87 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Krigg, on 03 February 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

Thunderbolt 9S is ok. There is nothing need to fix (c) PGI

Haters gonna hate, weepie gonna cry.

It's only fair to give the Nova, Badder and Ferret the same quirks. They are a similar tier after all, and two of them come stock with two.


Of course, since the TDR can mount more than those three, it couldn't possibly be OP, right? Perfectly balanced.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mcgral18, on 03 February 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

It's only fair to give the Nova, Badder and Ferret the same quirks. They are a similar tier after all, and two of them come stock with two.


Of course, since the TDR can mount more than those three, it couldn't possibly be OP, right? Perfectly balanced.

And not only can it mount more, it gets to fire them for half the heat 15% faster.

[Mcgral18]

LordKnightFandragon, on 03 February 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

And not only can it mount more, it gets to fire them for half the heat 15% faster.

50% cooler and 25% faster recycle.

Or 42% faster when mastered with the module. Yep, that's exactly what those bad Clams need.

Edited by Mcgral18, 03 February 2015 - 09:32 AM.

[Apnu]

Macster16, on 02 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

What I want to know is, how come the Q1 5SS didn't create so much QQ like the 9S has when it was, in my opinion, more lethal than the 9S currently is. The Q1 5SS, while it lasted, was tearing it up - in just about every game I saw a 5SS in, the thing would be putting in upwards of 3 kills / 700 dmg easy. If one got within brawling distance, you were royally ****ed. Yet it did not create the volume of QQ like the 9S has.

I really don't get why the 9S has had such an effect on people when there is, or has been, equally or more OP stuff out there that hasn't made nearly as many rivers of tears.

From my experience, its got to do with CW. I've fought on the clan border a bunch and when Counter-Attacking Boreal, clans often put a couple of TBRs and DWFs up on the hill with ERLL and GRs and they suppress everything trying to open the gate and/or pour through. IS players hit on the notion that the TDR-9S can do that with ERPPCs all day on chain fire w/out the annoying burn times of the cERLL or the GR charge up.

its the one mech that competes with the clan's holy trinity of SCR, TBR, DWF in one specific role -- suppression fire. Clan teams have gotten a taste of their own medicine and they don't like it.

Some will say that the Awesome should have that role, while I agree from a lore perspective, we're talking about CW Invasion tactics, and at 80 tons IS player's can't take a deck of all Awesomes, unlike the clans who can take a deck of all SCRs with cERLLs or some mix of SCR and TBR with, basically, the same builds on them. Clan players basically have one build that goes on most of their mechs. IS players have to master several specialties in each CW game... that is until the TDR-9S came into its own.

[Gallowglas]

Seriously, I've asked this a million times and have yet to see anyone step up to the plate. Can you show me skewed mech statistics to show that you get significantly more kills, damage, or wins in your 9S than you do in your other mechs? Maybe my mileage just varies, but I easily get three times the output from my 3xERLL, AC/20 Misery or my 5SS than I do in my 9S. Furthermore, even if it is an outlier it would be hard to argue, as many have pointed out, that the 9S is a bigger outlier than the three prime Clan mechs.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Gallowglas, on 03 February 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Seriously, I've asked this a million times and have yet to see anyone step up to the plate. Can you show me skewed mech statistics to show that you get significantly more kills, damage, or wins in your 9S than you do in your other mechs? Maybe my mileage just varies, but I easily get three times the output from my 3xERLL, AC/20 Misery or my 5SS than I do in my 9S. Furthermore, even if it is an outlier it would be hard to argue, as many have pointed out, that the 9S is a bigger outlier than the three prime Clan mechs.

Prolly only cuz ErPPCs suck as a whole....both C and IS. If ERPPCs ever get a velocity increase, you will likely see the 9s become a real OP monster truly worthy of the QQ threads.....

I personally think its OP simply because no mech should be allowed to get 50% reduction to a ERPPC.....20% maybe....but meh..

[MechWarrior5152251]

Gallowglas, on 03 February 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Seriously, I've asked this a million times and have yet to see anyone step up to the plate. Can you show me skewed mech statistics to show that you get significantly more kills, damage, or wins in your 9S than you do in your other mechs? Maybe my mileage just varies, but I easily get three times the output from my 3xERLL, AC/20 Misery or my 5SS than I do in my 9S. Furthermore, even if it is an outlier it would be hard to argue, as many have pointed out, that the 9S is a bigger outlier than the three prime Clan mechs.

I have been asking for a single fricking screen shot for 3 months. Not a single one of these noobs can produce one. LOL.

[Roadkill]

Alistair Winter, on 03 February 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

Never. Russ Bullock likes it where it is. The TDR-9S is now basically so good that people are arguing whether the Timber Wolf is better. So they're both Tier 1 mechs at the moment.

LOL... no.

The 9S is good in one and only one environment: CW. And from what I've heard, really only on one of the two maps.

It's not that great in the solo or group queue. Tier 2 at best. It's a good Mech, but I certainly don't fear it because it's just not that good.

PPCwarrior is nowhere to be found.

[Alistair Winter]

Roadkill, on 03 February 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

LOL... no.
The 9S is good in one and only one environment: CW. And from what I've heard, really only on one of the two maps.
It's not that great in the solo or group queue. Tier 2 at best. It's a good Mech, but I certainly don't fear it because it's just not that good.
PPCwarrior is nowhere to be found.

I'll have to take your word for it. I reside in the underhive with Hunchback flamerboats and AWS-8R streakboats.

[Piney II]

I like my 9S, but it is FAR from being the OP invincible monster that it is made out to be.

[Yokaiko]

Roadkill, on 03 February 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

LOL... no.

The 9S is good in one and only one environment: CW.  And from what I've heard, really only on one of the two maps.

It's not that great in the solo or group queue.  Tier 2 at best.  It's a good Mech, but I certainly don't fear it because it's just not that good.

PPCwarrior is nowhere to be found.

One or two maps and then only on the opening wave.

Seriously, even on Boreal WHY would you take that thing once the gates are open, unless you are noobing around in the gate its counter productive.  In a heard they can be painful if focussing, but once you get them hot you can pretty much mow through them.

Yokaiko, on 03 February 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

One or two maps and then only on the opening wave.

Seriously, even on Boreal WHY would you take that thing once the gates are open, unless you are noobing around in the gate its counter productive.  In a herd they can be painful if focussing, but once you get them hot you can pretty much mow through them.

Edited by Yokaiko, 03 February 2015 - 11:27 AM.

[Mad Strike]

Zfailboat, on 02 February 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

Oh please. The thunderbolt is maybe marginally overpowered. MAYBE.

The stormcrow has stupid hit boxes, the Timberwolf has assault load outs with medium speeds (higher dmg, armour and speed than thunderbolts). the Direwolf is still 1.5x better than a king crab. 6 x UAC5's vs 4 on the king crab as an example.

The reason the thunderbolt is overplayed currently is that its the ONLY IS mech that can regularly match up to clans. what they need to do is IMPROVE the quirks on other mechs so that they match up. IMPROVE other mechs to match the thunderbolts, Timberwolves, Stormcrows and Firestarters. (both clan and IS alike)

Stop with the stupid nurf post for 1 mech or another and figure out a clue. thunderbolts are the FIRST IS mech to bring some BALANCE to IS. are they a little to far? not really they are still 10T lighter than a Timberwolf, and slower and have a lower alpha. Timberwolves can outbrawl them easily.

Even Lords who almost exclusively play MAX Clan mechs agree that they are NOT overpowered, but are in fact about right to make them competitive against maxed Clans.

I agree with you on the Stormcrow.....but not the rest.

[Mad Strike]

Team Chevy86, on 03 February 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

Let's just say let's wait until the 2nd quirk pass... Russ already tweeted about the Thunderbolts and Firestarters. I think they got the hint

oh nice !!! finally.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Zfailboat, on 02 February 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

Oh please. The thunderbolt is maybe marginally overpowered. MAYBE.

The stormcrow has stupid hit boxes, the Timberwolf has assault load outs with medium speeds (higher dmg, armour and speed than thunderbolts). the Direwolf is still 1.5x better than a king crab. 6 x UAC5's vs 4 on the king crab as an example.

The reason the thunderbolt is overplayed currently is that its the ONLY IS mech that can regularly match up to clans. what they need to do is IMPROVE the quirks on other mechs so that they match up. IMPROVE other mechs to match the thunderbolts, Timberwolves, Stormcrows and Firestarters. (both clan and IS alike)

Stop with the stupid nurf post for 1 mech or another and figure out a clue. thunderbolts are the FIRST IS mech to bring some BALANCE to IS. are they a little to far? not really they are still 10T lighter than a Timberwolf, and slower and have a lower alpha. Timberwolves can outbrawl them easily.

Even Lords who almost exclusively play MAX Clan mechs agree that they are NOT overpowered, but are in fact about right to make them competitive against maxed Clans.

And the TBR/SCR are most the clan mechs played cuz the rest kinda suck in thier own ways....

Sooo...yeah.

[Roadkill]

Alistair Winter, on 03 February 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

I'll have to take your word for it. I reside in the underhive with Hunchback flamerboats and AWS-8R streakboats.

Ah. I must be Tier 4 then. No one uses flamers, but everyone wants to stand behind hills and shoot missiles at everyone else in my games.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 03 February 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

It's only fair to give the Nova, Badder and Ferret the same quirks. They are a similar tier after all, and two of them come stock with two.


Of course, since the TDR can mount more than those three, it couldn't possibly be OP, right? Perfectly balanced.

For those three mechs on an individual level? It's fine.


For the clan faction as a whole for CW?

Not for the Nova, unfortunately.


Giving the Nova or Summoner TDR level buffs suddenly gives clans a full pinpoint jumpsniping advantage.


As it is now, I deal with TDR-9S in my ERLLAS Stormcrow.

800m means I can dodge their projectiles but they can't dodge my hitscan.

Even if I don't get all of the damage where I want it, they often get none of their damage at all.


Giving the Nova similar quirks, and suddenly I'd have access to a lower ton alternative that can take even better advantage of terrain.



That's not saying the Nova isn't due for some serious structure quirks, and I'd also like agility/mobility buffs - but it has plenty of firepower and I'm not convinced making it a low heat, 5x JJ dual CERPPC sniper is the right direction for balance as a whole.

[_____]

As mentioned, TDR-9S is only an issue in CW because there's a map called Boreal and you get it 50% of the time and you can take 12 of them. Remove any one of these conditions and 9S is just a plain "decent" mech (although as an Awesome pilot I think it's absurd that the 8Q PPC is barely cooler than the 9S ERPPC).

[Taemien]

Deathchoppa, on 03 February 2015 - 03:44 AM, said:

hang on, hang on... people are complaining (maybe not specifically here) about IS mechs not being equal to Clan mechs?
That is the point of clans, you all know that right? If a Stormcrow can beat aThunderbolt with both pilots of equal skill level, I'd say it's working as intended.
The main drawcard of IS mechs should be their extreme flexability, to create very personalised or niche loadouts. They should, tonfor ton, not be equal in firepower, manuverability, heat management or anything else to a clan mech. Quirks are nice, but don't go to far with them please.

Welcome to MechWarrior, where it isn't Table Top.

If we had a BV system that matched teams, it would work. But we don't. We have 12 v 12. So one player equals one player, period. That means your Daishi loaded with 50 tons of clan weaponry has to equal an Urbanmech in some form or fashion. Don't like it? There's always the pen, the paper, and your dice.

And that's just being realistic. I'd want a BV system too. I'd love to swarm a Star of Madcats with a company of Awesomes and Atlases. But we don't have a large enough playerbase to support a new match making system like that. I'm surprised we even have 12v12.

To support what you want, the playerbase would need to increase 10x, that's 1000%. For a game as old as this one is, that won't happen. Maybe in MechWarrior 6.

[Serpieri]

It seems that the TDR9s is a success so we should expect the same treatment for the Awesome, Catapult K2, and the Warhawk. After all, success should be shared with all.

Edited by Serpieri, 03 February 2015 - 06:51 PM.

[Sable]

Macster16, on 02 February 2015 - 11:19 PM, said:

What I want to know is, how come the Q1 5SS didn't create so much QQ like the 9S has when it was, in my opinion, more lethal than the 9S currently is. The Q1 5SS, while it lasted, was tearing it up - in just about every game I saw a 5SS in, the thing would be putting in upwards of 3 kills / 700 dmg easy. If one got within brawling distance, you were royally ****ed. Yet it did not create the volume of QQ like the 9S has.

I really don't get why the 9S has had such an effect on people when there is, or has been, equally or more OP stuff out there that hasn't made nearly as many rivers of tears.

It did get attention for being too good. And PGI adjusted it's quirk so it wasn't so overbearing. This is what people are up in arms about; that another overbearing quirk wasn't fixed right away. Because it has been left unchecked, 12 man teams in CW have been exploiting them for the past month. The 5SS was fixed on the next patch cycle. PPCs have been a problem in the game for a long time and were finally at a place where the negatives of their high heat helped balance them with the punch they provided. And now that's been undone with one mech where ERPPCs aren't even it's main weapons.