146 replies to this topic

[BigMo5]

Been reading and the 2 top tatics are being used because the game really lacked something to counter it.

I know they have been around longer, just condensing to games from the past 2 decades

Circle Straffing, (MW3) Was a defensive tatic use by light/Med in conjunction with Lag Driving, if you don't understand here is a quick Synapsys. MW3s netcode was written by a monkey and all you needed was a 28.8 modem and BOOM. The lag was enough that all you had to do was rock back and forth and it made hitting you really hard. Personally I hope this is here, there will be uses for things like Streak SRMs...Lock SHOOT BOOM...

Pop-Tarting (MW4) was simple...Load up and Laser boat hide behind a hill and POOF awesomeness...LOL...This was due to the Developers not allowing the LRM rack to shoot up and out. Also without a Viable Medium Laser(Thanks MW3) there was not much to stop the jump snipers.


This is just how i remember the 2 games, i like how the LRMs now are top down. This will keep the PopTarters at bay. I just want my Thumper Back....MWWHAAAhahaahahaaaa...

[Vilekon]

The way I see it, if you lower damage at range people are just gonna close in on each other. And in close in fight you either fight it face to face, yeah right only if I'm in an Atlas, or circle of death it.

So dropping damage at range would just increase the circle of death occurrence, hills/terrain I think are the best answers it would allow for more ducking in and out of cover as well as flanking more than a damage reduction at range.

[Syro]

As someone who indents to split scouting and fire support, here's my take on seeing a pair of mechs going CoD on a Many V Many battlefield:
"OOO!! Keep them busy so i can get a few alphas off on them!"

[KJ Crow]

Dear enemy....
During a recent engagement you eliminated several of my regiment using a tactic that we over here have not yet mastered or found a counter for.
Please can you cease and dessist using this tactic until we have had a think about it?.... may I suggest that we line up our forces in organised lines and take shots at each other until one of us has no forces left?.... I know this suggestion sounds like 'camping' and we all know there is a certain resistance to that method of warfare, but the difference is, we will do it on an open field with none of that pesky cover to hinder our progress. Could I also request that we only use direct fire weapons and not any of those infuriating missiles.... the loud explosions on impact have left me with a bad case of tinitus and I find it hard to sleep at night....

/sarcasm off

Ok, CoD, Pop Tarting, Camping, Sniping, Legging, Ramming, DFA and many other tactics are all viable....if melee was implemented, so would punching, kicking, biting and pulling of hair (ok, maybe not the last 2) This game is a Warfare simulation and the object of the game is to win by completing your objectives however you see fit to do it (without hacking code, cheating or playing god).... If Devs have done their work, then heat, range limitations, reload times, environmental factors and player skill juggling these things will be the deciding factors in an engagement... and players are all going to play the way that works for them... limit the options, you limit the player base.

[grimzod]

Leg the little bastages. Then their circle of death becomes a hobble to death.

[Stray Ion]

KJ Crow, on 29 June 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

the loud explosions on impact have left me with a bad case of tinitus and I find it hard to sleep at night....

This made me laugh so hard

[TB Freelancer]

Stray Ion, on 28 June 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

NO do not take out the "CIRCLE OF DEATH". It takes skill to perform and make every hit land.

Exactly.

Personally I never depended on it much myself, but as with most things players whine about, its simply because they don't have the skill or knowledge to counter it. Circle strafing lights/meds were quite easy to swat, I've only encountered a couple of pilots that ever gave me any real trouble using the technique.

EDIT: I mainly piloted mediums and the occasional heavy, and would use every trick in the book to keep bigger mechs off balance. I'd switch directions, change speeds, run radar off, dead stop then full throttle, cycle big weapons so I could keep hitting the same point (usually a side torso) hard enough to shake the other mech to further keep it off balance.

Try doing all that in 1st person view while your torso is twisted around 90 degrees while avoiding running into things and avoiding getting a single alpha strike that would spell death no matter how you look at it.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 29 June 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[Ran Ito]

Circle of death will always exist. It can be effective in some situations, but it's rarely ever ideal.

Off the top of my head though there are ways to minimize the circle jerking:

1) Don't be out in the open. Use the terrain.
2) Work as a team and cover each other.
3) Leg your opponent if he's dumb enough to run out at you in the open. This is can be made exponentially more effective if you're 1) not in the open; and 2) working as a team to focus fire on fool.

[Glythe]

Hang on here a minute.....

We know the TT has weapons that have min and max ranges. We do NOT know if weapons deal reduced damage at range (but I highly suspect this is the case). We DO know that certain weapons have minimum ranges (such as the LRM which will bounce harmlessly off the target if it has not had enough time to arm during flight).

That implies that the devs are paying attention to the TT weapon ranges. So that means PPC will be unusable at point blank range unless you opt for ER PPC. That would really be a nice balance move and I can't imagine why they would ignore such range restrictions given that they have range restrictions on another weapon.

As for circle strafing... thats why you have team mates. It is also what makes a light mech valuable as they have a chance to whittle down an assault in a one on one fight.

[Odweaver]

PewPew, on 28 June 2012 - 09:01 PM, said:

From Wiki - "Metagamingis a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset," Simply, it's the game within the game that is shaped by game mechanics, player trends, and psychology.

Metagame IS the game. Every game has a metagame. It's basically unwritten strategy. Pop-tarting was once the dominant metagame in game MW. In the NBA, the metagame is focused on strong offensive players. In the NCAA, the metagame is focused on strong defensive plays. I'm not a huge basketball guy, so if someone could confirm this.

I do appreciate circle strafing in that it's much like a dogfight and gives MW a lot of character. The problem is that it becomes kind of silly when everyone kind of runs in and begins circle strafing. I'd like to see the game have more than just that, and I'm pretty sure one of the devs in a video said he would like the same thing.

Then get in formation with your team and counter it.
Don't change the mechanics of the game because you don't want to use teamwork.

[Fire for Effect]

I see no reason to eliminate it. It is abit as if to remove all obsticles because someone might hide behind em...

[Sertsa]

Stray Ion, on 28 June 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

Engineers thought that too. Look at the F4 phantom which was developed without any kind of machine gun. Its kill death ratio was horrid until the addition of a gunpod (yes I know it was also due to poorly working missles). To the best of my knowledge, they never made the same mistake again. The safest spot in a dog fight is still behind your opponent.

Yes I know its not on the OP's topic, but I let too much information about tactics slip in a machine gun thread. My knowledge may give me an edge or it may not, but the less who know about it increases my chances.

GL with those machine guns in game, I used to have a few small mechs with them years ago but *shrug*

[Dragonsbane]

To the OP I'm a close combat guy and if you say that I will give more damage at close range, hell, you will just make my day.

WoB Particleman, on 28 June 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Get rid of circle straffe, it is the number one thing that has kept the true Battletech players from really taking a hold of MW3 and 4. Making the weapons ranged will not help either, use terain and cover just like the original game.

Based on this post, I realized that the true Battletech players might be on the wrong game.... they should try mwtactics.com


I don't know why people don't like circle strafing... Do you all run on 100 ton assaults and are angry the faster mechs outmaneuvers you? This is the point in being faster, isn't it?
Not to mention that is counter intuitive to ask for more strategic combat removing strategic maneuvers from the game.

Edited by Dragonsbane, 30 June 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[donkeybas]

What in the world is "drawn out" circle strafing? A light caught up in the middle of an intense battle could be zig zagging around for several minutes. Should they be standing toe to toe with an Atlas and slugging it out?

Depending on the map, combat will not be always as linear as you think. You can't circle strafe when there is a skyscraper or hill in between combatants.

I don't think we should be suggesting combat changes until we all get to see what it is actually like on our own screens.

Edited by donkeybas, 30 June 2012 - 04:30 PM.

[Volomon]

I like the idea of juking or side stepping. This should be implemented I'm not sure if the mechs are capable of the fast movement needed to do this though other than light mechs. There's nothing wrong with strafing from what I understand it's already heavily limited in the fact that you can't aim your main torso weapons while doing this unless you stopped. I imagine that's why light mechs are often ignored in the video when their strafing like that.

[Dr Evil LRC]

Don't be such little girls about the circle of death. It's a valid tacti developed out of necessity. You can find instances of tactics that are used over and over again throughout military history. Then someone comes along with a new idea that changes everything. Come up with a new idea, don't suggest changes to the physics of the game because you are upset about someones tactics. Eventually someone will find something else that works and you will see that exploited over and over again.

If you don't like the circle of death learn to be more accurate with your shots. Shoot a leg. Have a buddy shoot the guy while he is running circles around you. Run the other direction. Maneuver to some terrain that doesn't allow that technique. There are so many other solutions to your complaint besides, "change the physics of the game because I don't like how someone is playing."

[Zarkus]

I don't see the problem with circle strafing. We're not talking about bunny-hopping, a la Counter-Strike. Boxers circle strafe, and they're not the only example that exists in nature of such a thing.

[Bloodweaver]

grimzod, on 29 June 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Leg the little bastages. Then their circle of death becomes a hobble to death.

Yup.

If you consistently find yourself dying due to being circle-strafed, the problem is YOU. Circle-strafing is a useful tactic, but it's also fairly easy to defeat in multiple ways.

[Sumner]

Don't know if this was mentioned but in the modules you had one for Charge? I think that would be the idea if a smaller mech came into close to another?

[Falcor]

I think so long as there is environmental cover mixed in with circle strafing, it will probably be ok. I like the idea of taking cover behind structures, then popping out and shooting. It seems a smarter tactic than trading hits until one of you goes down. The only times I would ever force myself into a circle strafe dogfight with someone, is if I was confident I outgunned/outarmored him.