388 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

As was predicted... the only real community warfare is on the forums, and it has nothing to do with diplomacy.

(That in-game Tab is just a nifty game mode with puretech teams...in another queue.)

Where's the diplomacy? Where's the backstabbing, the begrudging alliances? The Non-aggression packs?
In... Name... Only. (No enforcement, no accountability.)

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However- Mystere is actively engaged in the only Community Warfare we have, so good on ya.

Edited by Livewyr, 27 January 2015 - 05:22 AM.

[Ax2Grind]

Livewyr, on 27 January 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

As was predicted... the only real community warfare is on the forums, and it has nothing to do with diplomacy.

(That in-game Tab is just a nifty game mode with puretech teams...in another queue.)

Where's the diplomacy? Where's the backstabbing, the begrudging alliances? The Non-aggression packs?
In... Name... Only. (No enforcement, no accountability.)

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However- Mystere is actively engaged in the only Community Warfare we have, so good on ya.

You don't need in-game enforcement to have the things you mention. In fact, it's easy to argue that we indeed do have Unit Diplomacy, as well as NAP's, acts of War, and the breaking of those agreements currently.

[Livewyr]

Ax2Grind, on 27 January 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

You don't need in-game enforcement to have the things you mention. In fact, it's easy to argue that we indeed do have Unit Diplomacy, as well as NAP's, acts of War, and the breaking of those agreements currently.

What do you have to stop me from trolling CGB by joining CGB, grabbing a 12man of friends, and attacking CSJ or CW over and over?

Edited by Livewyr, 27 January 2015 - 06:14 AM.

[RG Notch]

Livewyr, on 27 January 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

What do you have to stop me from trolling CGB by joining CGB, grabbing a 12man of friends, and attacking CSJ or CW over and over?

And what would you have PGI do?

[salkeee]

HOW CW BECOME A HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE FOR PLAYERS


For me less performance is bigest issue 2nd big issue is waiting 3rd kinda issue I need CBILLs

[Livewyr]

RG Notch, on 27 January 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

And what would you have PGI do?

I'm so glad you asked! I've only said it a dozen times over the past month or so.

1: Unit provinces. (Think WoT clan wars) Select your overall faction and that border will be superimposed over your territory, as well as anyone else who selects that faction.
2: Actual logistics (not necessarily the same way WoT did in chip form, but some form of logistics so a unit/player doesn't have 100% resources everywhere 100% of the time..)

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Intrafaction, and interfaction negotiations are now enforceable. (Don't like with CGBI is doing? Tell them about it, and get the other units to back you up! If they still don't want to play by the CGB rules... wipe them off the map and let them come back in from the periphery.)
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What about the pugs, you ask? They would have their own province and operate much as everyone does now..

The price of not being in a unit but still being able to participate.

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Now, since this is the umpteenth time I've put this idea forth, I'm not going to put every little detail down.. if you have any questions, ask- and I will answer them.

[RG Notch]

Livewyr, on 27 January 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

I'm so glad you asked! I've only said it a dozen times over the past month or so.

1: Unit provinces. (Think WoT clan wars) Select your overall faction and that border will be superimposed over your territory, as well as anyone else who selects that faction.
2: Actual logistics (not necessarily the same way WoT did in chip form, but some form of logistics so a unit/player doesn't have 100% resources everywhere 100% of the time..)

-----------------------------------
Intrafaction, and interfaction negotiations are now enforceable. (Don't like with CGBI is doing? Tell them about it, and get the other units to back you up! If they still don't want to play by the CGB rules... wipe them off the map and let them come back in from the periphery.)
-----------------------------------
What about the pugs, you ask? They would have their own province and operate much as everyone does now..

The price of not being in a unit but still being able to participate.

-----------------------------------

Now, since this is the umpteenth time I've put this idea forth, I'm not going to put every little detail down.. if you have any questions, ask- and I will answer them.

Who makes these "rules"?

[nehebkau]

I see less thunderbolts than i see SCRs or Timbers.... and I have had good experiences in CW, not horrible, playing with a thunderbolt -- now on equal footing with SCRs as far as damage.

Edited by nehebkau, 27 January 2015 - 06:56 AM.

[Livewyr]

RG Notch, on 27 January 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

Who makes these "rules"?

Could you clarify your question?

[Demonic]

What I can not accept is that they force me to play something that I do not want, I have to play a counter when I want to defend.
Lose 30 minutes of my time knowing that you have no chance with a group of pugs IS, with trial mechs, without teamspeak and sometimes terrible skills against a trained and well connected defending clan unit.
It is pathetic.
That reason keeps me and some more ppl I know away from CW. If you can not provide an enjoyable gaming experience for casual players the game has not any future.

CW is not even a beta, is a pre alpha without any role playing, without resource management without troop movements, something extremely basic than others have achieved 10 years ago with much less technology and resources.

Edited by Demonic, 27 January 2015 - 07:09 AM.

[Livewyr]

Demonic, on 27 January 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

What I can not accept is the indiscriminate queue.

Simplified that for you. (Twice)

[RG Notch]

Livewyr, on 27 January 2015 - 06:57 AM, said:

Could you clarify your question?

Who makes the rules and enforces the inter and intra faction interactions?

[Livewyr]

RG Notch, on 27 January 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

Who makes the rules and enforces the inter and intra faction interactions?

Another great question!

Well- here is how we did it in WoT. I was in MLP, a (unit) part of NASA (a purely community driven alliance of about 6 units) in 2011... there were agreements between the leadership of these units (negotiations) on how best to maintain the NASA territory and distribute the resources within the territory bloc we held. The leadership formed a council for NASA (it was kind of like a republic) and when one of the units got a bit greedy and stretched their end of the agreement, they were punished with territory loss. (We gave it back once they agreed to go about the move via proper channels so everyone could prepare, or veto.)

It would be much the same way here. Leadership from units would represent their units within the intrafaction setting (council) and also be the ones empowered to make or break Alliance/NAP with other factions (interfaction.)

Player Driven community warfare.


(If it goes to hell in a handbasket for Marik.. you might even have a Marik Civil War! )

Edited by Livewyr, 27 January 2015 - 07:10 AM.

[CyclonerM]

Livewyr, on 27 January 2015 - 07:07 AM, said:

Player Driven community warfare.

Exactly.

Marik parliament, Clan Councils etc. made by players (unit leaders) with the Captain-General/Khan/Prince as NPC.

[Kjudoon]

CyclonerM, on 27 January 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Exactly.

Marik parliament, Clan Councils etc. made by players (unit leaders) with the Captain-General/Khan/Prince as NPC.

PGI staffer as the head of a faction will need people to delegate authority to, all of whom should be staff of PGI.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 January 2015 - 07:15 AM.

[Livewyr]

CyclonerM, on 27 January 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

Exactly.

Marik parliament, Clan Councils etc. made by players (unit leaders) with the Captain-General/Khan/Prince as NPC.

Kjudoon, on 27 January 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

PGI staffer as the head of a faction will need people to delegate authority to, all of whom should be staff of PGI.

Why?

1: (Cycloner) Players could elect a Khan/Prince/Coordinator/Cap.Gen/Archon/Chancellor if they so chose.. or they could leave it blank and just have a council. (That would be their RP/Gov't Prerogative...)
2: (Kjudoon) PGI can just stay out of it from an admin point of view. If the staff want to play in Cwars, they can join a unit, make their own unit, or pug with the faction of their choice.. like everyone else.

Edited by Livewyr, 27 January 2015 - 07:21 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Livewyr, on 27 January 2015 - 07:19 AM, said:

Why?

1: (Cycloner) Players could elect a Khan/Prince/Coordinator/Cap.Gen/Archon/Chancellor if they so chose.. or they could leave it blank and just have a council. (That would be their RP/Gov't Prerogative...)
2: (Kjudoon) PGI can just stay out of it from an admin point of view. If the staff want to play in Cwars, they can join a unit, make their own unit, or pug with the faction of their choice.. like everyone else.

How's our ECM player council doing?

That's why.

And I'm not saying PGI to stay out of it. I'm saying PGI needs to run CW like a role playing game with a set of GMs. I just did this with my unit while waiting for CW. Worked great. One head GM, multiple co GMs to handle factions and their needs, cohesive storyline and the flexibility to go and make cool and neat things.

This is not something to be left in the players hands completely. We, as a whole are too irresponsible as a group.

Sorry, it's just 30 years of gaming experience talking.

[Livewyr]

Kjudoon, on 27 January 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

How's our ECM player council doing?

That's why.

And I'm not saying PGI to stay out of it. I'm saying PGI needs to run CW like a role playing game with a set of GMs. I just did this with my unit while waiting for CW. Worked great. One head GM, multiple co GMs to handle factions and their needs, cohesive storyline and the flexibility to go and make cool and neat things.

This is not something to be left in the players hands completely. We, as a whole are too irresponsible as a group.

Sorry, it's just 30 years of gaming experience talking.

Hmm, seems you found the problem with the player ECM council. PGI.

Kjudoon, on 27 January 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

How's our ECM player council doing? I'm saying PGI needs to run...

That's why.

The ECM player council was all ready to go.. Russ just kept having this Town Hall meeting he had to do... and then another one... and then another one...

I think PGI can leave player decisions within their game... to the players. They just need to develop a system where that can work. (Wargaming seemed to do it just fine.. they have a flourishing community warfare and they are completely detached aside from enabling through programming.)
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You're mixing development of the game, with community warfare.. and the two are not necessarily related, I would argue that if development was successful, they would not need to be related at all.

Players, given their own leadership will either run their unit into the ground and have to try and start again from the periphery.. or flourish with good diplomacy and combat skill.

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EDIT: I see your 30 years of "gaming experience" and raise you my 20, with membership and participation with the most successful unit of 2011 in World of Tanks.

How many MMO's were you playing in 1985? (On-line credentials are kind of silly...and irrelevant in a logical discussion.)

Edited by Livewyr, 27 January 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Raflik]

Quote

Marik parliament, Clan Councils etc. made by players (unit leaders)

And how's those "councils" will be elected.

How many representative? Each unit aligned to a faction(then ppl start to make many very small units just to have voice), or just few "ELYTED" units(then the grumble will start "why they, but not us?"

How much power will each person in council have? - everyone will be equal (then some derp aliance could make unfavourable move), or someone will have decisive vote (again: why they, not we)?

Power in such councill will depend on unit size (many units claim themselves as 100+ or even 500+, yea... maybe they have 500 ppl invited in unit but half of them are inactive, and other half live in 12h different timezone), or skill (how to measure such).

Councils systems provide too much injustice (like real politics) so it shouldn't be added in my opinion.
Mere Mercenary alliance system and ceasefire like it works now in CW is perfect.

Quote

What do you have to stop me from trolling CGB by joining CGB, grabbing a 12man of friends, and attacking CSJ or CW over and over?

NOTHING! Just because some merc. corp among CGB and CSJ or CW agreed on ceasefire IT'S NOT DAMN WHOLE CLAN. JUST SOME MERC UNITS.

[skorpionet]

CW is unplayable versus 12 man, but also versus 2 or 3 groups.

Check IS map... I don't think that there is an IS supremacy problem.... you know...