717 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 February 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

"imo time wasters are griefers."

And this is your blind spot. They may be wasting your time, but not theirs. Maybe they are still learning what works and what doesn't. Maybe they want to see if luring you to their base is a valid strategy. Maybe they just want to see how many cored mechs they can take down with the one med laser they have left, as practice for endgames in CW that will matter.

Point being, its not your place to judge what they are doing. You are not a special little snowflake. The game doesn't revolve around you. If the guy is still moving, leave him alone and let him play.

Of course, I don't judge. We all just let support sort it out in the end anyway.

[990Dreams]

From the Code of Conduct Expanded:

Quote

Exploiting / Griefing / Non-Participation
Our definition of Exploiting / Griefing includes:

• Wilfully or repeatedly destroying Teammate or Lancemate 'Mechs.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly self-destructing one's 'Mech by Overheating or going Out-of-Bounds
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly spamming in-game chat.
  
• Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.

Quote

• Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.
  
• Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.

If you aren't fighting in skirmish you aren't participating in core game mechanics and you're exploiting an issue for your own gain (your KDR, for example).

Edited by DavidHurricane, 12 February 2015 - 07:16 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"No one says you have to run out and die. People are saying you can't go power down and hide"
Check again. Certain people here are saying that if you are last man standing, any tactic (stringing the enemy out, running to base to make a better last stand, etc) is delaying the outcome and is "griefing"

I fully support reporting someone who is just powering down to hide. Of course, I can't read his mind, so I would wait first to see if he shows a valid reason for doing so (like waiting for the Crab to saunter by so he can shoot it in the back).

[990Dreams]

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

Can't do that anymore. You must engage the enemy the way the impatient demand. And if you try to quit, they can report you too.

No, you can poke at them from a distance and guerrilla war them. But you can't just run around and hit them 3 times in 7 minutes. It has to be some form of actively engaging them.

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

Now you can deplete the player base even more at your convenience.

Look, it isn't a perma-ban, for one. It's perma-ban if you keep doing it. It's only depleting the player base if you get so offended that you leave under your own volition.

Also, you always have another option. It's called sucking it up and fighting. Sometimes you gotta deal with it. If you play well you'll always take one down with you though.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 12 February 2015 - 07:34 AM.

[Kjudoon]

DavidHurricane, on 12 February 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

No, you can poke at them from a distance and guerrilla war them. But you can't just run around and hit them 3 times in 7 minutes. It has to be some form of actively engaging them.

I see, so others get to dictate how I engage.

Nope. Didn't see that coming.

I just spent a match where the last 5 minutes was me and a Thunderbolt in a hide and seek tango because one of us was going to die real easy. Not a shot was fired for almost 4 minutes because we were trying to get advantage on each other. Now, I'd be reported because I was not playing stupid and charging. It was on assault.

Face it, this has always been about control and laziness.

[Dock Steward]

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

I see, so others get to dictate how I engage.

Nope. Didn't see that coming.

I just spent a match where the last 5 minutes was me and a Thunderbolt in a hide and seek tango because one of us was going to die real easy. Not a shot was fired for almost 4 minutes because we were trying to get advantage on each other. Now, I'd be reported because I was not playing stupid and charging. It was on assault.

Face it, this has always been about control and laziness.

Just curious: when that final stand-off happened, did anyone complain in chat?

[C E Dwyer]

DavidHurricane, on 12 February 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

From the Code of Conduct Expanded:




If you aren't fighting in skirmish you aren't participating in core game mechanics and you're exploiting an issue for your own gain (your KDR, for example).

If you haven't participated in core game mechanics is what this thread is all about.

Not participating (running off to a corner, and shutting down or disconnecting smack up against a wall) is not participating.


Having caused and received damage however, IS, participating.

What PGI haven't said, what level of damage would be with keeping inside the, SPIRIT, of the code of conduct rules.

So one can assume until PGI clarify, that a player that causes, about 50 damage and shuts down with yellow armour is given the same consideration as a player that shuts down having expended all ammunition and or has parts shot off them, and an exposed core.

What is very clear is that people that take the law into their own hands, by not reporting, and call out a Location ARE in breach of the code of conduct, and liable to at least a wrist slap, or temp, perm ban if reported for persistant offenses.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

There is no point in arguing about it. ToS clearly states in a situation like that running off and hiding to drain the clock still counts as non participation. It's in place to stop 11 people playing hunt the troll SDR hiding in a corner.

Really? You don't wanna get better at finding the little hidey holes that players can sneak off to? Doesn't sound like much of a hunter. If 11 other players are dead... They can sit back shut up and wait till the last player has played his/her hand. After all. Your game ended when you died. I for one like seeing if a team mate can evade detection or find the sneaky enemy. Your lack of patience is not that last player's problem unless you rat him out.

3 Years I have played, and in almost every drop I am done around the half way point. I can count on my two hands how many matches I have left before the game ended. No matter how it ended. I will argue against PGI EVER stopping a player from doing what THEY want as the last man standing. Its only 15 minutes.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 February 2015 - 07:47 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Dock Steward, on 12 February 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

Just curious: when that final stand-off happened, did anyone complain in chat?

Don't know. I turn chat off. Then again, it was Assault. They can always cap.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dock Steward, on 12 February 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

Just curious: when that final stand-off happened, did anyone complain in chat?

Actually how many complained while teh two players danced is the better question?

[C E Dwyer]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 February 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

"No one says you have to run out and die. People are saying you can't go power down and hide"
Check again. Certain people here are saying that if you are last man standing, any tactic (stringing the enemy out, running to base to make a better last stand, etc) is delaying the outcome and is "griefing"

I fully support reporting someone who is just powering down to hide. Of course, I can't read his mind, so I would wait first to see if he shows a valid reason for doing so (like waiting for the Crab to saunter by so he can shoot it in the back).

I'm fine with reporting to, but whats needed is a system where people repeatedly report others for playing to the code of conduct, but not how they want people to play are themselves moderated for wasting, PGI's time.

I would love to see the percentage of people that act like kids and grief report a person for no reason and how many are actually Valid, perhaps PGI could provide a statistic, as it wouldn't be name and shame would just show a simple pie chart or similar

[Ghogiel]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 February 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Really? You don't wanna get better at finding the little hidey holes that players can sneak off to? Doesn't sound like much of a hunter. If 11 other players are dead... They can sit back shut up and wait till the last player has played his/her hand. After all. Your game ended when you died. I for one like seeing if a team mate can evade detection or find the sneaky enemy. Your lack of patience is not that last player's problem unless you rat him out.

Go to training grounds if you want to explore the map. But yeah those dead players can sit back and shut up/DC whatever. However MY game has not ended along with 11 other players on my team and the shutdown SDR hiding is breaking the ToS and is going to get reported by the other team as much as his own.

Cathy, on 12 February 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

I'm fine with reporting to, but whats needed is a system where people repeatedly report others for playing to the code of conduct, but not how they want people to play are themselves moderated for wasting, PGI's time.

that exists already. They will take action against your account for griefing support.

[C E Dwyer]

DavidHurricane, on 12 February 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

No, you can poke at them from a distance and guerrilla war them. But you can't just run around and hit them 3 times in 7 minutes. It has to be some form of actively engaging them.



Look, it isn't a perma-ban, for one. It's perma-ban if you keep doing it. It's only depleting the player base if you get so offended that you leave under your own volition.

Also, you always have another option. It's called sucking it up and fighting. Sometimes you gotta deal with it. If you play well you'll always take one down with you though.

oh I don't see anywhere in the CoC that says its not allowed to run around for 7 minutes and poke then 3 times. In fact until PGI and not the players quantify what level counts, poking someone three times in 7 minutes is participating in the core game mechanic.

[990Dreams]

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

I see, so others get to dictate how I engage.

No, I'm saying you can engage however you want.

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

I just spent a match where the last 5 minutes was me and a Thunderbolt in a hide and seek tango because one of us was going to die real easy. Not a shot was fired for almost 4 minutes because we were trying to get advantage on each other. Now, I'd be reported because I was not playing stupid and charging. It was on assault.

Except if either of you had any semblance of long ranged weaponry you could just pop, shoot, and vanish into the mist. It isn't that hard, I've done it, I've killed 2-3 people before being killed my self doing it.

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Face it, this has always been about control and laziness.

Control, I can see that some people would be about that. Laziness, maybe. On a small map it may be laziness. On Alpine Peaks it sure as crap isn't laziness. If there's under 5 minutes you probably don't have time to search even maps like Forest Colony enough.

Cathy, on 12 February 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

So one can assume until PGI clarify, that a player that causes, about 50 damage and shuts down with yellow armour is given the same consideration as a player that shuts down having expended all ammunition and or has parts shot off them, and an exposed core.

Everything stated up till here and after here is fine and dandy, and you're still correct. Now a simple solution to the problem you presented:

Quote

• The player must HOLD this key down for [10] seconds in order to eject. The amount of time will be determined based on "denying the enemy a kill" mentality which would be rather poor to have happen all the time.

(From CW Phase 2 Update)

Clearly there is something wrong with denying an enemy a kill, otherwise they wouldn't have implemented the eject timer. So if you expended all your ammo and are nearly cored, just go and die until the rules are clarified. It makes life easier for all of us.

Cathy, on 12 February 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

oh I don't see anywhere in the CoC that says its not allowed to run around for 7 minutes and poke then 3 times. In fact until PGI and not the players quantify what level counts, poking someone three times in 7 minutes is participating in the core game mechanic.

Also true.

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Don't know. I turn chat off. Then again, it was Assault. They can always cap.

This is one reason why I play assault more often now. There's another option if someone runs off and hides.

Another interesting thing I thought of when I read your post would be something like an Ender's Game mode. Once you kill x number of players (let's say, enough to prevent them from getting YOUR objective), if you have y players left you can capture the objective. The remaining players can try and stop you. If both teams can't capture the objective it's a draw (or you fight to the end, but that brings us around to this problem of people running and hiding).

Edited by DavidHurricane, 12 February 2015 - 07:57 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 February 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Actually how many complained while teh two players danced is the better question?

It turned into an awesome match that I lost BTW. I noticed at least 4 people quit when we started to dance. Missed quite the ending. The video is pitching fits on conversion right now for some reason and I can't get a functional file to play. Then again 4 gigs is probably a bit large.

IF I can get it to load, I will be putting it up.

Edited by Kjudoon, 12 February 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Again David, you are demanding say over how someone plays their game.

[C E Dwyer]

Hmm thinking more on that so if this person, who may or may not be a factual person shot three times in seven minutes that means the other eleven people, were steam rolled in eight minutes and are now whining like spoiled children at the only member of their team that's playing with any intelligence or skill.

Just Hmmm..

[Ghogiel]

Cathy, on 12 February 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

Hmm thinking more on that so if this person, who may or may not be a factual person shot three times in seven minutes that means the other eleven people, were steam rolled in eight minutes and are now whining like spoiled children at the only member of their team that's playing with any intelligence or skill.

Just Hmmm..

>implying that poking 3 times in 7 mins while his whole time gets killed is intelligent or skillful

not saying that rest of the team had any either

Edited by Ghogiel, 12 February 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Aaaaaaannnnnd that's a major point repeatedly made, Cathy.

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

>implying that poking 3 times in 7 mins while his whole time gets killed is intelligent or skillful

not saying that rest of the team had any either

Okay, so how do you know the person just doesn't suck or something else is going on with them? Are we wanting a rule against sucking?

And I thought this game had a steep enough learning cliff as is.

Edited by Kjudoon, 12 February 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Kjudoon, on 12 February 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Aaaaaaannnnnd that's a major point repeatedly made, Cathy.


Okay, so how do you know the person just doesn't suck or something else is going on with them? Are we wanting a rule against sucking?

And I thought this game had a steep enough learning cliff as is.

We don't. It's a red herring in regards to topic or griefing, but saying they were demonstrating intelligence or skill in MWO is going to be hard to argue. They at least sucked in that match if that's all they did in 7mins regardless of the reasons.