97 replies to this topic

[CrushLibs]

spawn area should have turrets that the drop ships place as they drop mechs.
If the mobile turrets are destroyed more are brought in by the next drop ship.
This would make the spawn campers a target from the ships and from the ground turrets.
Have a choice kill the dropping mech or destroy the new turrets taking out your torso or legs.

You could still spawn camp from range like PPC LRM GAUSS but would take more skill than standing 5m from their drop point and killing them in .0005 secs.

[Dock Steward]

CrushLibs, on 14 February 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

spawn area should have turrets that the drop ships place as they drop mechs.
If the mobile turrets are destroyed more are brought in by the next drop ship.
This would make the spawn campers a target from the ships and from the ground turrets.
Have a choice kill the dropping mech or destroy the new turrets taking out your torso or legs.

You could still spawn camp from range like PPC LRM GAUSS but would take more skill than standing 5m from their drop point and killing them in .0005 secs.

Why not just give the dropships themselves more weapons, as someone suggested? Much simpler and basically the same effect...

[Fate 6]

I've been spawn killed and I've done the spawn killing. The dropship spawns on Sulphurous and Boreal allow for easy kills on the defenders. It's super easy to counterattack Sulphurous because you can push Gamma - the second you kill a person who spawns at the closest dropship spawn you can just wait 30 seconds and repeatedly kill them as they drop again. Likewise if the game is close at the end and the attackers set up a group at the spawn they make the last few defender mechs pointless, which encourages defenders to play a bit recklessly to make sure they can actually use all of their mechs.

[Fate 6]

Dock Steward, on 14 February 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

Why not just give the dropships themselves more weapons, as someone suggested? Much simpler and basically the same effect...

Giving the defenders more firepower isn't an effective way of solving the problem. The new map, Hellboure, solves the problem the right way - all the defenders spawn near each other (compounded dropship power) and in an area slightly away and sheltered from the Omega, so the attackers have to make a conscious choice between spawn killing and actually winning.

[NeoAres]

Fate 6, on 14 February 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Giving the defenders more firepower isn't an effective way of solving the problem. The new map, Hellboure, solves the problem the right way - all the defenders spawn near each other (compounded dropship power) and in an area slightly away and sheltered from the Omega, so the attackers have to make a conscious choice between spawn killing and actually winning.

I figured someone would mention this, as I had been thinking it myself as I posted. Why do the defenders need to be dropped by dropships at all? Have them come out of a hangar instead and all is solved. I mean, it doesn't make sense for the defenders' dropships to leave--there's no orbital gun scaring them away. Realistically they'd be circling over the battlefield wrecking all the attackers. A hangar is a much more sensible deployment method.

[Dock Steward]

Fate 6, on 14 February 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

Giving the defenders more firepower isn't an effective way of solving the problem. The new map, Hellboure, solves the problem the right way - all the defenders spawn near each other (compounded dropship power) and in an area slightly away and sheltered from the Omega, so the attackers have to make a conscious choice between spawn killing and actually winning.

I agree that more firepower isn't the best solution: I was merely saying that giving the dropships more guns would be better and easier to do than making them drop turrets.

If I was going to advocate anything, it would be selectable dropzones.

[InspectorG]

James Griffin, on 05 February 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

It makes the game incredibly discouraging when you are being dropped partially shut down in to a group of people shooting at you, and your torso armour is almost gone before the display even comes up or you can return fire, you need to add safe drop zones or a different way of spawning defending 'mechs or something. And because the drop zones are pretty much on top of the objectives it isn't like the other team has a choice.

Not to sound rude, but if you are spawn camped, your team completely game away any initiative to the defenders.

Attackers need to PUSH to keep the defense on the defense. If you stop to camp at the gates you are not applying enough pressure. Unless the attackers have the generators blown and omega is down to 1/4 and attackers are farming.

CW =/= Solo pug. 2 different games.

[Mystere]

[InspectorG]

Dock Steward, on 14 February 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

Why not just give the dropships themselves more weapons, as someone suggested? Much simpler and basically the same effect...

Spawn campers would just wait just outside of the dropships gun range. Same result would happen.

Essentially, if you are getting camped, you already lost the match because the defenders dont see you as a threat to omega.

[Dock Steward]

InspectorG, on 14 February 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

Spawn campers would just wait just outside of the dropships gun range. Same result would happen.

Essentially, if you are getting camped, you already lost the match because the defenders dont see you as a threat to omega.

Yup, already clarified my position.

[Malleus011]

Spawn Camping and Base Rushing both rob the opposing team of the chance to play the game, and are therefore not fun to play. In order to keep your server population to a viable level, you'll need the game to still be fun even for the losers, and that means eliminating tactics that deny the losing team the chance to play - the chance, as it were, to have fun.

[FupDup]

The best suggestion I've seen goes like this:

• When you start the match, you only have 10 minutes instead of 30.
  
• When the attacking team destroys any generator, they are rewarded with an additional 20 minutes.

What this does is make it so that if the attacking team has no hope of winning whatsoever, the match ends 20 minutes sooner than it normally would. If they're able to make it up to a generator, it's safe to assume that they can put up at least somewhat of a fight.

[Mystere]

FupDup, on 14 February 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

The best suggestion I've seen goes like this:

• When you start the match, you only have 10 minutes instead of 30.
  
• When the attacking team destroys any generator, they are rewarded with an additional 20 minutes.

What this does is make it so that if the attacking team has no hope of winning whatsoever, the match ends 20 minutes sooner than it normally would. If they're able to make it up to a generator, it's safe to assume that they can put up at least somewhat of a fight.

That does not work for attackers that have decided to win via attrition.

[Dock Steward]

FupDup, on 14 February 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

The best suggestion I've seen goes like this:

• When you start the match, you only have 10 minutes instead of 30.
  
• When the attacking team destroys any generator, they are rewarded with an additional 20 minutes.

What this does is make it so that if the attacking team has no hope of winning whatsoever, the match ends 20 minutes sooner than it normally would. If they're able to make it up to a generator, it's safe to assume that they can put up at least somewhat of a fight.

That kinda eliminates a strategy I've seen budding lately: which is to slow play as the attacker and try to use attrition. I actually really like that more people are trying out this tactic. I wouldn't want to discourage it, personally.

Edit: Damn you Mystere!

Edited by Dock Steward, 14 February 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[Fate 6]

FupDup, on 14 February 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

The best suggestion I've seen goes like this:

• When you start the match, you only have 10 minutes instead of 30.
  
• When the attacking team destroys any generator, they are rewarded with an additional 20 minutes.

What this does is make it so that if the attacking team has no hope of winning whatsoever, the match ends 20 minutes sooner than it normally would. If they're able to make it up to a generator, it's safe to assume that they can put up at least somewhat of a fight.

Mystere, on 14 February 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

That does not work for attackers that have decided to win via attrition.

^
The problem my drop group often has on attack is that we are pushing in slowly and methodically but we run out of time before we can use our last 12 mech wave. I really do like the idea of generators adding time, and maybe the game should be something like 20 minutes with each generator adding 5-10 minutes? That way a good attrition offense might be able to slowly break the defense and actually succeed through attrition.

[Trashhead]

I rarely play CW, so my experience is limited.
I was spawn-camped,
i was farmed,
and i also participated in spawn-camping (which i too didn't like; i like to fight, not to slaughter)


I think the problem is rooted (like other problems, like the Light-Rush) in the game-mode itself.
I don't blame players if the exploit the game-mode (which basically only means that they are aware of the limits of the game-mode and are operating within these limits).


I am talking about respawn.

As i just finished replying to THIS thread:
Make Dropship Mode Available In Other Game Modes,
where i described in great detail why i think respawn creates - all in all - bad (or better: less good) gameplay,
i will just leave the link here.

It's all in there if you care, my post is the second one in the thread.


See you on the battlefield, gentleman!

[CrushLibs]

You can hide from the dropship and come out of cover to slaughter the mech that just dropped.

The turrets would give more overall cover and keep the force from advancing to the drop area.

[Malleus011]

If PGI wants CW to be successful, then the OP is right on - they have to eliminate spawn camping, light rushes, and any other strategy which denies either team the ability to have fun - and in this game, the fun to be had is fighting your 'mech. Anything that keeps you from fighting your 'mech will discourage the player from spending time in the game, and therefore money ON the game. Being spawn camped prevents players from getting to play, which is ultimately bad for the game as a whole.

In effect, you have to make losing a match of CW fun on some level in order to populate the game. If casual players can't participate in CW and have fun, the game dies, and the hardcore players who are defending spawn camping will have no game to play.

This isn't to say the game should be easy mode, or that they're doing something wrong by spawn camping. They're playing the mission PGI designed, and playing it to win, as they should. The burden is on PGI to develop a game mode that allows the greatest number of players to have fun - whether they win or lose.

[Wildstreak]

Alistair Winter, on 14 February 2015 - 12:43 AM, said:

If you're in an organized group and you're getting steamrolled to the point of spawn camping, you guys have some issues to sort out.

If you're pugging in CW, you have to realize you're swimming with the sharks. You're basically food for big units to farm.

Cw has many flaws, this isn't one.

It is, easiest fix is a Surrender or Retreat option not just for CW, it would fix matches in the Usual Queue where someone runs away to shutdown or a small team finds itself vastly outnumbered. Been desired since before CW, good combat simulators have it.

[Mystere]

Fate 6, on 14 February 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

The problem my drop group often has on attack is that we are pushing in slowly and methodically but we run out of time before we can use our last 12 mech wave. I really do like the idea of generators adding time, and maybe the game should be something like 20 minutes with each generator adding 5-10 minutes? That way a good attrition offense might be able to slowly break the defense and actually succeed through attrition.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Once a team has decided to go for attrition, requiring them to destroy generators just to get extra minutes will just be a distraction. It's just another extra mechanic that I feel is unnecessary.

Now if those extra minutes are to be added to the original 30 minutes ...