146 replies to this topic

[Kumakichi]

At 60 degrees you might get a few longer shots off but every fight would end up in close range. So your loadout would of course favor shorter range weapons. Or you stop and stand at longer range making for an easy target while the other mech with a shorter range loadout angles in towards you knowing you can't range him for long. Doesn't sound appealing to me unless assault mechs has that 60 degree limit but light mechs could twist to 110 maybe? Even that has drawbacks in my mind.

Edited by Kumakichi, 29 June 2012 - 06:15 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Implying Circle of Death hasn't been in since the tabletop.

Implying there's really any better way to do combat for Mechwarrior.

Implying that this wasn't a tactic started by mechwarriors that fought in the battletech simulator pods.


Wow, seriously guys, Circle Straffing is just part of the experience... I'd personally be sad to see it go.

[Hypernaut]

wiseassmodeon: Circle-Strafing aint no strategy - at best it would be a tactic - wiseassmodeoff

If you restrict close combat survivability then only thing that will happen is that all ppl will mount longrangeweapons only and camp it out - many players lack team spirit and common sense, so you really can't expect too much in terms of tactical expertise...

[CL_Kodiak]

CoD is a core piloting skill! If you can do it and do it well - you are an asset to your team. We used to train our guys in it constantly - no shooting just follow me and keep me in your crosshairs. Be aware of my position, the terrian and other mechs. Don't bump into anything etc etc.

Some people had big issues fighting in that close and it hurt our team. Honestly sitting back at range was fun for me too, but being able to pilot a mech in close quarters was key and everyone should know how to do it well IMO.

[Endless Ike]

Stray Ion, on 28 June 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Here is an idea, develope skill and learn how to combat circle straffing....

This is the most over-worn response to complaints about game mechanics on the internet. We get it, you're a MW bad-***. That doesn't really change the complaint. Go look at the Original Post again, nobody's saying its unfair or impossible to defend against, just repetitive and not really true to TT roots. It may still be the best solution, but "Rub some Dirt on it" comments are just a GD waste of everyone's time.

[Direalien]

Personally in mw4 i used to use circle of death on all the poptarts. I used a fast *** raven and would run into the middle of those guys and start ripping them up. specially if they where on the edge of a hill where it would change my elevation while they were flat. MANY times they had to have one of their team mates across the map shot me down while i was messing one or two poptarts up. Which as a raven pilot is great i am getting 2 or 3 heavy and assualt mechs to pay attention to me while my team mates are messing them or someone else up.

Also nothing was better then getting my little mech into a group of 5 or so of other mechs, i would dacne and run between them all nickle and dimeing them. Nothing was as awesome as seeing a PPC dance across one of those enemy mechs. I didnt have a ppc so they were shooting each other. SOMETHING OF PURE BEAUTY I TELL YOU!!!

[Kelinium]

MobiousOne, on 29 June 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

LOL... I was just making a point.. really... lol The game is obviously not one-on-one *sigh*

Well a very good point you made. I just expounded on it. Lol

[Kalenn]

Glad some others finally took up the gauntlet... Felt a bit lonely last night!

[BenEEeees VAT GROWN BACON]

Kalenn, on 29 June 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Glad some others finally took up the gauntlet... Felt a bit lonely last night!

[Aym]

WoB Particleman, on 28 June 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Get rid of circle straffe, it is the number one thing that has kept the true Battletech players from really taking a hold of MW3 and 4. Making the weapons ranged will not help either, use terain and cover just like the original game.

This is a false argument. The reason circle strafing didn't occur in TT was that actual skills didn't play into chances to hit, only dice did. So there was no reason to move laterally in a circle to avoid fire, whereas in any r/t video game version of Battletech there will indeed necessarily be circle-strafing. Want to snuff a circle strafer? Have your team mate(s) on hand to blast him in the side/back.

[Kosomok]

I do not se any reason to adjust game mechanics to eliminate/reduce circle strafing.... the elimination or reduction of tactical options reduces game complexity, which is the OPs rationale for his proposal.

Complexity evolves in the tactical regime because combatants learn the available mechanics (and their relative effectiveness) and then chose from the options--other players then adapt to those choices in order to counter them. Once a situation reaches a stalemate, outside forces can then be harnessed to break the stalemate--that is (in the case of reality) the introduction of new mechanics via technological adaptation (i.e. the tank in WW 1 or precision guided munitions in the Viet Nam era). This can also be modelled in simulations, especially with a progressing timeline and tech tree like MWO. Failing that, we then look at mechanics adjustments to alleviate stale gameplay. Mechanics adjustments should be reserved as a last resort to fix actual (not potential) problems and should be undertaken only after the full spectrum mechanics have been effectively tested.

My point is to let the game develop and flow naturally, given the mechanics at hand and the adaptability of the players and only intervene in the regime of mechanics if an actual problem arises.

[PhantomX]

COD is one of the main methods of attack and defense in the game removing it will make light mechs nothing more than cannon fodder. The dodge element was explored some in MW2/Merc with Relaxed Jump Jets. You could use the JJs to move the mech faster than it could move in any direction. The downside to it on there the movement bonus was the same on lights as it was to heavys which made made them have the same dodge ability. I would like to see Relaxed JJs in the game with the bonus adjusted to the weight of the mech.

[Direalien]

It is a team game. Honestly i hated getting nailed by the guy on the other hill while i was messing up some poptart across the map. But again i was very happy that i MADE them get their team mate to handle me cause they couldnt. If it takes a diashi and an atlas to kill my raven cause i COD very well. I WIN.

[FragInc]

This is the same type of argument that is prevalent in World of Tanks and other strategy games I've played... if you don't know how to use or do not wish to learn and use ALL available forms of tactics to succeed in combat then simply do not play the game and leave it to everyone else to enjoy. People always crying over something that isn't seen as "fair" for them and its because they can't figure out a strategy to overcome it. A lot of people just want to head straight into a battle and kill everything they see that is straight in front of them... there is a reason that we don't line up in straight rows and march straight at the enemy anymore in real-life combat!! I watch people on a daily basis play WoT without a clue as to what a flanking maneuver is and how to use it to create an advantage. As well, I see a lot of people that have no idea what a strategic retreat is as well. Most people I see that play WoT and similar games will run straight at an enemy and attack... that's it and nothing more. Then they will cry about how "unfair" the game is... really?!? Or the "U HAXORZ SUX!" comments start flying about.

OP, you continuously make reference to the term "strategy" in your thread posts... simply put, try learning some then!

[-Mobius-]

solemcleavu, on 29 June 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

Well a very good point you made. I just expounded on it. Lol

Thank you sir or mam,
And a fine job you did on expanding on it also. lol I was trying to pull off sarcastic funny... and failed.

[Bongo TauKat]

After seeing the in game footage, I think the terrain is going to play havoc with the circle of death as you may find yourself kissing a cliff if you are not capable.

[Stray Ion]

Endless Ike, on 29 June 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

This is the most over-worn response to complaints about game mechanics on the internet. We get it, you're a MW bad-***. That doesn't really change the complaint. Go look at the Original Post again, nobody's saying its unfair or impossible to defend against, just repetitive and not really true to TT roots. It may still be the best solution, but "Rub some Dirt on it" comments are just a GD waste of everyone's time.

Understandable.

I did read the OP. I never played TT though, I used to play AD&D as a teen so I am not against rolling dice. I do own MW3 and MW4 and a friend got me hooked with MW2. Honestly, I have no idea what MWO is going to be like, I have just seen the videos which do not show much at all and leave a lot unanswered.

I believe the Devs have a right to make a product available so everyone knows what it entails before I decide what I want changed; as I really have no idea what the game is like in its current state. Sure I can assume it would be like other MW games, but I am not certian.

What I do not get however is if you dislike tactics used against you, why are you putting yourself in a position so they "can" be used against you.

My expierences with previous MW games.

Pop Tarts- In previous games all you had to do was switch your radar to passive and find terrain that gave you the advantage, or yourself and a couple lancemates could charge them. The more targets available increases everyones chances of survival. My favorite is to hit them with enough firepower in the air so that when they land it makes a nice explosion.

COD- No one says you have stop and fight after the initial weapon fire gets their attention, If your mech is fast enough just keep running and find cover, or lead them enemy to lancemates with their radar set to passive. You can also torso twist (with some mechs) while at speed to decease the size of your hit area. Sure you may take damage, but it is limited to where it is and you have control over it.

I opened my bag of tricks and let a few fall out. I do not believe a game which I have yet to play has to be altered to avoid tactics some find unfavorable.

Also IMO limiting torso movement would unbalance the mechs and would increase the likely hood of only having a few types of mechs on the battlefield (a vast majority of the time I read every post in a thread before I reply).

[wanderer]

PewPew, on 28 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Cross-posting from http://mwomercs.com/...ange-on-damage/. Probably not an original idea, but I feel like this needs more attention.

Something I noticed in the gameplay videos is that there is still a lot of circle strafing or a linear clashing of forces. The two teams just run towards each other and then duke it out. It seems the gameplay still doesn't lend itself to more complex strategies.

Of course, it is impossible to be certain based on what we know, but discussion can only benefit us here. In addition, this has been the case for all past Mechwarrior games including the most recent MW:LL mod.

What do you guys think of the idea in the link above? To increase close range damage of certain weapons in order to make close-combat much more dangerous. If you could drop a mech much faster, there wouldn't be drawn out circle strafe matches. This would encourage smarter, stealthy maneuvering by close range mechs and make fire support mechs have to be on their toes. This would also lead to scouts being far more important to the team than just collecting locational/damage data.

Circle strafing happens when a 'Mech is on it's own and engaged by a 'Mech with significant advantages in maneuvering.

There's a solution. One of your buddies puts a few rounds in it's back while he's completely occupied with orbiting your 'Mech like some kind of 35-ton moon, since lining up a shot is rather easy while he sits there staring at you while running in circles.

It's a sign that the people playing were disorganized- they weren't covering each other when something like that happened.

[wanderer]

Toldor, on 29 June 2012 - 03:00 AM, said:

The only projectile-based weapon which makes more damage on closer targets is the Gauss Rifle. Waiting for this one :-) Must look nice when the big ball hits a mech :-)

That's the heavy gauss, which isn't introduced for a looooooong time. Standard Gauss Rifles in TT deal the same damage at point blank or the edge of long range.

Edited by wanderer, 29 June 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Pook600]

WoB Particleman, on 28 June 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Get rid of circle straffe, it is the number one thing that has kept the true Battletech players from really taking a hold of MW3 and 4. Making the weapons ranged will not help either, use terain and cover just like the original game.

But it is a tactically viable manuever that would be used in a "real world" situation.

It's just a fast forward version of flanking, all by yourself.

I am an assault mech guy, but even I have to respect the skill and viability of this tactic.