47 replies to this topic

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Hey all,

I've done my best to compile everyone's feedback about the clan/merc issue we've all seen and will be sending it to him soon to send to the devs. The message is below; please let me know now if you have any major heart break or want something added as I would like to get this out in the next few hours.

I'm sorry if I missed anyone's ideas or concerns but I didn't want to overwhelm them. Thanks for everyone's feedback/discussions. It was fun.



Hey John,

I've spent a lot of time sifting through our discussion threads to do my best to summarize everyone's concerns with the current Merc/Clan system. The summary is as follows; thanks so much for agreeing to pass it to the devs. Again, we understand they may not be able to do everything or they may have their own ideas but maybe this will help a bit.


Merc Concern/Solutions:

1) Mercs want to have the option to use clan/IS technology but don't like the current pledge/contract system as it limits their versatility. They would much prefer a contract solution where they can be truly "hired" and move where they are actually needed as opposed to being just another unit with a 1 week contract.


2) Mercs don't like being limited in their attack/defense options on a nightly basis. This goes somewhat back to point one in that merc units want to be able to have lots of fights and not be controlled in where they attack. Many people seem to think that having a merc contract system that payed based upon how much a planet was being overwhelmed would help. Basically if FRR is being ganged upon on, merc units would get payed to jump in and equalize the numbers.


3) Mercs really really hate turret drops. They don't like to stir up trouble persay but they are there to make money and regardless of any ceasefire will attack simply so they can make some cbills.


4) Mercs like being able to fight elite units for the challenge and want a contract system that allows this. This goes back to the prior points.


Clan Concern/Solutions:

1) Clans don't like that Merc units can join a friendly clan and then attack them without them being able to retaliate. A lot of times rival clans will cut deals not to attack each other but a joined merc unit will not respect the ceasefire simply because they are out after cbills. It would be nice if merc units would be limited in an upgrade merc contract to attack planets only when the faction they join is attacking it themselves.


2) Elite merc units may randomly end up in the same area after a contract break period then inadvertently maul a single clan. This makes the game unenjoyable for newer players and it would be appreciated if a new contract system would be put in place that would encourage merc diversity.


Universal Concern/Solutions:

1) Planets essentially have no "value". Merc units primarily view them simply as money farms while some clanners actually want to hold them from an RP perspective. Granted many clan units view them as nothing either but it would still be nice if they actually meant something.

2) There is no system for bandit/pirate players

3) The "planet exchange" deals are lame and but in the absence of any real batchall system are used instead. A system that encouraged clans to attack each other occasionally would be nice.

4) The selection algorithm is terrible and occasionally forces friendly factions to fight each other night after night due to anything better to do.

Edited by Blueduck, 01 February 2015 - 05:02 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

BD,

Appreciate you working on this but I have to say it seems very much like its missing alot.

Maybe along with these cliff notes you include a link to the thread(s) this feedback springs from so he can read some more of specifics, perspectives etc. Still, overall, great effort here, definitely appreciated.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Lukoi Banacek, on 01 February 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

BD,

Appreciate you working on this but I have to say it seems very much like its missing alot.

Maybe along with these cliff notes you include a link to the thread(s) this feedback springs from so he can read some more of specifics, perspectives etc. Still, overall, great effort here, definitely appreciated.

Yeah, I'm sorry about the missing stuff. I did try to review and summarize everything. I read a couple of your specific concerns and ideas actually xD

If you see anything major I left out please let me know and we'll get it in there.

[Davers]

I am not sure that some of the concerns are actually in line with PGI's (apparent) plans. For example, complaining that mercs are attacking your 'ally', when it was PGI that set that attack corridor in the first place.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Davers, on 01 February 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

I am not sure that some of the concerns are actually in line with PGI's (apparent) plans. For example, complaining that mercs are attacking your 'ally', when it was PGI that set that attack corridor in the first place.

Very true sir, but that was a lot of the concerns being raised on the clan side so I wanted to at least try to capture the feedback.

[CyclonerM]

Davers, on 01 February 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

I am not sure that some of the concerns are actually in line with PGI's (apparent) plans. For example, complaining that mercs are attacking your 'ally', when it was PGI that set that attack corridor in the first place.

Again, players can decide wheter a faction is allied or not with yours, not PGI...

[Davers]

CyclonerM, on 02 February 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Again, players can decide wheter a faction is allied or not with yours, not PGI...

No, players decide if other units are allied with you, not factions.

[CyclonerM]

Davers, on 02 February 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

No, players decide if other units are allied with you, not factions.

Again, N*Units about = faction where N is majority of faction's units

Edited by CyclonerM, 02 February 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

I'd just like to point something out about what was stated above.

Blueduck, on 01 February 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Merc Concern/Solutions:

1) Mercs want to have the option to use clan/IS technology but don't like the current pledge/contract system as it limits their versatility. They would much prefer a contract solution where they can be truly "hired" and move where they are actually needed as opposed to being just another unit with a 1 week contract.


2) Mercs don't like being limited in their attack/defense options on a nightly basis. This goes somewhat back to point one in that merc units want to be able to have lots of fights and not be controlled in where they attack. Many people seem to think that having a merc contract system that payed based upon how much a planet was being overwhelmed would help. Basically if FRR is being ganged upon on, merc units would get payed to jump in and equalize the numbers.


3) Mercs really really hate turret drops. They don't like to stir up trouble persay but they are there to make money and regardless of any ceasefire will attack simply so they can make some cbills.


4) Mercs like being able to fight elite units for the challenge and want a contract system that allows this. This goes back to the prior points.


Clan Concern/Solutions:

1) Clans don't like that Merc units can join a friendly clan and then attack them without them being able to retaliate. A lot of times rival clans will cut deals not to attack each other but a joined merc unit will not respect the ceasefire simply because they are out after cbills. It would be nice if merc units would be limited in an upgrade merc contract to attack planets only when the faction they join is attacking it themselves.


2) Elite merc units may randomly end up in the same area after a contract break period then inadvertently maul a single clan. This makes the game unenjoyable for newer players and it would be appreciated if a new contract system would be put in place that would encourage merc diversity.


Universal Concern/Solutions:

1) Planets essentially have no "value". Merc units primarily view them simply as money farms while some clanners actually want to hold them from an RP perspective. Granted many clan units view them as nothing either but it would still be nice if they actually meant something.

2) There is no system for bandit/pirate players

3) The "planet exchange" deals are lame and but in the absence of any real batchall system are used instead. A system that encouraged clans to attack each other occasionally would be nice.

4) The selection algorithm is terrible and occasionally forces friendly factions to fight each other night after night due to anything better to do.

All of the above concerns can actually be solved with one simple action. Keep reading if you want detailed analysis, or head to the bottom if you just want the clean-cut answer. First, lets analyze merc issues.

Merc Issues:

• Mercs want mixed access to technology frequently.
  
• Mercs want to be able to even the odds between factions to eliminate ghost drops.
  
• Mercs hate ghost drops.
  
• Mercs want a challenge.

Analyzing these points, it becomes clear what's going on. Well, the ghost drops are caused by an imbalance of players on one side. Due to the sheer size of -MS- this is completely unavoidable, as whichever faction they join will ALWAYS have a surplus of pilots. This also affects their search in looking for a challenge, as a lot of talent has been pooled into -MS-, and a unit can't fight itself. The technology issue is unavoidable, as the group must come to a majority decision, or follow the orders/whims of their commanders and live with it. All of these issues are fixed with the solution at the very bottom of this post, but I'm gonna cover next why Clans have so many issues with mercs. And by 'mercs' I mean -MS-.

Clan Issues:

• Clans don't like the logistical chaos of -MS- joining an adjacent Clan and disregarding ceasefires & trials.
  
• Clans don't like the power imbalance caused by -MS- joining adjacent Clan and outnumbering them 2 to 1.

The main concern here is that the Clans cannot control what -MS- does. This isn't necessarily to say that -MS- is at fault, they are more than entitled to make their own decisions for the good of their unit. Once again, the root of the issue is the sudden power imbalance. Were there no player imbalance, the disregard of RP could be managed and countered to some degree. The same goes for IS factions I'll warrant, as I'm well aware of ceasefires going on simply by looking at the map. Once again, solution is at the bottom, but I've gotta cover Universal issues last.

Universal Issues:

• Planets have alternate values. For some they = cash, for others they = Faction territory.
  
• No way to be pirates.
  
• Planet exchanges are super lame and we need an alternate.
  
• Path algorithm sucks.

The first point here is unavoidable, as this depends on how a player values the game. All other points are valid concerns and may be addressed in future updates, but they ultimately come back again to force imbalance. The urge to be a pirate, planet exchanges, and the dissatisfaction over path algorithms stems from the want for more attack corridors, which stems from the fact that all available attack corridors in every faction are full and -MS- doesn't want to drop against turrets, which stems from... wait for it... player imbalance.

I'm sure you noticed that player imbalance was the root of almost every single issue above (well, I sure hope so, I freaking underlined it!). Common sense dictates that if you adjust the root issue, all branches of the root issue will also adjust.

How do you fix an imbalance? Depends on the type. If there's a weapons imbalance, you can adjust the weapon. If there's a mech imbalance, adjust perks for other mechs to up their appeal. And if there's a player imbalance, well, just throw some of those players to the other side. Balanced.

I don't think what I'm gonna state next will come as a shock to anyone, but there is one singular change we can make to the game that will fix all our problems. The great thing about it is we don't have to wait for a patch from PGI, we can do it ourselves! Heck, these issues are community warfare based, maybe PGI has been waiting for the 'community' to live & learn & realize this solution on its own, because hmmm... programming costs money, and so if a problem can be solved without money, lets do it that way!



The Solution: -MS- NEEDS TO DISBAND



This solution may not be in the best interests of -MS-, but it is in the best interests of the players.

The players want drops. They want C-Bills. They want mixed tech. They want to fight with skilled players against other skilled players.

When all the players that want this join one group, they can't do this.

These players could still attain these goals by splitting into -MS- splinter groups. Most refuse to, probably because nobody has taken the first plunge. But I think this is the best and only option available to -MS- pilots at this time.

You guys have a unique opportunity here. -MS- includes an expansive player base of skilled pilots. Pick & choose active players in same timezone from that pool, and you'll have your own -MS- sub-unit. I would recommend limiting yourselves to no more than 24 players (two companies) in the future, as it's much more difficult to cause an imbalance with those numbers. After you guys split, you can still macro-manage multiple units towards the same objective, but this also gives the option for excess 'auxiliary' units to split up to help balance the game, or just make a few C-bills fighting for whoever for a week.

This solution requires zero effort from PGI. This will save them money, so if you guys are able to take this initiative yourselves I'm sure they'd appreciate it. I don't think it's in the best interests of PGI to support all the needs & wants of a few elitist units. It will take time x money to TRY and address all the branch issues you've discussed, and they might not even be successful. They might just end up pissing more people off. The simplest solution is often the best. I guarantee if you solve this root issue by splitting up, everyone will gain something from it. Is there really ANY benefit to stockpiling players until there's not enough enemies to fight against?

Your thoughts?

EDIT:

I suggest the same solution for ANY unit that has concerns similar to the original post.

Edited by Repasy, 02 February 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[Alexander Steel]

CyclonerM, on 02 February 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

Again, N*Units about = faction where N is majority of faction's units

Not really as even if 90% of the Faction units decided to make a peace treaty they have 0 ability to stop the other 10% from attacking the people they made the deal with.

[Noesis]

Wolf logic, it kind of doesn't make sense, some would say it is a "bit of a howler"

This does not represent my views, and most of the points discussed have had numerous input prior to this initiative anyhow.

I will no longer be contributing to "Blueduck" initiatives as their original stated aims to fully represent the issues concerned are not achieved in the process.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Noesis, on 02 February 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

Wolf logic, it kind of doesn't make sense, some would say it is a "bit of a howler"

This does not represent my views, and most of the points discussed have had numerous input prior to this initiative anyhow.

I will no longer be contributing to "Blueduck" initiatives as their original stated aims to fully represent the issues concerned are not achieved in the process.

Sorry if you're not happy. I posted this last night and asked for comments before.

I included a comment about the bandit system specifically thinking of you but didn't want to overwhelm the devs with a whole rogue system which was beyond the scope of the original thread.

Sorry if you're unhappy, I did try and I never claimed it would be perfect.

If you'd like I'd be happy to support you on a separate initiative related to the bandit caste that you are probably far more capable of explaining than myself.

[Noesis]

Blueduck, on 02 February 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

Sorry if you're not happy. I posted this last night and asked for comments before.

I included a comment about the bandit system specifically thinking of you but didn't want to overwhelm the devs with a whole rogue system which was beyond the scope of the original thread.

Sorry if you're unhappy, I did try and I never claimed it would be perfect.

If you'd like I'd be happy to support you on a separate initiative related to the bandit caste that you are probably far more capable of explaining than myself.

I will continue to use the official suggestions forum as a way in representing players views with requests to feature changes or commenting in threads as needs. This as per the equal right of any player in being able to represent views in relation to MWO gaming features.

This has already been done as I said previously so I'm not concerned that you may not have represented rather a limited viewpoint that does not achieve its originial intentions of representing players views. As such I cannot trust the Blueduck initiative process and if anything do not understand that there should be any special way in which players can contribute to the devs that then missrepresents that offered opinion at the same time.

You can comment where you like, but I will simply continue to use the recognised channels.

It will be interesting to see however if PGI agree with the idea of a limited cross section of the player population should use moderators to specifically recognise their contributions any differently to others and also when recognising that there are official forums for these very purposes. It suggests that either moderators perhaps do not understand their own policy or processes well enough to support them or that indeed special consideration has been afforded to this process.

I believe it changes nothing in terms of what PGI know about the issues however but might be simply a way to placate "Wolf whining". But even this is then generating a problem if Wolf players then think or perceive they then have some special attention to their concerns over other players.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Best of luck to you then

[Ax2Grind]

Repasy, on 02 February 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

I'd just like to point something out about what was stated above.



All of the above concerns can actually be solved with one simple action. Keep reading if you want detailed analysis, or head to the bottom if you just want the clean-cut answer. First, lets analyze merc issues.

Merc Issues:

• Mercs want mixed access to technology frequently.
  
• Mercs want to be able to even the odds between factions to eliminate ghost drops.
  
• Mercs hate ghost drops.
  
• Mercs want a challenge.

Analyzing these points, it becomes clear what's going on. Well, the ghost drops are caused by an imbalance of players on one side. Due to the sheer size of -MS- this is completely unavoidable, as whichever faction they join will ALWAYS have a surplus of pilots. This also affects their search in looking for a challenge, as a lot of talent has been pooled into -MS-, and a unit can't fight itself. The technology issue is unavoidable, as the group must come to a majority decision, or follow the orders/whims of their commanders and live with it. All of these issues are fixed with the solution at the very bottom of this post, but I'm gonna cover next why Clans have so many issues with mercs. And by 'mercs' I mean -MS-.

Clan Issues:

• Clans don't like the logistical chaos of -MS- joining an adjacent Clan and disregarding ceasefires & trials.
  
• Clans don't like the power imbalance caused by -MS- joining adjacent Clan and outnumbering them 2 to 1.

The main concern here is that the Clans cannot control what -MS- does. This isn't necessarily to say that -MS- is at fault, they are more than entitled to make their own decisions for the good of their unit. Once again, the root of the issue is the sudden power imbalance. Were there no player imbalance, the disregard of RP could be managed and countered to some degree. The same goes for IS factions I'll warrant, as I'm well aware of ceasefires going on simply by looking at the map. Once again, solution is at the bottom, but I've gotta cover Universal issues last.

Universal Issues:

• Planets have alternate values. For some they = cash, for others they = Faction territory.
  
• No way to be pirates.
  
• Planet exchanges are super lame and we need an alternate.
  
• Path algorithm sucks.

The first point here is unavoidable, as this depends on how a player values the game. All other points are valid concerns and may be addressed in future updates, but they ultimately come back again to force imbalance. The urge to be a pirate, planet exchanges, and the dissatisfaction over path algorithms stems from the want for more attack corridors, which stems from the fact that all available attack corridors in every faction are full and -MS- doesn't want to drop against turrets, which stems from... wait for it... player imbalance.

I'm sure you noticed that player imbalance was the root of almost every single issue above (well, I sure hope so, I freaking underlined it!). Common sense dictates that if you adjust the root issue, all branches of the root issue will also adjust.

How do you fix an imbalance? Depends on the type. If there's a weapons imbalance, you can adjust the weapon. If there's a mech imbalance, adjust perks for other mechs to up their appeal. And if there's a player imbalance, well, just throw some of those players to the other side. Balanced.

I don't think what I'm gonna state next will come as a shock to anyone, but there is one singular change we can make to the game that will fix all our problems. The great thing about it is we don't have to wait for a patch from PGI, we can do it ourselves! Heck, these issues are community warfare based, maybe PGI has been waiting for the 'community' to live & learn & realize this solution on its own, because hmmm... programming costs money, and so if a problem can be solved without money, lets do it that way!



The Solution: -MS- NEEDS TO DISBAND



This solution may not be in the best interests of -MS-, but it is in the best interests of the players.

The players want drops. They want C-Bills. They want mixed tech. They want to fight with skilled players against other skilled players.

When all the players that want this join one group, they can't do this.

These players could still attain these goals by splitting into -MS- splinter groups. Most refuse to, probably because nobody has taken the first plunge. But I think this is the best and only option available to -MS- pilots at this time.

You guys have a unique opportunity here. -MS- includes an expansive player base of skilled pilots. Pick & choose active players in same timezone from that pool, and you'll have your own -MS- sub-unit. I would recommend limiting yourselves to no more than 24 players (two companies) in the future, as it's much more difficult to cause an imbalance with those numbers. After you guys split, you can still macro-manage multiple units towards the same objective, but this also gives the option for excess 'auxiliary' units to split up to help balance the game, or just make a few C-bills fighting for whoever for a week.

This solution requires zero effort from PGI. This will save them money, so if you guys are able to take this initiative yourselves I'm sure they'd appreciate it. I don't think it's in the best interests of PGI to support all the needs & wants of a few elitist units. It will take time x money to TRY and address all the branch issues you've discussed, and they might not even be successful. They might just end up pissing more people off. The simplest solution is often the best. I guarantee if you solve this root issue by splitting up, everyone will gain something from it. Is there really ANY benefit to stockpiling players until there's not enough enemies to fight against?

Your thoughts?

EDIT:

I suggest the same solution for ANY unit that has concerns similar to the original post.

Since the basis of your idea is not supported by any real data, and since my experience is a far cry from what you outline, I would say that your idea is a wash. There are a number of units with far more active members than MS. And while you keep pretending that only "Mercs" choose to not support another players desire for RP, this is also not based in reality. Many "loyalists" have fought and will continue to fight using attack lanes that others in their faction want to see closed with a NAP.

I will however take it as a compliment that you think MS is so powerful that we have somehow created a massive player imbalance. We do drink rivers dry. But that's just because we are crazy thirsty.

[hybrid black]

Repasy, on 02 February 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

I'd just like to point something out about what was stated above.



All of the above concerns can actually be solved with one simple action. Keep reading if you want detailed analysis, or head to the bottom if you just want the clean-cut answer. First, lets analyze merc issues.

Merc Issues:

• Mercs want mixed access to technology frequently.
  
• Mercs want to be able to even the odds between factions to eliminate ghost drops.
  
• Mercs hate ghost drops.
  
• Mercs want a challenge.

Analyzing these points, it becomes clear what's going on. Well, the ghost drops are caused by an imbalance of players on one side. Due to the sheer size of -MS- this is completely unavoidable, as whichever faction they join will ALWAYS have a surplus of pilots. This also affects their search in looking for a challenge, as a lot of talent has been pooled into -MS-, and a unit can't fight itself. The technology issue is unavoidable, as the group must come to a majority decision, or follow the orders/whims of their commanders and live with it. All of these issues are fixed with the solution at the very bottom of this post, but I'm gonna cover next why Clans have so many issues with mercs. And by 'mercs' I mean -MS-.

Clan Issues:

• Clans don't like the logistical chaos of -MS- joining an adjacent Clan and disregarding ceasefires & trials.
  
• Clans don't like the power imbalance caused by -MS- joining adjacent Clan and outnumbering them 2 to 1.

The main concern here is that the Clans cannot control what -MS- does. This isn't necessarily to say that -MS- is at fault, they are more than entitled to make their own decisions for the good of their unit. Once again, the root of the issue is the sudden power imbalance. Were there no player imbalance, the disregard of RP could be managed and countered to some degree. The same goes for IS factions I'll warrant, as I'm well aware of ceasefires going on simply by looking at the map. Once again, solution is at the bottom, but I've gotta cover Universal issues last.

Universal Issues:

• Planets have alternate values. For some they = cash, for others they = Faction territory.
  
• No way to be pirates.
  
• Planet exchanges are super lame and we need an alternate.
  
• Path algorithm sucks.

The first point here is unavoidable, as this depends on how a player values the game. All other points are valid concerns and may be addressed in future updates, but they ultimately come back again to force imbalance. The urge to be a pirate, planet exchanges, and the dissatisfaction over path algorithms stems from the want for more attack corridors, which stems from the fact that all available attack corridors in every faction are full and -MS- doesn't want to drop against turrets, which stems from... wait for it... player imbalance.

I'm sure you noticed that player imbalance was the root of almost every single issue above (well, I sure hope so, I freaking underlined it!). Common sense dictates that if you adjust the root issue, all branches of the root issue will also adjust.

How do you fix an imbalance? Depends on the type. If there's a weapons imbalance, you can adjust the weapon. If there's a mech imbalance, adjust perks for other mechs to up their appeal. And if there's a player imbalance, well, just throw some of those players to the other side. Balanced.

I don't think what I'm gonna state next will come as a shock to anyone, but there is one singular change we can make to the game that will fix all our problems. The great thing about it is we don't have to wait for a patch from PGI, we can do it ourselves! Heck, these issues are community warfare based, maybe PGI has been waiting for the 'community' to live & learn & realize this solution on its own, because hmmm... programming costs money, and so if a problem can be solved without money, lets do it that way!



The Solution: -MS- NEEDS TO DISBAND



This solution may not be in the best interests of -MS-, but it is in the best interests of the players.

The players want drops. They want C-Bills. They want mixed tech. They want to fight with skilled players against other skilled players.

When all the players that want this join one group, they can't do this.

These players could still attain these goals by splitting into -MS- splinter groups. Most refuse to, probably because nobody has taken the first plunge. But I think this is the best and only option available to -MS- pilots at this time.

You guys have a unique opportunity here. -MS- includes an expansive player base of skilled pilots. Pick & choose active players in same timezone from that pool, and you'll have your own -MS- sub-unit. I would recommend limiting yourselves to no more than 24 players (two companies) in the future, as it's much more difficult to cause an imbalance with those numbers. After you guys split, you can still macro-manage multiple units towards the same objective, but this also gives the option for excess 'auxiliary' units to split up to help balance the game, or just make a few C-bills fighting for whoever for a week.

This solution requires zero effort from PGI. This will save them money, so if you guys are able to take this initiative yourselves I'm sure they'd appreciate it. I don't think it's in the best interests of PGI to support all the needs & wants of a few elitist units. It will take time x money to TRY and address all the branch issues you've discussed, and they might not even be successful. They might just end up pissing more people off. The simplest solution is often the best. I guarantee if you solve this root issue by splitting up, everyone will gain something from it. Is there really ANY benefit to stockpiling players until there's not enough enemies to fight against?

Your thoughts?

EDIT:

I suggest the same solution for ANY unit that has concerns similar to the original post.

sorry there are bigger units then MS were just better players.

Are you jealous?
Are you sick of dropping alone??
or is your unit looking for more people to drop with?
Then contact your local MercStar officer today!!!

But in all seriousness this wont happen in fact we have two new units joining this weekend, MercStar will not break up and continue to play CW the way we want to. were not going to stop playing a game the way we want to because some people have a problem with us, if PGI does not like what MercStar is doing they will limit us in game someway

"Analyzing these points, it becomes clear what's going on. Well, the ghost drops are caused by an imbalance of players on one side. Due to the sheer size of -MS- this is completely unavoidable, as whichever faction they join will ALWAYS have a surplus of pilots. This also affects their search in looking for a challenge, as a lot of talent has been pooled into -MS-, and a unit can't fight itself. The technology issue is unavoidable, as the group must come to a majority decision, or follow the orders/whims of their commanders and live with it. All of these issues are fixed with the solution at the very bottom of this post, but I'm gonna cover next why Clans have so many issues with mercs. And by 'mercs' I mean -MS-."

MercStar also has no problems finding matches we insta que all night long at the moment and that's all we care about

Edited by hybrid black, 02 February 2015 - 06:54 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Ax2Grind, on 02 February 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Since the basis of your idea is not supported by any real data, and since my experience is a far cry from what you outline, I would say that your idea is a wash. There are a number of units with far more active members than MS. And while you keep pretending that only "Mercs" choose to not support another players desire for RP, this is also not based in reality. Many "loyalists" have fought and will continue to fight using attack lanes that others in their faction want to see closed with a NAP.

I will however take it as a compliment that you think MS is so powerful that we have somehow created a massive player imbalance. We do drink rivers dry. But that's just because we are crazy thirsty.

I never suggested that I had data, I am simply responding to the issues that Blueduck summarized and giving my opinion. I also want to mention that I suggest the same for ANY unit that is having problems finding sufficient drops. I addressed your unit specifically because if I'm not mistaken, your unit has masterminded the effort for Ghost Bear to open up more attack corridors. Based on what I read, you guys did this to get your players drops. Based on what I've seen in game, your efforts have STOLEN attack corridors from other clans, which disrupts the enjoyment of those other clans (it has nothing to do with NAP anymore, more to do with stealing corridors). Based on the number of worlds that now have -MS- emblazoned on them (a whopping 22 in CGB alone if ya didn't notice!), I think I'm correct in assuming you have a looot of players, as only the unit with the largest contribution gets credit for the capture. I wonder how many of those worlds were won with ghost drops, hmmmm...

I suggested the following fix for your PLAYERS because according to Blueduck's notes, Mercs feel limited. I was merely trying to shed light on the fact that the players are limiting themselves. If they want more action / more of a challenge, why not split up and fight eachother? From a gameplay perspective it makes sense. From a community perspective, nobody will hate you for doing it. And this way PGI doesn't have to spend extra work hours accommodating the agendas of a few power-hungry elitist commanders *cough*talkinboutu*cough* and can get back to making the game they envision.

Lastly I was not 'pretending' that only mercs choose not to support RP. I don't think I said that at all. If you're referring to random pugs not supporting RP, well those random pugs probably don't surf the forums so there's nothing-a-do about that. If you're referring to other units, I'm aware of faction-loyal units that have attacked us after being provoked by other merc units *cough*talkinboutuagain*cough*.

This is COMMUNITY warfare, not <insert name of large unit> warfare.

My ideas are supported by information collected from other threads, and by my experiences in game. And for the record, my ideas are NOT a wash. Because I'm a part of the COMMUNITY.

Also, woooooowwwww, thx for actually not really contributing ANYTHING to this conversation other than flaming the opinions of one guy. ***hole.

hybrid black, on 02 February 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

sorry there are bigger units then MS were just better players.

Are you jealous?
Are you sick of dropping alone??
or is your unit looking for more people to drop with?
Then contact your local MercStar officer today!!!

Read what I said 2 teh other guy... ***hole.

Edited by Repasy, 02 February 2015 - 06:50 PM.

[hybrid black]

Repasy, on 02 February 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

I never suggested that I had data, I am simply responding to the issues that Blueduck summarized and giving my opinion. I also want to mention that I suggest the same for ANY unit that is having problems finding sufficient drops. I addressed your unit specifically because if I'm not mistaken, your unit has masterminded the effort for Ghost Bear to open up more attack corridors. Based on what I read, you guys did this to get your players drops. Based on what I've seen in game, your efforts have STOLEN attack corridors from other clans, which disrupts the enjoyment of those other clans (it has nothing to do with NAP anymore, more to do with stealing corridors). Based on the number of worlds that now have -MS- emblazoned on them (a whopping 22 in CGB alone if ya didn't notice!), I think I'm correct in assuming you have a looot of players, as only the unit with the largest contribution gets credit for the capture. I wonder how many of those worlds were won with ghost drops, hmmmm...

I suggested the following fix for your PLAYERS because according to Blueduck's notes, Mercs feel limited. I was merely trying to shed light on the fact that the players are limiting themselves. If they want more action / more of a challenge, why not split up and fight eachother? From a gameplay perspective it makes sense. From a community perspective, nobody will hate you for doing it. And this way PGI doesn't have to spend extra work hours accommodating the agendas of a few power-hungry elitist commanders *cough*talkinboutu*cough* and can get back to making the game they envision.

Lastly I was not 'pretending' that only mercs choose not to support RP. I don't think I said that at all. If you're referring to random pugs not supporting RP, well those random pugs probably don't surf the forums so there's nothing-a-do about that. If you're referring to other units, I'm aware of faction-loyal units that have attacked us after being provoked by other merc units *cough*talkinboutuagain*cough*.

This is COMMUNITY warfare, not <insert name of large unit> warfare.

My ideas are supported by information collected from other threads, and by my experiences in game. And for the record, my ideas are NOT a wash. Because I'm a part of the COMMUNITY.

Also, woooooowwwww, thx for actually not really contributing ANYTHING to this conversation other than flaming the opinions of one guy. ***hole.



Read what I said 2 teh other guy... ***hole.

im an [Redacted] that's funny your the one attacking my unit for doing better then you, sorry but MercStar will keep growing and doing what we want

we don't turret drop in fact we switch planets when we get them, that is why we wanted more lanes, you need to win games to get your name on the planet, and we win games faster with 48 kills then waiting for a turret drop.

[Redacted] people should stay out of sight when they don't know what they are talking about.

Edited by hybrid black, 02 February 2015 - 07:15 PM.

[Hans Davion]

OMG MS OP, NERF PLEASE, PGI GIVE QUIRKS TO CLANS

[Devil Fox]

Repasy, on 02 February 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

These players could still attain these goals by splitting into -MS- splinter groups. Most refuse to, probably because nobody has taken the first plunge. But I think this is the best and only option available to -MS- pilots at this time.

So your solution is to attack one unit that has the most presence in both the faction politics, and the CW dynamo... MS is by far not the largest unit in CW... we're just one with some good presence. Will this solution be applied to other multiple large units? Teams like CGBI, 228th, QQ, BWC... there are unit's out there with hundreds of members, that can field multiple 12 man's across all factions.

The only thing mercs have shown is that they bring both the manpower, numbers, skill and time to expand the factions they fight for. Steiner and FRR saw merc influx and in one week they crushed Wolf & Falcon, Clan Wolf rivals most factions for pure numbers, Falcons rival most factions for skill alone in their unit presence. Breaking up the most perceived merc unit is not a solution... there are unit's out there that rival MS for skill, breaking into smaller unit's means we're still in an alliance, we're still teaming up... welcome to faction warfare.

EDIT: One thing not mentioned anywhere is the level of skill improvement that unit's and factions that regularly face off against comp tems such as -MS- gain. The Falcons early on were not much threat, their unit's adapted, got better and can now fight CW on par... it takes all my skill and knowledge to lead drops against forces like KCOM and JFP. The same can be said of Wolf, their unit's such as CWI and SWOL keep getting better in terms of skill and tactics in leaps and bounds.

The same is true on the IS fronts... mercs go where the games are, and everyone learns how to play much better, more cohesive, and more tactically. I would even go so far as to suggest a new contract type to let merc's begin small training/cadre unit's under their main unit whilst within a faction to help teach these skills whilst attached to factions.

Edited by Apostal Sinclair, 02 February 2015 - 09:42 PM.