147 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

MauttyKoray, on 05 February 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

My Adder will wipe its ass with the piece of tissue known as the Kit Fox. I have yet to see a Kit Fox (even with its ECM, AMS, and varied loadouts) not run from me as I tear it to pieces and simultaneously cook it as it can't get away running the same speed as me.

im sorry i dont mean to be harsh, and i do understand player preference for a Chassis,
but as the KitFox can carry 4Eneryg or 4Missile +2MG & 6JJ or 3Energy ECM 3AMS 4MG & 6JJ,
wouldnt that make it better? as it has move advantages(JumpJets, AMS, ECM, +4MG),

as i said this change wont take away anything from Adders,
you could still run your adder with a flamer, but there is one thing that would change,
you could start seeing Adders on the Battle Field more often,

its already stated that unlocking the Flamer would open up a high mounted Energy Hard-point,
which would give the Adder something no other Clan light has, and another way to play it,
personally if they unlocked the Flamer, i would play mine more often, i love the Chassis,

[Ultimax]

MauttyKoray, on 05 February 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing in this game is worthless. It may not fit into the 'META' but as I've stated before, overheating or killing with a flamer is possible, it is VERY possible. Just because people can't learn to deal with something doesn't mean it should be changed for their sake.

A single flamer is completely worthless, and believing it is a valuable addition to your build is just delusion.

[MauttyKoray]

Ultimatum X, on 05 February 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

A single flamer is completely worthless, and believing it is a valuable addition to your build is just delusion.

Tell that to the people I've shutdown and even killed with it.

[Widowmaker1981]

MauttyKoray, on 05 February 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

DHS are broken, because this game has a ridiculous inflated heatcap.

Common misconception, this game does NOT have a "ridiculously inflated heatcap" - in classic tabletop Battletech your heat capacity is 30, but heat is only calculated at the END of the turn. I.E. a hypothetical Warhawk Prime with 4 ERPPCs and 30 DHS could fire ALL 4 PPCs, for a total of 60 heat, and it would be ABSOLUTELY UNAFFECTED by heat as the 30 DHS would sink all 60 heat generated and be at 0 at the end of the turn, which means for a realtime simulation of this the initial heatcap must be 30+DHSx2 - which is what we have (sort of, our DHS are 1.4 not 2.0, but same kind of deal)

With a hard heatcap of 30 that Warhawk would shutdown instantly from firing 2! of its 4 PPCs, which is clearly FAR from a recreation of what happens in BT

Proponents of a lower heatcap also are not thinking about how much vastly superior low heat DPS autocannons would become to high heat energy weapons, which can only compete now due to the ability to alpha / rapidly chainfire and then hide while cooling down. (prior to the introduction of Clans and then Quirks, ACs WERE absolutely flat out superior to energy weapons, especially lasers)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 February 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Well since the flamer is not a Hard Point, would it give the Adder an extra ton to work with? No extra weapon just mass and crit?

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

Well since the flamer is not a Hard Point, would it give the Adder an extra ton to work with? No extra weapon just mass and crit?

As a 107 kph mech with 35 ton mech armour and no ECM or JJs, the adder needs the high mounted hardpoint too (and way more than the extra ton)

[Joseph Mallan]

I disagree with one thing Widow. I do understand what a proper BattleTech heat scale would do to the game. And a hard 30 Heat cap would not Instantly shut down the Mech. Heat would spike Sinks would vent, at the end of so many seconds (3-5) if heat is still over 30... shut down or over ride.

Widowmaker1981, on 06 February 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

As a 107 kph mech with 35 ton mech armour and no ECM or JJs, the adder needs the high mounted hardpoint too (and way more than the extra ton)

I don't argue that BUT it is not a Hard Point to be swapped it is hard wired.

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

I disagree with one thing Widow. I do understand what a proper BattleTech heat scale would do to the game. And a hard 30 Heat cap would not Instantly shut down the Mech. Heat would spike Sinks would vent, at the end of so many seconds (3-5) if heat is still over 30... shut down or over ride.

not how it works at the moment. If you hit the heatcap you shut down instantly, unless overriding - in which case you take serious internal damage pretty much instantly

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

I don't argue that BUT it is not a Hard Point to be swapped it is hard wired.

Yeah but thats kinda smoke and mirrors, since hardpoints are an invention of PGI as far as omnimechs are concerned at least... while i understand the reasons for it being like it is here, if an adder wanted to mount 16 ERMLs in TT it could do so.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 February 2015 - 02:27 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 February 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

not how it works at the moment. If you hit the heatcap you shut down instantly, unless overriding - in which case you take serious internal damage pretty much instantly



Yeah but thats kinda smoke and mirrors, since hardpoints are an invention of PGI as far as omnimechs are concerned at least... while i understand the reasons for it being like it is here, if an adder wanted to mount 16 ERMLs in TT it could do so.

PGI Works for the Air force? They do seem to try to redefine the meaning of words though.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 February 2015 - 02:48 AM.

[Lily from animove]

There will never be a PPC in the adders head, not enough slots.

MauttyKoray, on 05 February 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

My Adder will wipe its ass with the piece of tissue known as the Kit Fox. I have yet to see a Kit Fox (even with its ECM, AMS, and varied loadouts) not run from me as I tear it to pieces and simultaneously cook it as it can't get away running the same speed as me.

if you would make both mechs for a direct duelling I would not bet on the adder. in regular combat out there the kitfox will be a support mehc, while the adder is a damage mech, then of course in this setup the adder will win.

[Widowmaker1981]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 02:46 AM, said:

PGI Works for the Air force? They do seem to try to redefine the meaning of words though.

hush, i said as far as omnimechs are concerned

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

I disagree with one thing Widow. I do understand what a proper BattleTech heat scale would do to the game. And a hard 30 Heat cap would not Instantly shut down the Mech. Heat would spike Sinks would vent, at the end of so many seconds (3-5) if heat is still over 30... shut down or over ride.


I don't argue that BUT it is not a Hard Point to be swapped it is hard wired.

I still disagree with PGI's decision to make the oldest, most beat up mechs completely modifiable....but the newer Omnis aren't. Seems a little ridiculous to me.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 06 February 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

I still disagree with PGI's decision to make the oldest, most beat up mechs completely modifiable....but the newer Omnis aren't. Seems a little ridiculous to me.

Its a perspective thing Phule.

Clanners were not given to free thinking to much. They used mostly what was given to them and supposedly had "limited" resources to go around.

The Inner Sphere Mercs were the Freebirds. able to do whatever so long as they had teh money to do so.

IF we have House Units added I could see PGI stipulating they have to use their Mechs with X config because that is what the House gave them.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I enjoy working around fixed equipment like endo, ferro, and DHS in Clan mechs. However, it does seem that the only examples of locked equipment occur on already bad mechs. I don't want to start down the road of unlocking Clan upgrades, but on a case by case basis I think it would be fine if the Adder's flamer and Mist Lynx's Active Probe were unlocked.

Edited by Rouken, 06 February 2015 - 06:59 AM.

[Soy]

So I'm taking my Mist Lynx to get the CAP removed by Rick Dale from that one TV show American Restoration... you'll be able to catch the episode premiere on the History channel this Sunday.

Edited by Soy, 06 February 2015 - 01:47 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 February 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

Well since the flamer is not a Hard Point, would it give the Adder an extra ton to work with? No extra weapon just mass and crit?

It counts as a hardpoint everywhere. It's also only a half ton.

Lily from animove, on 06 February 2015 - 02:55 AM, said:

There will never be a PPC in the adders head, not enough slots.

Just saying, it's there.


Of course, it might just take all models and throw them in a hardpoint. That makes sense with the current system.

[Ultimax]

MauttyKoray, on 05 February 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

Tell that to the people I've shutdown and even killed with it.

Why don't you stop talking nonsense and post a video of it?

[Deathlike]

Ultimatum X, on 06 February 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Why don't you stop talking nonsense and post a video of it?

I've actually tried to kill crit mechs with the Flamer.

It's as ineffective as having less than 4MGs, and it does nothing in terms of being a backup option outside of heating up the mech.

I've never seen the most useless point of a hardlocked weapon like this... but the Adder has convinced me to this extreme.

[MauttyKoray]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 February 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

Common misconception, this game does NOT have a "ridiculously inflated heatcap" - in classic tabletop Battletech your heat capacity is 30, but heat is only calculated at the END of the turn. I.E. a hypothetical Warhawk Prime with 4 ERPPCs and 30 DHS could fire ALL 4 PPCs, for a total of 60 heat, and it would be ABSOLUTELY UNAFFECTED by heat as the 30 DHS would sink all 60 heat generated and be at 0 at the end of the turn, which means for a realtime simulation of this the initial heatcap must be 30+DHSx2 - which is what we have (sort of, our DHS are 1.4 not 2.0, but same kind of deal)

With a hard heatcap of 30 that Warhawk would shutdown instantly from firing 2! of its 4 PPCs, which is clearly FAR from a recreation of what happens in BT

Proponents of a lower heatcap also are not thinking about how much vastly superior low heat DPS autocannons would become to high heat energy weapons, which can only compete now due to the ability to alpha / rapidly chainfire and then hide while cooling down. (prior to the introduction of Clans and then Quirks, ACs WERE absolutely flat out superior to energy weapons, especially lasers)

Common misconception, and I didn't even play the game. Your turn represented a 10 second window of times, during that time factoring in those heatsinks to your 'heat cap' isn't what's happening. They're dissipating the heat your mech is generating over those 10 seconds. Your weapons fire, movement, and heat dissipation all occur in a 10 second period, your heat that you end up with is what your heatsinks didn't dissipate within that 10 seconds. Think about it, it makes sense. Obviously for a tabletop game things like the penalties made sense, but realistically that '5 weapon alpha' you used which didn't overheat you cause of your heatsinks probably wasn't an actual alpha and was fired over 10 seconds while the heatsinks was dissipating it in between. This makes sense taking into account the way locations on an enemy mech are targeted.

In MWO if you fire 3 lasers at once they all hit the same spot, in TT if you fire 3 lasers they have a chance to hit different locations. If you chain fire 3 lasers in MWO, they also have a chance to hit different locations from your movement, enemy movement, etc.

While a terrible game, if you ever saw one of Mechwarrior Tactics 'action phases', it is actually a good representation of what occurs in a '10 second turn'.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 06 February 2015 - 05:23 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Can you imagine if all flamers were hard-locked on every mech? It would worth it for the following mechs alone:
The firestarter, hard to imagine putting flamers on a mech named firestarter, crazy talk.
The Thunderbolt 9S, A little different when shooting from the hip.