142 replies to this topic

[Gattsus]

Aethon, on 07 February 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

I call them Wonderbolts. The Steiner fan in me wants to call them Wunderbolts, though.

Winderbolts(?)
ThunderWin(?)

[xe N on]

outside cw the 9S is not very common. What does that tell us. Its the map and gamemode not the mech.

[Shredhead]

[Ursh]

Man I read the complaints and I broke out my 9S, loaded with a 270std, lots of dhs, 3xERPPC in the torsos, and months of rust at playing MWO.

I can fire 50% shots all day, whereas with a real ERPPC I don't fire unless I have the shot for sure. The 9S just runs so cool with ERPPCs that I can unload them all day, twist and shield with those huge arms, and in general pretend I"m a much better player than I actually am when I'm using normal weapons on mechs that aren't ridiculously overquirked.

[Mawai]

Duke Nedo, on 07 February 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

It was good already after the 1 St quirk pass, then they doubled the heat bonuses.... I play mostly is and this is the only obvious overquirk IMO. Roll back to 25% heat and it's in a good place...

Actually, even 40% heat would probably leave it good but not OP ... drop it to 25% and the mech probably becomes mediocre and pretty useless again. I've overheated my 9S even with its current quirks ... it can be very effective ... and it is probably a bit overpowered.

I'll also note that I have done just as well in my 5SS as my 9S ... and I have seen folks do better than either of these in Stormcrows or Timberwolves. Both Timberwolves and Stormcrows seem also generally OP but the folks who want nerfs for the 9S rarely seem to also beg for nerfs for these mechs ... which both seem better than the 9S.

[Ursh]

Mawai, on 07 February 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Actually, even 40% heat would probably leave it good but not OP ... drop it to 25% and the mech probably becomes mediocre and pretty useless again. I've overheated my 9S even with its current quirks ... it can be very effective ... and it is probably a bit overpowered.

I'll also note that I have done just as well in my 5SS as my 9S ... and I have seen folks do better than either of these in Stormcrows or Timberwolves. Both Timberwolves and Stormcrows seem also generally OP but the folks who want nerfs for the 9S rarely seem to also beg for nerfs for these mechs ... which both seem better than the 9S.

I don't have a TW but I have three stormcrows. I think the Thunderbolt 9S is head and shoulders above it, because I can deliver 20-30 points of PPFLD over and over and over again if the enemy team is shooting the guy next to me, and I can hill hump snipe if they're heads are screwed on and they're returning fire when I unload. In a 9S, you can throw out way more sustained, impactful PPFLD at range than any other mech, more or less, and the 65 ton weight is perfect for CW, because you can have three of them in your deck plus a 35 ton IS light gunboat just to mix things up.

[Wildstreak]

Fate 6, on 07 February 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

^
But also, coulda just given those PPC quirks to a DIFFERENT Thunderbolt. If the 5S or the 5SE had gotten those PPC quirks (disregarding cannon loadouts here for sake of discussion) we wouldn't be in as much of a pickle because the Thunderbolt wouldn't have the Right Torso of Exodia. A HUGE amount of the issue is that right torso. I think the quirk numbers are a bit high too, but regardless of numbers the current setup makes the TDR-9S a better PPC mech than the K2 will ever be.

It is actually the combination of Heat Quirk + Shoulder Mounts for 2 of the PPCs.

I knew how good the 9S was when I got one from that contest, I tried 2 standard PPC in the shoulder plus 4ML once and despite being a 'sub-standard' player, I could scare the bejeezus out of people, poke the shoulder RT PPCs like a Jager/Jackie ridge poking arm weapons plus tank like a boss. A 9S can tank on both arms, nothing in the Ballistic Left, don't care if I lose the ML in the RA, tougher than a Centurion tanking on its shield arm, more mobile than some Awesomes tanking on their shield arms.

It'll be fun when people catch up on the 5S, 3LL in the LT. No shoulder mounts but 3 tanking locations in both arms and RT.
25% range buff roughly just beyond standard PPC
25% cooldown buff under standard ML before buffs
25% heat buff, 3LL have about the heat of 1 ERPPC
12.5% duration buff better than non-buffed MLs
All you need is aiming skills and heat management, 27 points where you want it more often than not.

[Brody319]

several people IS and Clan say they need to tone the damn quirks down on that thing.

but several IS whiners believe its the "only way they can win against the clans" probably because they are bad.
and Russ seems to agree, so just play PUG where the thunderbolt is bad.

[Ultimax]

@OP:


Let me know the time and the place you would like for me to organize a coordinated 12 man firing line of CERLLAS Clan mechs so you can face that and understand that you are misguided in thinking the problem lies with the Thunderbolt 9S.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 07 February 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[Mcgral18]

HARDKOR, on 07 February 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

We're a few days out from everyone running 2 er ppc panthers.

The tears shall flow like rain.

10 TrueDubs with a 250 engine with 2 11.25 heat ERPPCs?

It's hot. It also doesn't have JJs; you'll need to lose a couple TrueDubs.
A 225 lets you have 3 JJs and move 113.


It spikes you 40% with 10 TrueDubs and lets you fire 3(6 PPCs) times, overheating on the third. 9S can do 14(28 PPCs) with 2 ERPPCs...


Well, whenever the Clam quirks come, I fully expect the NopeVa-A and Badder Prime to get at least 40% heat reductions with ERPPCs.
After all, it's perfectly balanced and not at all over the top.

Edited by Mcgral18, 07 February 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Mcgral18, on 07 February 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well, whenever the Clam quirks come, I fully expect the NopeVa-A and Badder Prime to get at least 40% heat reductions with ERPPCs.
After all, it's perfectly balanced and not at all over the top.

and it is totally what the Nova nees to ot be an instant pop of shot LOL

I really start to wonder who is assisting russ in judging what quirks mechs are going to get.

[wanderer]

Well, duh. It's that good, you're in CW, people are going to use the best available. It'd be like wondering why everyone was in 'Phract-3D's and Shadow Hawks back in the poptart era: If it's good and stands out, people will figure it out and use it in quantity.

What should make people concerned is that Clan players are complaining in some cases as well- and that means that finally, that level of quirkening was enough to make someone consider an IS chassis as OP vs. things like Timber Wolves, the previous champ of the heavy tier. That points to a Clan vs. IS imbalance.

[Brody319]

Adder, warhawk, and Summoner should get PPC quirks.
Kitfox, Nova, and Gargoyle should get laser quirks.
Lynx, Ferret, Maddog should get structural quirks and general laser and missile quirks.

[Ghogiel]

Mcgral18, on 07 February 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

Well, whenever the Clam quirks come, I fully expect the NopeVa-A and Badder Prime to get at least 40% heat reductions with ERPPCs.
After all, it's perfectly balanced and not at all over the top.

TDR would still be better than the nova. Ok the JJ is nice and you can probably pop a little, I just don't see it because it is awkward and low on tonnage. While the TDR ridge humps like the old 4 PPC STK.

TBR is still king though by a lot.

[Lily from animove]

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

Adder, warhawk, and Summoner should get PPC quirks.
Kitfox, Nova, and Gargoyle should get laser quirks.
Lynx, Ferret, Maddog should get structural quirks and general laser and missile quirks.

No nova does not need laserrquirks, it needs hitbpoints it has the same problem the dragon had before quirkening.

lynx will always suck by not havign torso hardpoints, blow the oversized arms off, and bye all weapons. it also has only a few hardpoints considering it's speed. it is doomed with more JJ's than it actually needs and a fixed BAP. would it have 2 or 3 more E hardpoints maxbe 1 in each torso and 4 less JJ's it would suddenly play in an entirely different league.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 February 2015 - 11:01 AM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Ultimatum X, on 07 February 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

@OP:


Let me know the time and the place you would like for me to organize a coordinated 12 man firing line of CERLLAS Clan mechs so you can face that and understand that you are misguided in thinking the problem lies with the Thunderbolt 9S.

vs a 12 man coordinated 3xERPPC ?

I have my money on the 30 dmg erppcs that don't have the crappy laser hit reg.

[Mcgral18]

Ghogiel, on 07 February 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

TDR would still be better than the nova. Ok the JJ is nice and you can probably pop a little, I just don't see it because it is awkward and low on tonnage. While the TDR ridge humps like the old 4 PPC STK.

TBR is still king though by a lot.

Yep, they won't be great. They just come stock with two ERPPCs.

Depends how PGI does Clam quirks, though. Do you need 8/8 'pods for big quirks? Nova-A only has 3 hardpoints, Badder Prime only 2. 50% in those cases is pretty reasonable, due to the chassis' in question and lack of small weapon boating.

If it's per arm; as in straight up giving the Nova-A arm 20% less heat, it will just be used as an arm shield for a Prime arm. Or 10% per arm, with an additional 10% bonus if it takes 8/8 'pods.


Yes, the TimberGod certainly shouldn't get anything. Even that 5% less heat seems odd, since the Badder doesn't get anything like that, despite being worse in every way.

Edited by Mcgral18, 07 February 2015 - 11:04 AM.

[Brody319]

Lily from animove, on 07 February 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

No nova does not need laserrquirks, it needs hitbpoints it has the same problem the dragon had before quirkening.

lynx will always suck by not havign torso hardpoints, blow the oversized arms off, and bye all weapons. it also has only a few hardpoints considering it's speed. it is doomed with more JJ's than it actually needs and a fixed BAP. would it have 2 or 3 more E hardpoints maxbe 1 in each torso and 4 less JJ's it would suddenly play in an entirely different league.

Nova is a giant gorrilla of a mech, it should be a bit smaller than it currently is and with some hitbox reworkings it could survive longer, but when you overheat and make yourself and easily target no amount of armor and structure quirks will help. so it should get some laser quirks so it isn't melting itself when it fires half its weapons.

[Lily from animove]

Brody319, on 07 February 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

Nova is a giant gorrilla of a mech, it should be a bit smaller than it currently is and with some hitbox reworkings it could survive longer, but when you overheat and make yourself and easily target no amount of armor and structure quirks will help. so it should get some laser quirks so it isn't melting itself when it fires half its weapons.

when you overheat you just already made a basic mistake, you don't eve need to play matches for lerning heat control, you can do this in the testing ground.

you can't rewpork hitboxes, it has the same legs as the SCR so this size is rather fixed. And so armor and structure quirks will help to survive longer. Also something like 10% accelertion decelleration will help to reduce the time of exposure.

Edited by Lily from animove, 07 February 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Ursh]

I fire 2xERPPC in my mastered stormcrow, and watch the heat spike through the roof, and slowly go down.

I fire 2xERPPC in my non-elited Tbolt 9S and the heat barely spikes, and disappears extremely fast.

Which one was supposed to be technologically superior again?