68 replies to this topic

[guardian wolf]

Gendo, on 17 July 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

impressive guess! mainly early mesopotamia. and i realy want to talk to the guy who ordered the bomb drops on eridu during the gulf war - i wanted to DIG there some day. thats gone now...

and please dont get me wrong: i was not upset but serious with "i dont understand it" - because i tried and failed.
i see such things like a great and beautiful sword, crafted by a master, ment for symbolic uses. if its stolen by a insane maniac who slays countless people with it (or in its name), how can i associate the dead with the sword or even the smith?
but its something completely different when the madman would craft/buy the sword for his insane plan - in this case i could understand the reaction...

My point exactly.

[tyrone dunkirk]

Gendo, on 17 July 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

then you simply dont get the joke:
an educated mind should know that the swastika is a ancient indic symbol of PEACE!
i never understand why people associate a millenia old peace symbol with a bunch of stupid gangsters ruling over germany for not even 20 jears - just because they found this joke funny too.
with the same argument we could start banning crosses...

Really? You really don't know why it's associated? Yeah, anyone who's got to much time on their hands will know that it's an ancient peace symbol, but it was used by an evil man and his party. Why would anyone associate it with a man who condoned the genocide of a whole group of people, and waged war on, essentially, the free world? Gee, I really don't know.

[Jiri Starrider]

Gendo, on 17 July 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

then you simply dont get the joke:
an educated mind should know that the swastika is a ancient indic symbol of PEACE!
i never understand why people associate a millenia old peace symbol with a bunch of stupid gangsters ruling over germany for not even 20 jears - just because they found this joke funny too.
with the same argument we could start banning crosses...

Sidra, on 17 July 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

You sir deserve an Urbanmech! I am glad I'm not the only one who gets a bit peeved when people are like ERMEGERD SWASTIKER! And instantly say it's a hate symbol o.e Yes what the Nazi's did was ungodly terrible and deserved to be destroyed, but really people, look up your symbols before you slander then. It's like people thinking Jesus was the only person crucified (i.e for people who don't know, Ceasar did that to thousands of people also)

One slight difference.

Nazis took a symbol of peace, (and a great many other things, but usually good) and perverted it to western eyes to a symbol of death.
Christianity took a symbol of death and turned it into a symbol of peace.

I'm sure some one out there use the cross to represent it's darker meaning, but the message is probably lost to anyone they haven't (at length) explained it to.

[Sidra]

Jiri Starrider, on 17 July 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

One slight difference.

Nazis took a symbol of peace, (and a great many other things, but usually good) and perverted it to western eyes to a symbol of death.
Christianity took a symbol of death and turned it into a symbol of peace.

I'm sure some one out there use the cross to represent it's darker meaning, but the message is probably lost to anyone they haven't (at length) explained it to.

Hmm true, I guess with me I try to see the original meanings in all things I know about and not what destroyed them, though I can see some things through that manner of "why did you have to go and ruin that -.-" like "Hope and change" or "yes you can" I feel my stomach twist hearing someone say those lines XD

[Tannhauser Gate]

Gendo, on 17 July 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

then you simply dont get the joke:
an educated mind should know that the swastika is a ancient indic symbol of PEACE!
i never understand why people associate a millenia old peace symbol with a bunch of stupid gangsters ruling over germany for not even 20 jears - just because they found this joke funny too.
with the same argument we could start banning crosses...

Nice. While the symbol itself is ancient, it's use here is purely to glorify a fantasy take on nazi armor. Yes, I can appreciate the fascination with WWII history and admiration for german WWII hardware, and even generals and u-boat commanders etc.. who were legendary... but... the symbol used here in this context encompasses the crimes of Nazi's. Its a symbol of fear, facism, oppression, murder, and inhumanity on a scale only matched by the Stalinest regime. There is a reason why its banned in many countries.. because rightist factions use it in the context of hate... not for peace as it was used in the ancient past. Perception of a symbol is more relevant than the symbol itself. Regardless of what you or anyone knows its history to be, to millions of living people (and millions more who died) around the world its the symbol of hate.. period.

I dare you to walk into a synagogue and wave it around and try to tell them its a symbol of peace. They will listen and nod perhaps but they know youre an insensitive instigator for doing it. Symbol of peace? perhaps.. but its not to the last 3 generations of people around the world.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 17 July 2012 - 08:55 PM.

[Sidra]

LakeDaemon, on 17 July 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Nice. While the symbol itself is ancient, it's use here is purely to glorify a fantasy take on nazi armor. Yes, I can appreciate the fascination with WWII history and admiration for german WWII hardware, and even generals and u-boat commanders etc.. who were legendary... but... the symbol used here in this context encompasses the crimes of Nazi's. Its a symbol of fear, facism, oppression, murder, and inhumanity on a scale only matched by the Stalinest regime. There is a reason why its banned in many countries.. because rightist factions use it in the context of hate... not for peace as it was used in the ancient past. Perception of a symbol is more relevant than the symbol itself. Regardless of what you or anyone knows its history to be, to millions of living people (and millions more who died) around the world its the symbol of hate.. period.

I dare you to walk into a synagogue and wave it around and try to tell them its a symbol of peace. They will listen and nod perhaps but they know youre an insensitive instigator for doing it. Symbol of peace? perhaps.. but its not to the last 3 generations of people around the world.

I find it kinda funny though when hate groups who say they are "on the political right" use it as that symbol, mearly the fact with how the Nazi's came into power was through unions and a Socialist movement, which is like, extreme left wing XD ANYWHO Yeah about that HG and it''s lack of lawsuit, why isn't this happening

[Tannhauser Gate]

Sidra, on 17 July 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

I find it kinda funny though when hate groups who say they are "on the political right" use it as that symbol, mearly the fact with how the Nazi's came into power was through unions and a Socialist movement, which is like, extreme left wing XD ANYWHO Yeah about that HG and it''s lack of lawsuit, why isn't this happening

iirc, the acronym "nazi" stands for "national socialist..." which then became fascism. Most "socialist revolutions" wound up as a fascist regimes of some kind.

[Jiri Starrider]

Sidra, on 17 July 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Hmm true, I guess with me I try to see the original meanings in all things I know about and not what destroyed them, though I can see some things through that manner of "why did you have to go and ruin that -.-" like "Hope and change" or "yes you can" I feel my stomach twist hearing someone say those lines XD

Or "Read my lips, no new taxes"

LakeDaemon, on 18 July 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

iirc, the acronym "nazi" stands for "national socialist..." which then became fascism. Most "socialist revolutions" wound up as a fascist regimes of some kind.

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei to be precise. National Socialist German Workers' Party in English. The wiki article has a blurb as to how the pronunciation worked into Nazi.

As far as the name =/= the message, it's simple marketing. Look at the various "Democratic Republic of's". Nothing Democratic about how they choose leaders and it's certainly not a republic either. But people buy packaging, not content, so....

LakeDaemon, on 17 July 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Nice. While the symbol itself is ancient, it's use here is purely to glorify a fantasy take on nazi armor. Yes, I can appreciate the fascination with WWII history and admiration for german WWII hardware, and even generals and u-boat commanders etc.. who were legendary... but... the symbol used here in this context encompasses the crimes of Nazi's. Its a symbol of fear, facism, oppression, murder, and inhumanity on a scale only matched by the Stalinest regime. There is a reason why its banned in many countries.. because rightist factions use it in the context of hate... not for peace as it was used in the ancient past. Perception of a symbol is more relevant than the symbol itself. Regardless of what you or anyone knows its history to be, to millions of living people (and millions more who died) around the world its the symbol of hate.. period.

I dare you to walk into a synagogue and wave it around and try to tell them its a symbol of peace. They will listen and nod perhaps but they know youre an insensitive instigator for doing it. Symbol of peace? perhaps.. but its not to the last 3 generations of people around the world.

Agreed

Edit - is it possible to get in trouble for going offtopic on an offtopic post?

Edited by Jiri Starrider, 18 July 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[TizZ]

I supose If fasa used the comic book variant MARVEL would sue them as well so prob better left alone ...and forget all about it lol .