338 replies to this topic

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Mordin Ashe, on 03 February 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

We can't cut you off.

The fact that Ghost Bear territory currently lies between Wolf and IS targets is not something that is open to interpretation.

[Aresye]

Gyrok, on 31 January 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

You know...considering the debate over the chain of events that all of you keep citing, I truly wish I had logs from TS to show the extent of the conversation...

Gyrok, on 01 February 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Again, if I only had a TS log of our 3 line conversation.

Gyrok, on 01 February 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

I truly wish I had a PM log for TS.

Gyrok, on 01 February 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

I AM TELLING YOU THAT THE CONVERSATION WE HAD WENT MUCH DIFFERENTLY THAN WAS POSTED. THEREFORE I WISH I HAD TS LOGS FOR PRIVATE MESSAGES SO I COULD POST THEM AND DISPROVE THE BS.

Gyrok, on 03 February 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

1.) You conveniently did not screen cap the flying insults that spurred those remarks, there were an hour of fights, and the screen never stopped flashing red text from my side...

Every...freaking...time.

Gyrok, I'm sorry, but I believe it is YOU that needs to provide those screencaps, ts logs, etc. It's awfully convenient that every time you beat a big comp team we have to go off your word it happened. It's awfully convenient that every time you get bested by a high Elo player, there's some obscure video out there nobody can find where you "beat them." It's awfully convenient that every time anything happens, there's not a single shred of evidence other than your word that it happened.

Despite all that's been said and done in the past, I still try and look at the best in people. Part of me wants you to be right. I want to know that all this time you've been unfairly targeted and you've steadfastly refused to back down. That would be awesome, and all the hostility up to that point would be completely understandable, but every screenshot, log, and account from multiple people, in multiple units, in multiple factions, says otherwise.

I'm not even under the spotlight, and if I see anything questionable, or somebody sends an insulting PM, etc, I keep a record of it for this exact reason. You're either the most forgetful and careless person when it comes to your own reputation, or you're just flat out lying. If you aren't the person others are saying you are, then PROVE IT!

Edited by Aresye, 03 February 2015 - 11:57 PM.

[Xiphias]

Gyrok, on 03 February 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

1.) You conveniently did not screen cap the flying insults that spurred those remarks, there were an hour of fights, and the screen never stopped flashing red text from my side...

2.) CWI only helped with CGB when there was literally nothing to attack but CJF or CGB. This evening, before you cut us off again, they were stuck on running up a steiner planet that CWDG pushed to 86% before coming out to see 60+/36 in the queue and realizing there was no way the world would be lost.

3.) I do not hold personal grudges. YOUR unit began calling out how often they had killed me all evening...with UBC and several others announcing in the global chat every time I fell. If you think my response to you was petty, what do you think your entire group was to me? Are you going to try to hand wave justify it because...reasons? What do you think that made you look like to the entire group of players facing you? You think they look at you all as professionals? Upstanding guys, with class? Not one of them think anything positive of your unit after those fights. As a matter of fact, considering what some of them said, I was quite polite in translation.

Additionally, you have no idea how YOUR unit leader, Antonius Rex, has trolled me continually when I have tried to seek cessation of hostilities. I was asking your group, the ones who wrote the ceasefire to begin with, to honor their own words. Your unit leader then tried to deny that it ever happened, and then when reminded of the post, remarked..."Oh, well that ended long ago...as soon as we got bored". When I tried to discuss reasonable options, he gave me troll demands about letting them take 20 worlds from Wolf or whatever it took to allow them to pass through to CJF. This went on since 4 days after the ceasefire was declared in week 1 of the beta (6 weeks!!!!).

If you had nothing to do with the rest of your members conduct, then I salute you for being an actual human being.

However, to be associated with people who would openly insult other to incite the sorts of remarks you posted above, then come in here posting one side of a conversation and playing innocent is beneath anyone with a conscious. That might be *YOUR* side of it...however, I wish I had screen caps of all the mad trash talking from your side. Blatantly and openly insulting.

I suggest you find a new group of friends if you do not want to be associated with those sorts of people. Because frankly, the reputation that MS is wracking up in CW among other places is the following:

1.) They abide by agreements until inconvenient.

2.) They distort things to manipulate public opinion and try to seem like the good guys.

3.) You cannot trust them beyond the time frame their short term memory lasts.

As much respect as I had for Antonius Rex before all this started when I knew him from some interactions in MCW, I would have thought that a unit run by him would never stoop to such levels of hatred and insults in matches as what we saw. After all this, I honestly have zero respect for anyone wearing those tags. You are now guilty by association. Sorry...thank your comrades.

1) As I stated that was not the complete chat log. I posted the screen shots that I had. Did players on my team throw insults your way? Most likely, and yes if not before that specific reply that have done it before and since and I'm sure they're are some players who will probably do it again. Let's face it, some people like to get a rise out of other people and you're an easy target. This was also the first match that we had against you that night so it wasn't in a match before that.

Let me be clear though, you stated that you never insulted the mercs. That's completely false. You made a specific claim and I refuted it with evidence from a specific, documented example.

2) CWI has done far more for Wolf than CWDG in game (and in my opinion out). Do numbers play a role in this? Absolutely, but it doesn't change the fact that they've tagged far more planets and that if you didn't have their support at times Wolf would have done nothing against GB.

3) Maybe you don't, but you certainly give that impression. Did people call you out when they killed you in those matches? Absolutely. Do you know why? Because you posted about showing us up on the battlefield and you couldn't back up your claims. I'm not trying to justify anything on my end. It happened, it was a petty thing to do (funny perhaps, but petty).

This doesn't change the fact that what you did was petty. I personally didn't insult you or call you out and I can't dictate what my teammates decide to do. You can however decide what you do and what you did was petty. "They called me names so it's okay for me to call them names" is a child's argument. You could hold yourself to a higher standard, but you choose not to. If you give it you can't complain about receiving it. (I'm not complaining about being called out, just using this to illustrate my point about you being petty.)

Also, what you said was not polite compared to what was said. I don't recall anything that was quite as straightforwardly insulting as what you said. You may have been trolled some, but you literally just said your response was quite polite because -MS- said such horrible things, yet again you have no proof to back up your role as victim.

I am not claiming you haven't been insulted or egged on (whether or not that was deserved is another matter entirely). What I am doing is refuting a claim that you made that was clearly false by using evidence. I would suggest that for the future you collect evidence to back up your claims, that would make your arguments much more believable.

You appear to have no problem blacklisting anyone in -MS-, a unit with >200 players, based on the actions of a few vocal members (Hybrid comes to mind among others). That is your choice and I understand that my association with -MS- will have its consequences.

Does it surprise you then that CWDG (and at one point most of Clan Wolf) have been blacklisted based on your actions?

If I'm guilt by association with -MS- so be it. I'm not mad, it doesn't bother me. You can be insulting, you can be petty if you want. Don't try to act as if you have the moral high ground though. Your conduct hasn't been better than those you accuse and you've been shown to be prone to making up stories that fit your purposes when it suits you.

I already stated that I wouldn't be commenting on the issue as a whole at this time so I won't address your other points.

My advice for you going forward:

1) Calm down, let cooler heads prevail.
2) Take a step back and look at how your actions and words might come across to someone on the other side.
3) Start documenting things so that you can back up future claims.
4) Keep a low profile for a while. At this point you've become a target that's easily rallied against. Do you really think that you're going to accomplish much by continuing to argue?
5) Keep hyperbole to a minimum. Making exaggerated statements doesn't help your credibility.

In closing, I don't harbor any animosity towards you Gyrok, but if you post things that are verifiable not true I will call you out on it.

[H I A S]

Lol, so much Dramaqueens in this forum.
Just play the Game!

[Xiphias]

HiasRGB, on 04 February 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

Lol, so much Dramaqueens in this forum.
Just play the Game!

But fighting on the forums is the game. How else do we win internet points? Besides, isn't the pen mightier than the sword or something?

Edit: Also, this is what long queue times in CW leads to. Got to have something to do while waiting for a match.

Edited by Xiphias, 04 February 2015 - 12:52 AM.

[Manny Rhyde]

Gyrok your one of the reasons why i left the clan. Your powerplays to gain control of the clan and force mercenaries to go to your wolf hub has ultimately damned us. Instead of cooperation, delta galaxy keeps wanting to compete with CWI for constant control of clan wolf. Now clan wolf can never have the kind of relationship we had with clan ghost bear and the mercs will never join clan wolf :/

[bobF]

Posting here because I can.

[TEOLAYKI]

whatever the case may be, you folks (both sides) have to let in game insults roll off your backs. Most of it just happens because the insulter wishes to get into the insultee's head to make them play worst.

As a life long athlete I have been through many a game with some pretty harsh stuff slung by both sides. I have never been one to enjoy slinging it myself. I have learned to just let it go, even the stuff directed toward me about my Mom. On the football field I would just store the insult in memory and play the game it is supposed to be played until the opportunity came about that I could unload on that person while doing my job and without affecting my team. More folks need to learn that.

I have been involved in CW matches vs MS where throughout the whole match insults came from their side the whole time. Most I consider just trash talk and funny (some very funny) but some were just uncalled for. No I don't have screencaps or transcripts, why I let it go and I don't care. I have no doubt that some Wolves sling insults too and I believe there is no place for the kind of harsh comments some let slip out of their mouths, but let it go

Coodoos to MS you are an excellent unit with many skilled warriors. (Now comes the hook). In my one win vs MS insults and trash was slung by MS the whole match until it was obvious that they were going to lose to us PUGs. At that time all posts stopped from the other side. I must admit I enjoyed that and will hold that dear to my heart because (now comes the praise) I do believe my next win vs MS will be a long time coming, especially since I almost always drop with a total PUG company.

The whole point is let it go folks or at least talk about it like adults if you are one and stop continuing with the insults.

[H I A S]

Xiphias, on 04 February 2015 - 12:51 AM, said:

But fighting on the forums is the game. How else do we win internet points? Besides, isn't the pen mightier than the sword or something?

Edit: Also, this is what long queue times in CW leads to. Got to have something to do while waiting for a match.

I watch Vids or read a book
In my opinion it is ok to fight CW. I personally drop where i can find a match. IS-Border? Clan-Border? It dosnt matter.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Xiphias, on 03 February 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

Gyrok,

It is convenient how you can claim that having TS logs would vindicate you when no one can disprove your point. Granted, I wasn't there so I can't weigh in on what happened, you could be completely correct and I won't claim to know.

What I do know is that you did start a thread threatening the mercs for attacking a Wolf planet. Among other things you did post something to the extent of "see you on the battlefield" or "prove it on the battlefield".

For my part I'd gotten pretty sick of reading about you claiming that Wolf was superior to -MS- and all the excuses that you've made for why it doesn't count when we've beaten Wolf. I was also tired of numerous claims about -MS- back stabbing and being dishonorable. To be clear, despite what some might have people believe, -MS- has never broken any of the agreements we made. We honor our contracts and agreements.

In the mentioned thread I commented to the extent of "Wolf's bark is worse than its bite and that they should prove it on the battlefield." (paraphrasing). I wasn't insulting, but I did call Wolf out. Sadly, since you deleted that thread I can't source anything so everyone will have to take my word for it. (Similar to TS logs if you delete a thread no one can disprove your claims about it).

I don't like to weight into an argument without having facts to back up my point. Wild claims are easy to find in these forums. I won't weigh in on the overall drama at the moment, but I will address some specific claims that you made.



Hmm, some bold claims. You NEVER, insulted anyone? Let's look and the evidence in exhibit one. These are some screen caps of the chat from a match you had with -MS- that night some time after that thread was started.



There may be some text that isn't included above, but nothing that I have purposely omitted. I simply don't have screen caps of all the in game text. I think this clearly contains some comments that are understood to be insults to any rational person.

Second, I believe my point in that thread was proven on the battlefield. We beat CWDG decisively twice that night. Words are cheap, I prefer action.

Finally, in the second match you managed to kill me twice, congratulations. You then felt inclined to call me out in game due to the fact that you killed me. I found that quite petty. I never challenged your skill as a player, I challenged your claims as a group and I proved my point. If you had an issue with me personally, perhaps you could have done the honorable clan thing and challenged me to a duel, something that would actually show true pilot skill. Bragging in chat that you landed the kill shot on me twice is childish and not very clan like.

tl;dr

1) Gyrok has insulted people and also lied in claiming he has done nothing to upset people.
2) Gyrok's claims have been refuted on the battlefield. CWI ends up having to bear the brunt.
3) Gyrok is petty and holds personal grudges.

Gyrok, if there is anything above that you would like to refute, please provide the evidence and action to back it up. If I am incorrect in anything I am happy to correct it. Otherwise, please don't waste my time with claims you cannot back up. For my part I've been nothing but civil and honest in this discussion, that's more than I can say for you.

Game. Set. Match. Also the thread you speak of was saved when someone got the Google cache. He made it available on the forums. I have been a member of this community since 02-11-11 & have done everything I can to educate other players of this game regarding Battletech/Mechwarrior lore, law, policies, procedures & protocol in NUMEROUS threads. I could link some for viewing but I am not here to toot my own horn. I think the people that know me or at the very least have seen what I post, will know what I have contributed to this forum for the few years I have been a member. So Gyrok calling me a "known troll" enrages me with the fire of a thousand suns. There is no civility anymore & the warriors that have been chomping at the bit to rip him to shreds, now have my permission to do so.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

We made it to the Steiner aera. I don t care what CW is doing with the Clanworlds on top. We go towards Terra.

[Gordon Gecko]

Cant we all just get along

[Gyrok]

manny082, on 04 February 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

Gyrok your one of the reasons why i left the clan. Your powerplays to gain control of the clan and force mercenaries to go to your wolf hub has ultimately damned us. Instead of cooperation, delta galaxy keeps wanting to compete with CWI for constant control of clan wolf. Now clan wolf can never have the kind of relationship we had with clan ghost bear and the mercs will never join clan wolf :/

Straight BS Manny.

I am not trying to manipulate anyone to come to the wolf hub, and I am not trying to power play for Wolf.

@Aresye: I have TS logging on in normal channels, but had never turned it on for private messages, a mistake I rectified. I should have done that sooner, no doubt, however, there is evidence out there for most every duel I have participated in, and this particular instance leaves me quite bitter because I literally am just standing up for what is right.

@xiphias: I said what my guys thought of your unit was much harsher than anything I put into text that evening. What your guys said was just as insulting as anything I said.

As for being childish about reasons for saying what I said back to you, well, coming from your unit, it just makes it seem like you want people to just take your BS and put up with it. However, I am an equality sort of guy, so the manner you present, is the manner you receive. Be polite and reasonable, and I am the most reasonable and polite guy in the world. Be a troll, and get trolled, talk smack and be prepared to take what you dish.

As for the advice, I consider my actions first, and thus it took 6 weeks before I finally had enough. Now, I am being railed against unfairly for a sequence of events that never took place in the manner described. If you think I am going to sit back and let that stand, then you clearly do not know me.

You seem like a reasonable person, and frankly it saddens me to know that you play with people that act so inexcusably toward others because it suits them. Then again, that is your prerogative the same as anything else. You know the irony? You guys troll me more than any of the Lords ever did, and I mean even harder than heim. At this point heim almost seems a model citizen in comparison to some of your players.

Makes me wonder why Araara and Twinky and some of the others left, maybe that answer presents itself more clearly than I realize.

Either way, if you are as reasonable as you seem, I wish you better luck than your compatriots will bring you.

[Gyrok]

Jaroth Corbett, on 04 February 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

Game. Set. Match. Also the thread you speak of was saved when someone got the Google cache. He made it available on the forums. I have been a member of this community since 02-11-11 & have done everything I can to educate other players of this game regarding Battletech/Mechwarrior lore, law, policies, procedures & protocol in NUMEROUS threads. I could link some for viewing but I am not here to toot my own horn. I think the people that know me or at the very least have seen what I post, will know what I have contributed to this forum for the few years I have been a member. So Gyrok calling me a "known troll" enrages me with the fire of a thousand suns. There is no civility anymore & the warriors that have been chomping at the bit to rip him to shreds, now have my permission to do so.

Jaroth, when it comes to lore, you know what you are talking about.

When it comes to the sequence of events being discussed, only sans and I know the truth of it, and he posted a mystery conversation that was never had between us.

The entirety of our conversation went like this, and I never heard a word the rest of the night until I logged:

Me: "Hey we are wanting to take New Caledonia that MS took from us before...are you good with that?"

Sans: "No problem from me, go ahead."

Me: "Ok, let your guys know"

If only there was a TS log to show that conversation...I could end the BS dispute.

Edited by Gyrok, 04 February 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[Noaceik]

This is what I see happening here. MS is controlling Ghost bear. thus, a merc is controlling loyalists. Now these Mercs are doing everything they can to bully other factions loyalists. In this case Wolf and Jade falcon. I am seeing a repeat of what happened to us southern houses. In that case Mercs pushed Davion to bully all there border factions. Then those mercs left, and Davion is falling apart. I suggest that Wolf and Falcon join together to teach Ghost bear humility. Take a lesson from the Marik, Liao alliance.
We had to join together to hold the Davions at bay. Until the Mercs got tired of the hard wins, and many loses. When Ghost bear mercs face this day after day they will flee. They did against us. Remember there main goal is easy wins for max profit. That is why these guys don't fight each other.

[Czarr]

congrats to the smoke jageurs on thier victory at tukayid and continued March toward terra, congrats to ghost bear and wolf at winning the drama queens of the year awards.

We can turn this into a murry show where clan wolf finds out they are not the father !

[Czarr]

Btw is anyone else confused at which post is RP and which one isn't?

[Gyrok]

Czarr, on 04 February 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

Btw is anyone else confused at which post is RP and which one isn't?

?

EDIT: None of my posts are RP if you are asking.

Edited by Gyrok, 04 February 2015 - 07:13 AM.

[Czarr]

Noaceik, on 04 February 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

This is what I see happening here. MS is controlling Ghost bear. thus, a merc is controlling loyalists. Now these Mercs are doing everything they can to bully other factions loyalists. In this case Wolf and Jade falcon. I am seeing a repeat of what happened to us southern houses. In that case Mercs pushed Davion to bully all there border factions. Then those mercs left, and Davion is falling apart. I suggest that Wolf and Falcon join together to teach Ghost bear humility. Take a lesson from the Marik, Liao alliance.
We had to join together to hold the Davions at bay. Until the Mercs got tired of the hard wins, and many loses. When Ghost bear mercs face this day after day they will flee. They did against us. Remember there main goal is easy wins for max profit. That is why these guys don't fight each other.

Good advice, I believe in karma and MS will doom ghost bear when these factions finally actually start talking to each other to form an anti-MS alliance , but gloating on the forums, trolling , drama, etc is doing nothing productive

[ciller]

Noaceik, on 04 February 2015 - 06:40 AM, said:

This is what I see happening here. MS is controlling Ghost bear. thus, a merc is controlling loyalists. Now these Mercs are doing everything they can to bully other factions loyalists. In this case Wolf and Jade falcon. I am seeing a repeat of what happened to us southern houses. In that case Mercs pushed Davion to bully all there border factions. Then those mercs left, and Davion is falling apart. I suggest that Wolf and Falcon join together to teach Ghost bear humility. Take a lesson from the Marik, Liao alliance.
We had to join together to hold the Davions at bay. Until the Mercs got tired of the hard wins, and many loses. When Ghost bear mercs face this day after day they will flee. They did against us. Remember there main goal is easy wins for max profit. That is why these guys don't fight each other.

I do not like the way you presume to know what our goals are. Our main goal isn't easy wins for max profit, it is to have as many fun matches as possible (trying to avoid 30 minute waits between matches) and put an -MS- tag on as many planets as we can. Profit is awesome but secondary, easy wins are no where on our agenda. As long as we are having good games against good people and those games come at a relatively frequent pace, we are happy. Stop pretending we are something we are not.

P.S. I grant you a very small minority of us are rude, obnoxious, and childish AND should be kicked out of MS *coughhybridblackcough*. Please don't judge us based on them, hopefully something can be done to fix that issue but we all have our Gyrok's, don't we?