 man for 8 hours gee lets see here......hmmmmm really?

[CutterWolf]

Blueduck, on 26 January 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

Its not a bad idea.

I mean I understand you don't agree with the current merc strategy but you do have to admit the mercs don't even have a real "merc system".

Really the merc system is no different than what we have as dedicated wolves. They should have their own unique fast contract system that allows them to jump relative to who is paying them and where the battles are.

PGI had stated several times that Merc's would be on the boarder worlds fighting other Merc units only. IS and Clan would fight each other and IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan. IS house were to contract Mercs to expand their system into the boarder worlds and the Merc would be payed to defend and capture these worlds for those Houses. Pretty good system, not the best but it was leaps and bounds better than what we have now.

Edited by CutterWolf, 26 January 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[Gyrok]

Aresye, on 26 January 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

I'll let the image do the talking.



We typically have 2 12mans running with people rotating in/out around the clock.

Not to nitpick too much...but...

One group there is Devil Dogs/57th and less than a full 12 man at that...

Other groups cannot be seen...

Also, lately, aside from the weekends, I usually see less than a pair of 12 mans on CW nights, some nights you have 7 people on the whole server scattered across numerous dropships solo pugging during NA primetime.

So...yeah...

As for tooting your own horn...that is already getting a bit old.

It seems that cooler heads must prevail...though I thought you were calling for that...?

/offtopic

Back to relevant discussion about the issue at hand.

[CutterWolf]

RogueLdr, on 26 January 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

Well, perhaps i missed a point somewhere that you've made but far as i can read the general sentiment seems to be something along the lines of
"Hey let us take a lane to CJF, stop being whiny douches and just give us some territory so we can attack them."

Even if we acquiesced to that there would be two problems.

1: with the randomness of the planets chosen, who knows how long it would take to achieve, let alone for us to take it back afterwards.
2: That's putting a lot of faith in a bunch of random people on the internet to keep their word. Once a large swath is cut out of us, it doesn't take too much imagination to assume that someone will simply say "What the hell, there's only a handful of planets to the south of us, let's just take those so we have even better attack lanes! Wolf can work their way back down behind us."

As i said in my previous post, if all you want are fights then who cares what icon you have next to your name?
If all you want is cash then have one merc unit go Kurita and trade back and forth with them... cash galore with no politics involved to muck it up.




***EDIT***

This bickering about who had what planets at what time is pointless. Let's keep this thread about ideas and not devolve into name calling and penis waving.

But.....I like waving my penis.....