184 replies to this topic

[Fox Kell]

Molossian Dog, on 03 February 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

Guys, they won it. With whatever means and however you are going to judge their skills or their methods. And I say this as someone who dislikes more than one Smoked Kitty player plus their Mega-Merc epeeners.

What, in my opinion, lies behind the rants of many is:
People feel betrayed of a chance to fight in one of the most important battles of BT history.

Why? Because PGI hasn´t provided us with the means to do a proper Battle of Tukayyid.

That isn´t the Jag player´s fault, though. So don´t go and bash them for it. They didn´t steal Tukayyid. They conquered it in the only way they could and at the time when they had the chance.
Wouldn´t you have jumped at the chance just the same? Be honest. You would have.

Does it suck? Yes, big time.
Is it a reason to rage at the Jag players? No.

If you want to rage at them then do it because of their antisocial behaviour or their stupid opinions.
Not because of this.

Congrats to the Mercs for taking it.

Hehe they are blips on a map, taking Svelvik or Tukayyid means the same thing, nothing

I like the OP' s enthusiasm tho. Trying to make it sound like it means something, its cute .

Edited by Fox Kell, 04 February 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[Black Nationalist Gul Dukat]

Somebody made a comment about 4 ECM Hellbringers negating all LRMs.

Stop bringing LRMs. That's your short-term fix. Your strategy sucks and doesn't work in CW, change it. (On a somewhat related note they generally also suck in solo, group, and comp play as well.)

TAG and NARC exist as options and I think for balance reasons NARC should counter ECM considering the otherwise uselessness of it (I don't use LRMs ever so I don't know 100%that it does but I do know that the loading screen tips say it does not. Please correct me if I'm wrong) but until that day comes you should probably

stop

using

LRMs

"nah man, I was super 1337 pro in MW2-4 using LRMs and I'm just going to chill in the back and not be able to maintain locks because I force that responsibility on my team, who, on a good day, can sometimes remember to press 'R' but wait, why are you all dead, my team sucks, my LRMs don't work at close range, nerf clans, nerf 9S."

STOP

USING

LRMs

This has been a CSJ PSA

Edited by Black Nationalist Gul Dukat, 04 February 2015 - 01:24 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Black Nationalist Gul Dukat, on 04 February 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Somebody made a comment about 4 ECM Hellbringers negating all LRMs.

Stop bringing LRMs. That's your short-term fix. Your strategy sucks and doesn't work in CW, change it. (On a somewhat related note they generally also suck in solo, group, and comp play as well.)

TAG and NARC exist as options and I think for balance reasons NARC should counter ECM considering the otherwise uselessness of it (I don't use LRMs ever so I don't know 100%that it does but I do know that the loading screen tips say it does not. Please correct me if I'm wrong) but until that day comes you should probably

stop

using

LRMs

"nah man, I was super 1337 pro in MW2-4 using LRMs and I'm just going to chill in the back and not be able to maintain locks because I force that responsibility on my team, who, on a good day, can sometimes remember to press 'R' but wait, why are you all dead, my team sucks, my LRMs don't work at close range, nerf clans, nerf 9S."

STOP

USING

LRMs

This has been a CSJ PSA

I can think of a certain unit that bring a full wave of LRM spam.........I've also beat them twice in the last two days with pugs.

You know its bad when your pug team is asking in chat "are these guys for real?".

[wanderer]

Quote

NARC should counter ECM

Actually,it does. Good luck in getting your lights to pack the darn things, though. When they do and actually know their role (disable/kill ECM), it's effective.

LRMs vs. focused ECM without said counters (or if there's more ECM than people around to NARC it) goes straight to heck.

[Yokaiko]

wanderer, on 04 February 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

Actually,it does. Good luck in getting your lights to pack the darn things, though. When they do and actually know their role (disable/kill ECM), it's effective.

LRMs vs. focused ECM without said counters (or if there's more ECM than people around to NARC it) goes straight to heck.

LRM is just bad.

[Hardin4188]

Imagine The Battle of Tukkayid in lore to be a glorious event that would forever shape history like the battle of Hastings. Now imagine the battle of Tukkayid in game to be more like Crusader Kings 2 where William the ******* falls on his head in battle and later dies a maimed cripple.

[Prussian Havoc]

Black Nationalist Gul Dukat, on 04 February 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Somebody made a comment about 4 ECM Hellbringers negating all LRMs.

Stop bringing LRMs. That's your short-term fix. Your strategy sucks and doesn't work in CW, change it. (On a somewhat related note they generally also suck in solo, group, and comp play as well.)

TAG and NARC exist as options and I think for balance reasons NARC should counter ECM considering the otherwise uselessness of it (I don't use LRMs ever so I don't know 100%that it does but I do know that the loading screen tips say it does not. Please correct me if I'm wrong) but until that day comes you should probably

stop

using

LRMs

"nah man, I was super 1337 pro in MW2-4 using LRMs and I'm just going to chill in the back and not be able to maintain locks because I force that responsibility on my team, who, on a good day, can sometimes remember to press 'R' but wait, why are you all dead, my team sucks, my LRMs don't work at close range, nerf clans, nerf 9S."

STOP

USING

LRMs

This has been a CSJ PSA

So what does it say that the one and only player currently at Level 20 in ANY FACTION is a pure LRM Boat Driver?


...completely dedicated to realizing ANY and ALL Combined Arms tactics, techniques and procedures...


...understands the value of Intelligence / Active Scouting / popping Advanced UAV's BEYOND COUNTING amidst Enemy formations [flailing around with the last load of 6 LRM5 salvos so as to better mask the Launch of a solitary A-UAV in and among all the LRMs flailing into the air, apparent to the Enemy to be not hitting (on purpose) a darn thing]?


What does it say that it was a LRM Boat Driver who, by far outpaced ALL closest competition to Level 20?


Those of you who proudly beat your chests over the manliness of DIRECT FIRE / PIN-POINT / MIN-MAXED / META all day long and twice on weekend days, where was your Meta-Champion in the Race to Level 20?


All your loud and boisterous bragging and castigation of those players who prefer Indirect Fire, achieves is to unbalance the Combined Arms potential of MWO.



And you know what?

I use that to my advantage.

Because MWO gamers by and large #EatTheirOwn when it comes to dissuading novice gamers from developing a complex and COMP level LRM game, I was more able to ride my admittedly meager LRM skills all the way to Level 20.



...



And Russ confirmed via Twitter that I was the first to Level 20, for all those who are set to question my above assertions and begin to flame away (though no doubt some will do that anyway )

I am not bragging (okay maybe a little ) I am only advocating very strongly for some tolerance on behalf of those gamers who would develop their LRM game.

PGI currently responds with heavy emphasis to chest-thumping Direct Fire guys and has basically tilted game mechanics in greatly in favor of Direct Fire Gameplay.


However, if ever we get Thinder-LRMs... ask yourself how much you would rather have had a LRM guy to lay missile-delivered-mines for YOUR team to take out Enemy Legs rather than have had it done to your 100-tonner's Legs.


Who will be wanting a competent LRM Boat driver then?

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 04 February 2015 - 03:20 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Prussian Havoc, on 04 February 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

So what does it say that the one and only player currently at Level 20 in ANY FACTION is a pure LRM Boat Driver?

Says you don't log out much frankly.

[Davers]

Prussian Havoc, on 04 February 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

So what does it say that the one and only player currently at Level 20 in ANY FACTION is a pure LRM Boat Driver?

It says the IS desperately needs a good ECM heavy.

[Fox Kell]

Yokaiko, on 04 February 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

Says you don't log out much frankly.

This ^^^, does he actually believe his "skillz" or LRM's got him to 20, lol.

You just play ALOT more than others, is all.

[Black Nationalist Gul Dukat]

Prussian Havoc, on 04 February 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

An Ode to LRMs

1. You probably play more than nearly anyone
2. The post was specifically about "IS can't handle Hellbringers"
3. The Advanced UAV is an MC item and a consumable to boot, not all pilots have that option available to them
4. You need to build a team and strategy to even make LRMs viable, when it is more efficient in general to not field situational mechs
5. Most units in this game, especially IS units, are not at a skill level where they can coherently form a winning LRM strategy for CW, which, while in Beta, encourages you to end the match as efficiently as possible in order to defend/attack a planet and drop again
6. Building on 5, a less skilled unit will have an easier time putting together direct-fire strategies that work and require less practice and pilot skill than depending on a light pilot to deploy MC consumables (burden shouldered by the pilot, not the LRM shooter) without getting focused down and lost.
7. There was no chest thumping on direct-fire in that post, it was a statement regarding the efficacy of LRMs, which, I'm sure you may have noticed, when deployed by people who are not you do not produce the same results.
8. (Lore nerdery) you're lucky there's no Clan LRM supply chain issues or ammo cost in this game.

*shrugs*

[wanderer]

Quote

It says the IS desperately needs a good ECM heavy.

And the only 3050-era one was the Cataphract -0X prototype.

(Then again, Liao was ahead of it's time when it came to EW.)

Quote

3. The Advanced UAV is an MC item and a consumable to boot, not all pilots have that option available to them

Or you simply spent GXP for the upgraded C-bill UAV that takes no MC to buy at all, only C-bills. Often worth every C-bill, especially if you can pop one out of direct LOS on a flank instead of where it's obvious.

[Davers]

wanderer, on 04 February 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

And the only 3050-era one was the Cataphract -0X prototype.

(Then again, Liao was ahead of it's time when it came to EW.)



Or you simply spent GXP for the upgraded C-bill UAV that takes no MC to buy at all, only C-bills. Often worth every C-bill, especially if you can pop one out of direct LOS on a flank instead of where it's obvious.

Yeah. Shame Liao couldn't have any of their tech advantages in MWO.

[Black Nationalist Gul Dukat]

wanderer, on 04 February 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

And the only 3050-era one was the Cataphract -0X prototype.

(Then again, Liao was ahead of it's time when it came to EW.)



Or you simply spent GXP for the upgraded C-bill UAV that takes no MC to buy at all, only C-bills. Often worth every C-bill, especially if you can pop one out of direct LOS on a flank instead of where it's obvious.

A valid point, but it discounts the difficulty of accumulating GXP without premium, prioritizing other modules which are hands down considered more important for a new(er) player (Radar Deprivation, Seismic Sensor), and module slots that can be filled with more useful modules.

However, this isn't a concern for someone who has played the game as much as Prussian Havoc has. If you have a dedicated team of founders/beta players with nearly everything unlocked at this point, that's still nowhere near the majority of the player base.

DISCLAIMER: I do use premium time

EDIT: Sorry for the derail it wasn't my intent. LRMs did not win or lose Tukayyid, mostly because they were barely deployed outside of a few individual pub players.

Edited by Black Nationalist Gul Dukat, 04 February 2015 - 03:00 PM.

[Lindonius]

Loving this thread. Clans take Tukayyid due to broken game mechanics and then create a thread designed to stroke their epeens while the rest of you slag them off for abusing said broken mechanics.

[Vanguard319]

The Clans will prevail! Terra is our birthright!

[Prussian Havoc]

Black Nationalist Gul Dukat, on 04 February 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

1. You probably play more than nearly anyone
2. The post was specifically about "IS can't handle Hellbringers"
3. The Advanced UAV is an MC item and a consumable to boot, not all pilots have that option available to them
4. You need to build a team and strategy to even make LRMs viable, when it is more efficient in general to not field situational mechs
5. Most units in this game, especially IS units, are not at a skill level where they can coherently form a winning LRM strategy for CW, which, while in Beta, encourages you to end the match as efficiently as possible in order to defend/attack a planet and drop again
6. Building on 5, a less skilled unit will have an easier time putting together direct-fire strategies that work and require less practice and pilot skill than depending on a light pilot to deploy MC consumables (burden shouldered by the pilot, not the LRM shooter) without getting focused down and lost.
7. There was no chest thumping on direct-fire in that post, it was a statement regarding the efficacy of LRMs, which, I'm sure you may have noticed, when deployed by people who are not you do not produce the same results.
8. (Lore nerdery) you're lucky there's no Clan LRM supply chain issues or ammo cost in this game.

*shrugs*

Nice points, well-articulated.

+1

As the OP for this thread I reserve the right to expound on select sub-tactics and I find the Clans OVER-RELIANCE on the Trinity of Meta-Direwolves, Laser-Timberwolves and Laser-Stormcrows very troubling.

I would hope Clan Units were more involved in actually developing tactical actions - "fire and maneuver" for example - rather than lean on Clan Tech as. Crutch.

But then we can always just wait for PGI's second round of quirks and the highly quirked Resistance Package.

Yes, wait.

Wait so long that we fall behind in small unit tactics AND have the Tech Advantage "quirked" out from underneath us.

Quineg?

Black Nationalist Gul Dukat, on 04 February 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

A valid point, but it discounts the difficulty of accumulating GXP without premium, prioritizing other modules which are hands down considered more important for a new(er) player (Radar Deprivation, Seismic Sensor), and module slots that can be filled with more useful modules.

However, this isn't a concern for someone who has played the game as much as Prussian Havoc has. If you have a dedicated team of founders/beta players with nearly everything unlocked at this point, that's still nowhere near the majority of the player base.

DISCLAIMER: I do use premium time

EDIT: Sorry for the derail it wasn't my intent. LRMs did not win or lose Tukayyid, mostly because they were barely deployed outside of a few individual pub players.

I believe what wanderer was getting at is the importance of battles pace situational awareness when leading a disparate and non-TeamSpeak group of 12-Solo gamers.

It is most difficult to tell a group of 11 that you KNOW the Enemy HAS to come Gamma next because on,y Gen 1 remains to be taken out before our Omega is uncovered...

...but as a LRM boat driver near empty on missiles and already in the middle of our pack, it is a MUCH simpler matter of taking my 89.1 kph MDD for a sprint out Gamma and throwing up an A-UAV from the middle of 12- Enemy Mechs (a A-UAV hidden in an amongst a wild spray upwards of 30 missiles.) IT IS AMAZING how fast my remaining 11 fellow gamers rush to a battle line facing the gamma gate then, all the while I just drop into another fully provisioned LRM MDD (thank Russ there is no MWO Rearm and Reload!!! You are completely correct on that account!)

I would regularly get 2200 damage, 800k chills, 1500 Loyalty Points an 8k XP when successfully leading 11-Solos.

THAT was the secret (if you can even call it that) to my reaching 20th level... well THAT and being retired military with all the time there is to feed my gaming addiction. (Yes, I freely admit that )

Thanks for the carefully considered posts! I enjoy ForumWarrior almost as much as MechWarrior!

[Prussian Havoc]

JTSR, on 04 February 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

...(snip)...I thought this thred was about the battel of TUKAYYID and how it was won and or should have been fought over not personal attacks and nerfing stuff Clan or IS ...(snip)...

Too true.

I am ashamed to have indulged in my LRM'edness.

I apologize to BN Gul Dukat.

S T A Y - O N - T A R G E T.

Prussian Havoc, on 02 February 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

BREAK BREAK BREAK

Unexpectedly the current Oceanic-cycle has seen Turkayyid selected as the Clan Smoke Jaguar - FRR Liberation Objective: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Tukayyid

Site of the climactic and pivotal Battle of Tukayyid (http://www.sarna.net...tle_of_Tukayyid),

Lore would have you believe:
"...conflict on this planet was a turning point during the Clan Invasion of the Inner Sphere. After the Com Guards defeated a combined force of the Clans, the Truce of Tukayyid forbade the Clans from advancing past the planet Tukayyid for the next fifteen years. The battle began on May 1, 3052 and ended May 20, 3052."

Tonight, Lore has been replaced with:
"...conflict on this planet was a turning point during the Clan Invasion of the Inner Sphere. No Com Guards Package has yet been released by PGI. Absent the superiority of Com Guard Tech, Tactics and leadership, only hastily raised FRR and Inner Sphere Common Defenders were on hand to defend this Jewel of BattleTech Lore. Battle has been joined, with Inner Sphere defenders now hotly engaged with Vanguard elements of Clan Smoke Jaguar.

There shall be no Truce of Tukayyid.

There will be no fifteen years hiatus to the Clan Drive on Terra.

The Battle for Tukayyid begins tonight, February 3, 3052... and ends in 8-hours."

The Clans triumphant.

BREAK BREAK BREAK

JTSR is right, there is value in debating the why's and wherefore's just how the Clans:

1. Liberated Tukayyid.
2. What the Clans gained as a result.
3. What the Inner Sphere lost as a result.



1. PGI's gifting of CSJ with the "wormhole" technology needed to jump past 5-stars (there is no straight line in CW, the logarithm must have a Faction scatter around a bit first) an bee-line straight for Tukayyid.

TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THAT NO ONE expected that to happen.

No Clanner expected it.

No IS'er expected that.

Maybe Russ's puppy, "KHAN Megalomanic" expected it... maybe it is even this FEDCOM Beagle of a puppy that is programming the algorithm to have CSJ interfere in CGB's axis of advance on Terra... idk.

But was clear that night was that I and about 6 other CSJ Loyalist and CSJ term-Mercs were up and in TeamSpeak when Tukayyid appeared as a failed attack option.

10-seconds of shocked silence ensued

Then we were ALL in queue and jumping through all the CSJ TeamSpeaks that we could before that first drop.

The rest is MWO CW History... because FRR and all House Common Defenders were not expecting it, indeed not even checking for it and it the 8-hour opportunity for a SHARED defense fell during the NA night (midnight to 8am.)



2. Once Tukayyid was in Clan Hands ALL Clan Trothkin can now flock to Tukayyid's Defense. THAT is a monstrous advantage.


3. Currently the ability to Retake Tukayyid is repeatedly shifting back and forth from House Steiner to the FRR, it is up to House Steiner at the moment. I have dropped 4-times now against 12-mans of House Steiner in the Clan Den of Tukayyid. While a Planetfall bastion of two-sectors HAS been realized, the valiant teams of House Steiner are beginning overwhelmed by comparable but luckier Clan 12-mans or just raw numbers of Claners wiling to work in Clan Common Defense.


All in all CSJ "stole a march on FRR" and upon seeing just how easy it is to take a "Deep Strike" target, CSJ is not doubly vigilant to ensure that never hands again.


It will be in the full light of day that either Steiner or FRR will have to retake Tukayyid.


And THAT will be well-nigh impossible, in my opinion. But will make for some very fun matches.

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 04 February 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

According to the Clanbabies the TDR makes IS unstoppable. What happened? lol....

[Abivard]

Prussian Havoc, on 04 February 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

Too true.

I am ashamed to have indulged in my LRM'edness.

I apologize to BN Gul Dukat.

S T A Y - O N - T A R G E T.


JSTR is right, there is value in debating the why's and wherefore's just how the Clans:

1. Liberated Tukayyid.
2. What the Clans gained as a result.
3. What the Inner Sphere lost as a result.



1. PGI's gifting of CSJ with the "wormhole" technology needed to jump past 5-stars (there is no straight line in CW, the logarithm must have a Faction scatter around a bit first) an bee-line straight for Tukayyid.

TRUST ME WHEN I SAY THAT NO ONE expected that to happen.

No Clanner expected it.

No IS'er expected that.

Maybe Russ's puppy, "KHAN Megalomanic" expected it... maybe it is even this FEDCOM Beagle of a puppy that is programming the algorithm to have CSJ interfere in CGB's axis of advance on Terra... idk.

But was clear that night was that I and about 6 other CSJ Loyalist and CSJ term-Mercs were up and in TeamSpeak when Tukayyid appeared as a failed attack option.

10-seconds of shocked silence ensued

Then we were ALL in queue and jumping through all the CSJ TeamSpeaks that we could before that first drop.

The rest is MWO CW History... because FRR and all House Common Defenders were not expecting it, indeed not even checking for it and it the 8-hour opportunity for a SHARED defense fell during the NA night (midnight to 8am.)



2. Once Tukayyid was in Clan Hands ALL Clan Trothkin can now flock to Tukayyid's Defense. THAT is a monstrous advantage.


3. Currently the ability to Retake Tukayyid is repeatedly shifting back and forth from House Steiner to the FRR, it is up to House Steiner at the moment. I have dropped 4-times now against 12-mans of House Steiner in the Clan Den of Tukayyid. While a Planetfall bastion of two-sectors HAS been realized, the valiant teams of House Steiner are beginning overwhelmed by comparable but luckier Clan 12-mans or just raw numbers of Claners wiling to work in Clan Common Defense.


All in all CSJ "stole a march on FRR" and upon seeing just how easy it is to take a "Deep Strike" target, CSJ is not doubly vigilant to ensure that never hands again.


It will be in the full light of day that either Steiner or FRR will have to retake Tukayyid.


And THAT will be well-nigh impossible, in my opinion. But will make for some very fun matches.

And if either us or the Steiners manage to take it back after all this hoopla, then it would be a noteworthy deed.

I for one had no conscious thought that this planet was in the FRR nor it's RP significance as a whatever the clans called it 'battle for the fate of the galaxy' that BT canon had used.

As long as our two factions, FRR and Steiner, remain among the least populated faction and where as even the smallest clan alone outnumbers either of us, I doubt it will happen.