388 replies to this topic

[Ax2Grind]

I have never been in game community yet that didn't have noobs and noob builds. It's part of the learning curve. And every time I wanted to graduate myself from Noobland (not always successfully mind you) I would have to use...the internets! And TS! And usually work with other people in this thing called...groups! Sorry Radagast...most team games are not so effortless than someone can mindlessly be good at them and be on par with those who take the time to learn the game and work with others. That kind of "balancing" is a myth. Now PGI could encourage more third party sites and tools and work to integrate them...sure...but the forums are filled with the tools of the trade and if people can not be bothered to look there or talk to folks...that's the problem of those people. A little effort goes along way in this game.

[Roadbeer]

Ax2Grind, on 02 February 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

I have never been in game community yet that didn't have noobs and noob builds. It's part of the learning curve. And every time I wanted to graduate myself from Noobland (not always successfully mind you) I would have to use...the internets! And TS! And usually work with other people in this thing called...groups! Sorry Radagast...most team games are not so effortless than someone can mindlessly be good at them and be on par with those who take the time to learn the game and work with others. That kind of "balancing" is a myth. Now PGI could encourage more third party sites and tools and work to integrate them...sure...but the forums are filled with the tools of the trade and if people can not be bothered to look there or talk to folks...that's the problem of those people. A little effort goes along way in this game.

That's the difference between n00bs and bads.

N00bs = Don't know, but are willing to learn.
Bads = want the game changed to cater to their lack of commitment. In other words, an easy button.

[oldradagast]

Ax2Grind, on 02 February 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

I have never been in game community yet that didn't have noobs and noob builds. It's part of the learning curve. And every time I wanted to graduate myself from Noobland (not always successfully mind you) I would have to use...the internets! And TS! And usually work with other people in this thing called...groups! Sorry Radagast...most team games are not so effortless than someone can mindlessly be good at them and be on par with those who take the time to learn the game and work with others. That kind of "balancing" is a myth. Now PGI could encourage more third party sites and tools and work to integrate them...sure...but the forums are filled with the tools of the trade and if people can not be bothered to look there or talk to folks...that's the problem of those people. A little effort goes along way in this game.

Sorry, but that logic doesn't hold. If people should just "figure it out" on their own and doing anything else is "lazy and brainless," then why teach anything? Why have schools, textbooks, etc? Just surf around the internet until you learn whatever it is you're learning.

It amazes me the stubborn rejection of any on-boarding tools being added to this game. I find it utterly insane that people can honestly say that they don't want any easier difficulty mode for newer players or casual gamers, any tutorials, any improved integration of existing knowledge bases or tools. It's unreal, and also flies in the face of every successful business plan and implementation out there.

No sane corporation refuses to document lessons learned in obvious locations because "people should figure it out on their own." No profitable business looks for ways to AVOID attracting new customers to their product. And yet, because of what I can only assume are misplaced macho beliefs or the old "back in mah day when I started, life sucked, and so it should suck for you!" notions, we have people here clamoring for ideas that are directly opposed to every successful business plan out there.

I'd normally say let them drown in their idiocy, but since that puts my fun at risk, I speak out against it.

Roadbeer, on 02 February 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

That's the difference between n00bs and bads.

N00bs = Don't know, but are willing to learn.
Bads = want the game changed to cater to their lack of commitment. In other words, an easy button.

Lol... right, because "bads" are the people who point out problems in the game.

Or, is this more of the usual crap - when you point out a problem, we all should bow and listen to your "genius," but when somebody else points it out, they are a bad?

The only good thing about CW is that it keeps "certain people" out of the general community - and believe me, we don't miss you.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:23 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Roadbeer, on 02 February 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

That's the difference between n00bs and bads.

N00bs = Don't know, but are willing to learn.
Bads = want the game changed to cater to their lack of commitment. In other words, an easy button.

Can we add "Derps"?

Derps: Don't know, aren't willing to learn, refuses tools given, constantly QQ and demand the game be something else they wanted to play but suck at it there, and yet, want the easy version here?

Then we can have The Noob, The Bad and The Derp

Edited by Kjudoon, 02 February 2015 - 04:26 PM.

[Davers]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

I also know that expecting random PUG's to visit the forums and figure out Teamspeak on their own is pushing it - consider how many people still make horrid mech builds that a brief search on the forums would prevent.

You make pugs sound so bad. Can't figure out TS. Can't make good builds. Why the hell would I want them on my team in the first place? If I was a pug player I would be pretty angry at you for suggesting that 'We need PGI to make VOIP because pugs are idiots". But then again, since they can't be bothered to read the forums they wouldn't even see your comments.

[Roadbeer]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

Lol... right, because "bads" are the people who point out problems in the game.

Or, is this more of the usual crap - when you point out a problem, we all should bow and listen to your "genius," but when somebody else points it out, they are a bad?

The only good thing about CW is that it keeps "certain people" out of the general community.

Enjoy life in your corner, roaddrunk.

Now, see, I wasn't attacking you, just making a general statement.

But you know why YOU are a bad, because in your little list of TS servers you frequent, I didn't see you mention any of the ones associated with your faction tags. Not the FRR one, not the Davion one, and not the Liao one.

What make that bad. you're not coordinating or trying to find groups for your factions, you're just derping around the inner sphere with a chip on your shoulder because PGI wont hold your **** for you.

[oldradagast]

Davers, on 02 February 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

You make pugs sound so bad. Can't figure out TS. Can't make good builds. Why the hell would I want them on my team in the first place? If I was a pug player I would be pretty angry at you for suggesting that 'We need PGI to make VOIP because pugs are idiots". But then again, since they can't be bothered to read the forums they wouldn't even see your comments.

As for the rest, you - again - miss the point. Everyone starts bad. I see zero reason not to offer them better chances to improve themselves - heck, even a link to the forums in game would be a start... just add something... But you're too busy bashing people - and up-voting yourself - to care. Lol....

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:30 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

Sorry, but that logic doesn't hold. If people should just "figure it out" on their own and doing anything else is "lazy and brainless," then why teach anything? Why have schools, textbooks, etc? Just surf around the internet until you learn whatever it is you're learning.

No, the logic is solid. The resources are there. School is also not effortless. They provide resources. You still have to engage to learn anything. Our community has provided more resources for this game than I could ever want or need. Whats the missing piece...the personal engagement. Your argument is the one that boils down to "PGI take my test for me, because reasons. I should be able to pass this test as well as those folks who got together in a study group and wanted to learn. I should not be graded like them based on the fact that I stubbornly refuse to learn."

[Davers]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

You liked your own post? Wow, that's lame... I guess you need somebody to listen to you...

As for the rest, you - again - miss the point. Everyone starts bad. I see zero reason not to offer them better chances to improve themselves - heck, even a link to the forums in game would be a start... just add something... But you're too busy bashing people - and up-voting yourself - to care. Lol....

I didn't like my own post.

*grumbles about stupid pugs who can't even read a forum right*

[oldradagast]

Davers, on 02 February 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

I didn't like my own post.

*grumbles about stupid pugs who can't even read a forum right*

My apologies. Give how much old roadbooze spams the forums with his lunacy, I saw the purple flag and just assumed it was more of his nonsense. My bad - didn't mean to involve you in that... and your post was truthfully rather funny, so it couldn't have been one of his anyway.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:45 PM.

[Roadbeer]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Lol... Wow! Actually, we have a private Teamspeak server just to avoid loud-mouth tools (you might know the kind, smart-guy) and since we rotate groups a lot, there's no point in sticking to one server.

In short, we're actually a team and are able to work together.I'd love to know what "team" would have you... TrollsRUs, maybe? Unreal... Oh, don't forget to upvote your second post there, Sparky, you missed one.

Check this guy out, he's so unstable he can't even tell that there is more than one Marik that thinks he's a fool.

*grumbles about stupid bads and their detachment from reality*

Edited by Roadbeer, 02 February 2015 - 04:32 PM.

[oldradagast]

Roadbeer, on 02 February 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Check this guy out, he's so unstable he can't even tell that there is more than one Marik that thinks he's a fool.

*grumbles about stupid bads and their detachment from reality*

Keep on posting that nonsense - you're setting such a fine example! Lol...

Let me know when I can join your "team" and be a "big man" like you? Hahahahaha!

And this is what we're supposed to shoot for? Maybe shoot AT, but seriously? Wow!

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:34 PM.

[Roadbeer]

oldradagast, on 02 February 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

Let me know when I can join your "team" and be a "big man" like you? Hahahahaha!

The link is in my signature.

[Davers]

In the end it doesn't matter. I have always been pro-VOIP, and I am glad it is coming. Of course, now that pugs will all have an easy way to communicate with each other, TKs will be on the upswing.

What is sad is that PGI has already forseen that there will be a need to deactivate Global Chat before it even arrived. Guess they know this community all too well.

[oldradagast]

Davers, on 02 February 2015 - 04:36 PM, said:

In the end it doesn't matter. I have always been pro-VOIP, and I am glad it is coming. Of course, now that pugs will all have an easy way to communicate with each other, TKs will be on the upswing.

What is sad is that PGI has already forseen that there will be a need to deactivate Global Chat before it even arrived. Guess they know this community all too well.

Exactly. Which is why if they did it RIGHT they would have focused on using the tools that exist out there - getting people to them, setting up a general PUG server on Comstar or wherever, and so on. Then, link the stuff into the game. Just have a "launch VoIP" tab, with the options on it (Teamspeak, Mumble, etc.), and drop the user into the default PUG server. It would be simple, at least in theory.

Or, in the game, the default VoIP should only be the people in your group with whom you drop. Nobody is going to form a group with people they hate, so that's a safe function that should work fine.

But turning on VoIP in the entire team by default? Nothing but idiocy will come of it... and knowing our luck, they'll probably somehow "forget" or break the feature to turn it off, like the whole cockpit glass fiasco that needed to be modified in a user setting file manually for months... ugh.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:44 PM.

[Mystere]

Ax2Grind, on 02 February 2015 - 04:14 PM, said:

I have never been in game community yet that didn't have noobs and noob builds. It's part of the learning curve. And every time I wanted to graduate myself from Noobland (not always successfully mind you) I would have to use...the internets! And TS! And usually work with other people in this thing called...groups! Sorry Radagast...most team games are not so effortless than someone can mindlessly be good at them and be on par with those who take the time to learn the game and work with others. That kind of "balancing" is a myth. Now PGI could encourage more third party sites and tools and work to integrate them...sure...but the forums are filled with the tools of the trade and if people can not be bothered to look there or talk to folks...that's the problem of those people. A little effort goes along way in this game.

Rad is putting up a defense for folks who simply refuse to do something to improve their situation and instead demand that PGI cater to them. They were very successful in doing so with regard to the regular queues and thus want a repeat in CW.

Don Quixote will have much better luck than any of you in trying to convince him otherwise.

[xWiredx]

So I read the OP, then realizing it was a week old and there were 11 pages I hit the button to go to the last page. This conversation devolved quickly, and I'm pretty sure it's mostly people that don't know what they're talking about telling other people they don't know what they're talking about back and forth forever.

To address the OP:
It appears you, like many of us, have dropped into what can only be known as thunderbolt hell. Yes, the quirks on it are definitely out of line. No, they are not immune to death.

The problem I've seen is often this - a 12-man will drop in mostly t-bolts with a few other mechs. I've seen the t-bolts often paired with a couple ECM spiders and LRM boats, which is a really crappy group to try to push against since they have you at a distance and you still have to get the gates open. As soon as your disorganized team (usually pugs) sees the ridiculous firepower, they back down and play scared. This causes the team to take way too much damage before even getting in the door, which makes for bad trades.

What you have to do - not play scared, and attempt to give the team direction. If nobody tries to give direction, the team goes in several directions and derps around while peeing its collective pants. By quickly focusing on getting the gate open and not worrying about taking a little damage each, the team can get in the door, close the distance, and start making the defending team worry about your objectives a little more. Make good, smart trades with the enemy after getting through the gate, and even 12 solo players can win a match.

[oldradagast]

Mystere, on 02 February 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

Rad is putting up a defense for folks who simply refuse to do something to improve their situation and instead demand that PGI cater to them. They were very successful in doing so with regard to the regular queues and thus want a repeat in CW.

Don Quixote will have much better luck than any of you in trying to convince him otherwise.

Right... because expecting a game mode to provide matches where both sides have a decent shot at winning is soooo terrible and caters to "bad players."

No, no, no... clearly, the current setup, with a laughable number of one-sided matches (thanks to zero matchmaking) is so much better!

Why, look at all the new players flocking to the groups that stomp them? Oh, wait... that's not happening... they quit CW and probably MWO entirely.

Well, maybe the mid-tier players are enjoying the mix of stomps and being stomped. Oh, wait... no, we quit CW because the Public queues provide more fun and challenge.

Um... okay... I guess the elite are enjoying stomping PUG's and other targets? Right? Right? Of course they are - and that's what this is really about... heaven forbid the free wins are taken away!

Lol... so much "skill."

Edited by oldradagast, 02 February 2015 - 04:50 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Roadbeer, on 02 February 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Check this guy out, he's so unstable he can't even tell that there is more than one Marik that thinks he's a fool.

*grumbles about stupid bads and their detachment from reality*

I thought Roadbeer was the only person playing for Marik, since everyone quit because the game mode is so bad. I will have to cancel the shipment of champagne I had planned to send him for expanding the Marik border single handily.

Now that I think about it, whenever I face a group of Marik Pugs, they seem to be far more organized than usual. I wonder how they do that...must be dark magic...

Mystere, on 02 February 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

Rad is putting up a defense for folks who simply refuse to do something to improve their situation and instead demand that PGI cater to them. They were very successful in doing so with regard to the regular queues and thus want a repeat in CW.

Don Quixote will have much better luck than any of you in trying to convince him otherwise.

You are right. I am by nature optimistic...but you are right...I will go tilt against windmills in other threads.

[N0MAD]

R Razor, on 02 February 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Which is EXACTLY why so many people flocked to the clans when they were released..........and now most of those same people are whining because there is ONE SINGLE IS MECH that has an obvious ability to engage at long range. Oh the huge manatee!!!!!!

You are not very well informed on this are you, there are many IS mechs that out range the Clans with long range energy weaps, many, thats not including the better missile/and ballistic ranges that the IS enjoys.