254 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

lets innovate by making it 4 lanes

[MikeBend]

Why cant we have a hill map with some not very high hills to use as cover, but otherwise free to roam. I mean something like a real life desert or something like that. You can go over hills or you can go between or do what you like. Snipers and lrm can be an issue though. So maybe an all urban map then, just like a big city block. Anything will do, but we need at least one such simple map to see if the concept is viable.

[King Arthur IV]

your missing the fact that the dota maps have more then 3 routes to destination point. way way more. im not saying dota maps are good for mwo but a true dota map with the whole map accessible would be a lot better then the current mwo maps.

[Escef]

MikeBend, on 03 February 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

Why cant we have a hill map with some not very high hills to use as cover, but otherwise free to roam. I mean something like a real life desert or something like that. You can go over hills or you can go between or do what you like. Snipers and lrm can be an issue though.

You realize that you just described Caustic Valley?

[Tony Benoit]

Escef, on 03 February 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

You realize that you just described Caustic Valley?

Issues with maps like Caustic and Apline are, they are featureless. There is basically nothing on the map to play by.

Bottom line is make more maps like Factory and Crimson, and to a lesser extent the outside of Terra and HPG.

[MikeBend]

I didnt describe caustic, cause caustic basicly has one caldera in center and thats it, i described something that is a field with hills everywhere.

Edit: As NotMWHighlander said - something like outside of Mordor, sort of.

Edited by MikeBend, 03 February 2015 - 11:09 PM.

[Escef]

MikeBend, on 03 February 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

I didnt describe caustic, cause caustic basicly has one caldera in center and thats it, i described something that is a field with hills everywhere.

Edit: As NotMWHighlander said - something like outside of Mordor, sort of.

Dude, you totally described Caustic. You have one hill dominating the middle, some smaller hills midway across the map on the... 6 line area, I think it is, have to check when I get home. An entire line of smaller hills running down the 2 line, plenty of open area to roam around in, the area between the central hill and each base is mostly empty, possible problems with snipers and LRMs.

You described Caustic Valley.

EDIT: And NotMWHighlander is off his chum if he thinks Caustic and Alpine are "featureless". I mean, Caustic has a gigantic hill, a flanking hill almost as large, a line of hills off to the side, 2 lakes, and a small urban area. Alpine is a series of mountains and valleys, and the high ground base area sees some use providing urban terrain during assault matches. How in hell's black acre is that "featureless"?

Edited by Escef, 03 February 2015 - 11:19 PM.

[627]

I'd say just look at the old and new maps from battlefield 2-4. Those maps are not only huge enough, they don't have those choking lanes either. But you can take nearly any way you want and come from every direction to the cap points.

[MikeBend]

http://i.imgur.com/XnivF0W.png Doesnt look like caustic at all.

[Escef]

MikeBend, on 03 February 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

http://i.imgur.com/XnivF0W.png Doesnt look like caustic at all.

Sand dune no equal hill.

[Tony Benoit]

Escef, on 03 February 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

EDIT: And NotMWHighlander is off his chum if he thinks Caustic and Alpine are "featureless". I mean, Caustic has a gigantic hill, a flanking hill almost as large, a line of hills off to the side, 2 lakes, and a small urban area. Alpine is a series of mountains and valleys, and the high ground base area sees some use providing urban terrain during assault matches. How in hell's black acre is that "featureless"?

You sure I'm the one who's off his/her rocker? Besides victory hill and the four points on conquest, when is 90% of Alpine used? And good luck getting hard cover from lrms or jump snipers on Caustic. I will admit Narcs are hilarious on Caustic.

Edited by NotMwHighlander, 03 February 2015 - 11:29 PM.

[MikeBend]

Escef, on 03 February 2015 - 11:26 PM, said:

Sand dune no equal hill.

Ah comrade pliz forgiv my non englishnesssness

[Davers]

NotMwHighlander, on 03 February 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

You sure I'm the one who's off his/her rocker? Besides victory hill and the four points on conquest, when is 90% of Alpine used? And good luck getting hard cover from lrms or jump snipers on Caustic. I will admit Narcs are hilarious on Caustic.

Well, that is the problem right there. People don't use 90% of Alpine because the majority of players are not interested in tactics and maneuvering. They just want to walk right up and shoot robots. In Skirmish, the hill can easily be totally ignored. Players can choose to set up anywhere else on the map- but they don't. They will walk in a straight line, in full view of every sniper and LRM boat, right to the red triangles. This is why we have the maps we have. Players want fast games. They are more interested in the quantity of games, than the quality.

[Vassago Rain]

haruko, on 03 February 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

It only took you guys 3 YEARS TO NOTICE SOMETHING I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS.

EVERY MAP IS AN EARTH BOWL/IMPASSABLE BARRIER COMBO WITH 3 LANES.

RIVER CITY: EARTH BOWL/OCEAN, 3 LANES
CAUSTIC: EARTH BOWL/MOUNTAIN, 3 LANES
FOREST COLONY: EARTH BOWL/OCEAN, 3 LANES
CRIMSON: EARTH BOWL/OCEAN, 3 LANES

ETC ETC.

The only sort of unique map is Frozen City and even then only because instead of a flat out earth bowl there's the giant ice crevasse cutting through the center. The extra large maps like Alpine and Desert are just jumbo sized earth bowls with wider lanes.

Don't even get me started on Canyon, I ******* hate Canyon with such an intense burning passion, it is literally THE embodiment of everything that has been wrong with the map design in this game. It is LITERALLY, LITERALLY 3 LANES IN AN EARTH BOWL.

I approve of this post.

[Tony Benoit]

Davers, on 03 February 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

Well, that is the problem right there. People don't use 90% of Alpine because the majority of players are not interested in tactics and maneuvering. They just want to walk right up and shoot robots. In Skirmish, the hill can easily be totally ignored. Players can choose to set up anywhere else on the map- but they don't. They will walk in a straight line, in full view of every sniper and LRM boat, right to the red triangles. This is why we have the maps we have. Players want fast games. They are more interested in the quantity of games, than the quality.

but unless you can go 115+kph, what does going to the random and very far few between hills accomplish when you can get shot from victory hill in all cases? Victory hill cannot be easily ignored because it is a very central and pivotal part of the map that you can engage all other parts of the map from. Bottom line is most of the map is featureless and far too open. Bad map design.

Just another map that can be added to the laundry list of needs improving.

Edited by NotMwHighlander, 03 February 2015 - 11:41 PM.

[Escef]

NotMwHighlander, on 03 February 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

You sure I'm the one who's off his/her rocker? Besides victory hill and the four points on conquest, when is 90% of Alpine used?

Most of it doesn't get used. That doesn't mean the parts that don't get used fail to exist. And even still, all those hills and you call it "featureless"? Either you're crazier than a boatload of fruitcake or you have an issue with abusing hyperbole.

NotMwHighlander, on 03 February 2015 - 11:29 PM, said:

And good luck getting hard cover from lrms or jump snipers on Caustic. I will admit Narcs are hilarious on Caustic.

The 2-line ridge. People used to use the 2-line ridge to cover their play at the enemy's base. People got broken of that habit by the defense turrets. And now we have teams that gleefully ignore the terrain, as evidenced by your staggering claims of the map being "featureless".

Edited by Escef, 03 February 2015 - 11:46 PM.

[Tony Benoit]

Escef, on 03 February 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

Most of it doesn't get used. That doesn't mean the parts that don't get used fail to exist. And even stil, all those hills and you call it "featureless"? Either you're crazier than a boatload of fruitcake or you have an issue with abusing hyperbole.



The 2-line ridge. People used to use the 2-line ridge to cover their play at the enemy's base. People got broken of that habit by the defense turrets. And no we have teams that gleefully ignore the terrain, as evidenced by your staggering claims of the map being "featureless".

Ok then, you will have to find second opinions then on it being considered "featureless". Also, ask WHY people don't use 90% of the map. The answer may surprise you! Or you could do science yourself and get a team to go to these obscure parts of the map.

[Escef]

NotMwHighlander, on 03 February 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Ok then, you will have to find second opinions then on it being considered "featureless". Also, ask WHY people don't use 90% of the map. The answer may surprise you! Or you could do science yourself and get a team to go to these obscure parts of the map.

Hold up... Why the f*** is it MY job to find people that agree with YOU? Go get your own group of cheerleaders, don't ask me to hunt them down for ya'.

[Tony Benoit]

Escef, on 03 February 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

Hold up... Why the f*** is it MY job to find people that agree with YOU? Go get your own group of cheerleaders, don't ask me to hunt them down for ya'.

Why do you feel people would agree with me more than you? I think I found a problem here in your argument.

[zortesh]

Davers, on 03 February 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

Well, that is the problem right there. People don't use 90% of Alpine because the majority of players are not interested in tactics and maneuvering. They just want to walk right up and shoot robots. In Skirmish, the hill can easily be totally ignored. Players can choose to set up anywhere else on the map- but they don't. They will walk in a straight line, in full view of every sniper and LRM boat, right to the red triangles. This is why we have the maps we have. Players want fast games. They are more interested in the quantity of games, than the quality.

I agree with this.

Given i used to occasionally convince people to engage elsewhere, but that inevitibly required waiting till the enemy got bored, it did tend to lead to easy victorys as groups don't get all bored at once.

But since the clans, and quirks, most of the map is Hitable from that dammable hill.

Used to hide behind the hotel 6 ridge-line and wait, but waiting 5-10 minutes so you can fight on a different part of the map is frustrating, especially since the hill really isn't that hard to push.

terra therma suffers the same problem as alpine, only with the bonus that its super defensible position can't guard the base.

alpine base needs moving so it can't be covered fropm that hill and assult would pklay out different.

As for cw, it would be interesting seeing some fortified base in the middle of a plain.

Maybe a star fortress type thing.