144 replies to this topic

[Latorque]

Brody319, on 27 January 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

used google translate so its probably horribly wrong but:
Sniper - Heckenschütze
Sharpshooter - Scharfschütze

Hm, that's actually spot on .
The synaptic link between the design and the name "Marauder" is hotwired for me; but of course i would pay dearly for something that comes from Alex' drawing board with similar design elements and named "Raider" or whatever. Damn, there's already a raider. There are so many mechs that there are barely any names left...

Problem with that is that the forums and any other outlet for player's opinions would likely explode with the high-handed fury of the hardcore BT-crowd against PGIs heresy to the established lore. There's a certain risk that they could lose a large cut of those guys (some or even most of them might come back after a while; all the while complaining that this game is an abomination and cant hold a candle to MW4 ). It's all wild guesswork; but they would face pressure from both sides of the fence - i'm not sure if they would want to risk that.

Edited by Latorque, 28 January 2015 - 05:34 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Latorque, on 28 January 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:

Hm, that's actually spot on .
The synaptic link between the design and the name "Marauder" is hotwired for me; but of course i would pay dearly for something that comes from Alex' drawing board with similar design elements and named "Raider" or whatever. Damn, there's already a raider. There are so many mechs that there are barely any names left...

Problem with that is that the forums and any other outlet for player's opinions would likely explode with the high-handed fury of the hardcore BT-crowd against PGIs heresy to the established lore. There's a certain risk that they could lose a large cut of those guys (some or even most of them might come back after a while; all the while complaining that this game is an abomination and cant hold a candle to MW4 ). It's all wild guesswork; but they would face pressure from both sides of the fence - i'm not sure if they would want to risk that.

That aint no battlemech, that is a friggin' logger mech........

We can rename the Marauder to a Raider and call it good.

[Latorque]

LordKnightFandragon, on 28 January 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

That aint no battlemech, that is a friggin' logger mech........

We can rename the Marauder to a Raider and call it good.

Hey, i'm with you. You can call it Sheela if it looks Marauder-ish

[Tombstoner]

CutterWolf, on 26 January 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

How or why is the Marauder out? Yes, PGI can't bring in a copy of the artwork/model but there is nothing stopping them from creating their own version of it. The same goes for the Rifleman........

http://www.nogutsnogalaxy.net/forum/

That page has 3 versions of the unseen that i find acceptable. no reasons not to use them.
Archer on the left
warhammer on the right
Marauder center in the NGNG banner

[Apnu]

Bront, on 27 January 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

FYI, the Grand Dragon has the same DGN designation as the dragon, so they could simply release them as Dragon Variants.

I know. Why we don't have a Grand Dragon in the game is a mystery to me. The GD, like the Panther, is a signature mech of Kurita. More flavor in MWO always wins.

[Apnu]

Tombstoner, on 28 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

http://www.nogutsnogalaxy.net/forum/

That page has 3 versions of the unseen that i find acceptable. no reasons not to use them.
Archer on the left
warhammer on the right
Marauder center in the NGNG banner

Those designs are probably fodder for a HG lawsuit. They do look great, I'll admit. HG is probably aware of NGNG, but NGNG is small potatoes, and probably would get away as a non-profit and or fair use parody protections.

In short, IMO, HG litigates as a form of revenue, there's no revenue to generate from NGNG. Whereas PGI is clearly for-profit and litigation could generate revenue for HG and I'm sure they'd strike. PGI's already seen a taste of HG after the teaser video showed a Macross Warhammer. Which looked great, but they weren't aware of the HG history and got a rude education in it. Almost torpedo'd the game.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Tombstoner, on 28 January 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

http://www.nogutsnogalaxy.net/forum/

That page has 3 versions of the unseen that i find acceptable. no reasons not to use them.
Archer on the left
warhammer on the right
Marauder center in the NGNG banner

What thread? that link is just the forum....

NM, I see the art in the background. Yeah, those could work, except they look almost entirely like the mechs that im sure HG would QQ about. BUt yeah, id love to see those.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 28 January 2015 - 08:25 AM.

[Brody319]

Apnu, on 28 January 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

I know. Why we don't have a Grand Dragon in the game is a mystery to me. The GD, like the Panther, is a signature mech of Kurita. More flavor in MWO always wins.

I believe the heros are technically Grand Dragons.

[Asakara]

Techorse, on 27 January 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

So basically use synonyms and such to get away with it?

Marauder -> Raider
Warhammer -> Gavel (Justicy)
Archer -> Rogue (Aren't Rogues usually archers in games?)
Wasp/Stinger -> Dagger/Shiv
Rifleman -> Sharpshooter? Sniper? (Hard one to do)

Not sure. I'd play the 'mechs since we'd know with a wink and a smile what they're really supposed to be, but here come the diehards to tell us we're heretics who must burn.

The names of the mechs are not the issue. A "Marauder" in Battletech is known as an "Officer Battlepod" in Robotech.

It is only the art that is an issue as both a BT Marauder and a RT Officer Battlepod look the same..

[Apnu]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

I believe the heros are technically Grand Dragons.

I disagree. A Grand Dragon is a 3050 mod of the 3025 DRG-1N. Offically its designation is DRG-5K. It replaces the ballistics in the right arm with a PPC. Packs a 360XL stock. It keeps the hardpoints of the DRG-1N, so there's a LRM10 in the CT, and two medium lasers, one in the LA the other LT.

The Fang can't do the Grand Dragon stock build. There are no energy points in the RA.

The Flame, has the hard points to mount the DRG-5K's stock weapons, but the tubes are wrong in the CT and the LT has ballistics not energy, which means both MLs would have to move to the RA. Also its max engine is 360, not the stock engine rating.

I always hope PGI would release a DRG-5K like they did with the surprise extra mechs for the clans recently. I don't drive Dragons because I want a GD and I'm holding out until I get one.

[Brody319]

Asakara, on 28 January 2015 - 08:41 AM, said:

The names of the mechs are not the issue. A "Marauder" in Battletech is known as an "Officer Battlepod" in Robotech.

It is only the art that is an issue as both a BT Marauder and a RT Officer Battlepod look the same..

No, if PGI releases the unseen mechs with their original names, then HG will know exactly what is going on and will instantly file a lawsuit. Even if they make the Marauder look like a Atlas, Harmony Gold will still sue and delay the court case till PGI gives up or goes bankrupt.

[Asakara]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

No, if PGI releases the unseen mechs with their original names, then HG will know exactly what is going on and will instantly file a lawsuit. Even if they make the Marauder look like a Atlas, Harmony Gold will still sue and delay the court case till PGI gives up or goes bankrupt.

The issue was always the visual images and had nothing to do with the names.

Here is FASA's settlement statement:
https://groups.googl...cA/FOaEElpFd6oJ

From the settlement statement:

At issue in this federal court litigation in Chicago were the rights to
use certain visual design images that had appeared in FASA's BattleTech
products and also appeared in Playmates' and Harmony Gold's Robotech
products.
...
As a result, BattleTech players will no longer see in
future products visual representations of any BattleMechs that FASA did
not create. All of the names, fiction and statistics for these 'Mechs,
remain in the history of the BattleTech universe.

[Aerik Lornes]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

No, if PGI releases the unseen mechs with their original names, then HG will know exactly what is going on and will instantly file a lawsuit. Even if they make the Marauder look like a Atlas, Harmony Gold will still sue and delay the court case till PGI gives up or goes bankrupt.

Is there any evidence that they will sue based on the names "Warhammer" or "Marauder" based on any past event? HG could sue PGI (or anyone else) right now for S&Gs because they think all the mechs are inspired by their designs (which would be pants on head stupid, but so would suing over the names). Nothing protects anyone from being sued ever.

I'm NOT saying they won't but given the level of ridiculousness that would be involved I'm skeptical. It's not my money to gamble (anymore) but that seems to be cranking the caution up to paranoid levels.

[Brody319]

Asakara, on 28 January 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

The issue was always the visual images and had nothing to do with the names.

Here is FASA's settlement statement:
https://groups.googl...cA/FOaEElpFd6oJ

From the settlement statement:

At issue in this federal court litigation in Chicago were the rights to
use certain visual design images that had appeared in FASA's BattleTech
products and also appeared in Playmates' and Harmony Gold's Robotech
products.
...
As a result, BattleTech players will no longer see in
future products visual representations of any BattleMechs that FASA did
not create. All of the names, fiction and statistics for these 'Mechs,
remain in the history of the BattleTech universe.

Once Again, Harmony Gold Does NOT have to WIN, the lawsuit. All they have to do is pay lawyers to delay the case, and eventually the legal costs will bankrupt PGI. They can just as easily sue for using the names and then just using broken legal tactics to keep the case out of the courtroom till either PGI has to give up, or gets starved of money.

[Aerik Lornes]

And for what it's worth, I'd love to see totally new physical design, not created to look anything like the originals, that happened to have 2 PPCs, 2MLs, and an AC/5 that was called a Marauder. I've had issues with some of the game design elements here, but the art has largely been fantastic and it would be interesting to see something truly new. I'm a grognard, and I love the originals, but the names are so enshrined in the lore of the setting, it would be nice to see something using them again even if the Maruader had "normal" legs and the Warhammer had "chicken" legs.

[Brody319]

Aerik Lornes, on 28 January 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

Is there any evidence that they will sue based on the names "Warhammer" or "Marauder" based on any past event? HG could sue PGI (or anyone else) right now for S&Gs because they think all the mechs are inspired by their designs (which would be pants on head stupid, but so would suing over the names). Nothing protects anyone from being sued ever.

I'm NOT saying they won't but given the level of ridiculousness that would be involved I'm skeptical. It's not my money to gamble (anymore) but that seems to be cranking the caution up to paranoid levels.

Every time PGI wants to use a reseen mech, they technically ask Harmony gold because if they don't they could get destroyed in legal areas, Harmony gold knows the Warhammer and Marauder are popular, and thus can just keep saying "nope"

[Cragger]

BumbleBee, on 26 January 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Because of the community backlash over it not being the Macross design (unseen)...

Personally, I'd love to see the reseen in game. I think it looks good and would fit right in with the art design of the Mech's we already have, but i doubt it will ever happen.

Wan't much backlash at all when the Locust was introduced with the visual model of the Gun from 3127...

[Asakara]

Brody319, on 28 January 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Once Again, Harmony Gold Does NOT have to WIN, the lawsuit. All they have to do is pay lawyers to delay the case, and eventually the legal costs will bankrupt PGI. They can just as easily sue for using the names and then just using broken legal tactics to keep the case out of the courtroom till either PGI has to give up, or gets starved of money.

Why then did HG allow FASA to continue using names like "Marauder" when they agreed to the settlement in 1997?

[Milocinia]

I have a great idea! How about PGI add a filter to the forum that auto deletes any thread created that contains the words Marauder, Warhammer, Unseen, Reseen, Harmony Gold etc.

[Brody319]

Asakara, on 28 January 2015 - 09:35 AM, said:

Why then did HG allow FASA to continue using names like "Marauder" when they agreed to the settlement in 1997?

Because they don't own the rights to the names! but with the ****** up legal system in the US, even if they used the confirmed, and designs they said were fine (reseens) then they can and likely will sue, and then just delay the court case.

Even if its clearly PGI in the right, and they would win in court, Harmony Gold just has to exploit the system and delay the case till the legal costs destroy PGI. If America had some form of time limit on court cases, where after a specific period the case had to go through the legal system, then this could be solved. but outside of Harmony gold suddenly growing a heart, or American politicians realizing how ****** up the system is. PGI can't add some mechs.


the Reseens we have now are likely not very popular, but the Warhammer and Marauder is, so HG will denie them access to that mech.