594 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

kapusta11, on 12 February 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

Because 9S and Wubverine were so OP.

Did you conveniently forget the part that when the large merc groups went IS en mass, the Clans suffered reversals?

[Leigus]

Love the Thunderbolt-9S changes. This way, it's still a deadly ******* but not nearly as insane as before.

Battlemaster-1D and Battlemaster-3M quirks make me sad though. I feel they'd be much better off with the same -10% Heat Gen quirk that the Battlemaster-1G has. Giving them all PPC quirks is good (I've had the best performance out of builds using 2x PPCs) but the Battlemaster-3M in particular is in a really bad position to take advantage of the quirks simply because of how hot 15-30 heat per volley is. For reference, it had that quirk previously to this patch and 3 / the 6 Stalkers (2013's "PPCs of Doom!" mech) have some quirk to reduce energy weapon heat. With how underwhelming Battlemasters are right now, is that really too much to ask?

[Fate 6]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

Huh. Guess reading comprehension isn't par with your gaming skills.

Spell it out. Just because the options aren't all the ones you and ultimatum would like? Not the same as taking away options, especially as so many of the previous quirks were so over the top as to be the mandatory build.

These so-called options you're talking about are the same no matter what quirks you have. However, we had a unique LPL mech instead of the new redundant mech with LL (CN9-AL basically has the same build). If the LPL quirks move to the 7K, that mech will invariably lose its potent SRM6 quirks, thus removing our nice fast JJ SRM brawler. I'm not really seeing how changing the quirks opens up options, it just makes our strong builds less enticing - and that doesn't mean the "worse" builds are better at all than they were before.
We lost a unique mech setup and got a boring generic redundant one. I'm failing to see how that's good for the game.

[Choppah]

Argh, why do the Orion V and P not have quirks designed to use both ballistic slots? That is all I really wanted from the 2nd Quirk pass. Would 25% to 35% cooldown reduction on UAC5 or AC5 been so terrible? Hell, even swapping the -40% CD of LB10X from the M would be preferable (and super hilarious) than a single large ballistic. Orions are barely tier 4 (really tier 5 except for P and K), they don't have the tonnage to mount large weapons in each of their limited hardpoints like an Atlas can. Please reconsider these quirks, I would love the Orion to brought back from near extinction like the TDR.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Killian Hook, on 12 February 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

I'm just glade to finally see a Griffin with a PPC bonus. It was a LRM/PPC mech, and not a SRM mech. Glad all the lore and structure of Battletech is not going out the window

But there's a reason no one runs Griffins with LRMs and PPCs. Quirking mechs for nonviable stock builds, just for the sanctity of lore, doesn't help anyone.

These mechs will just be used less, which goes against the purpose of why quirks were even put into play.

Edited by Kevjack, 12 February 2015 - 07:20 PM.

[Crotch RockIt]

It seems kinda silly that the Locust will have the same amount of leg structure as a 50 ton mech now.....

[Dawnstealer]

Quote

[color=#959595]BJ-Arrow[/color]
[color=#959595]Specialty[/color]
[color=#959595]Additional Structure (RT&LT) +11[/color]
[color=#959595]Mgun Range +20%[/color]
[color=#959595]Ballistic Weapon Range +20%[/color]
[color=#959595]Large Pulse Laser Duration -10%[/color]
[color=#959595]Laser Duration -10%[/color]
[color=#959595]Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%[/color]
[color=#959595]Energy Weapon Range +12.5%[/color]
[color=#959595]Torso yaw speed +25%[/color]

There you go

[El Bandito]

Pretty damn ironic that Jager-A--which is designed to boat missiles--now has better Gauss/AC20 cheese quirks than the S or the DD. SRM bomb Jager-A could now be viable as well...

JM6-A
Specialty
Additional Structure (LT&RT) +7
Ballistic Weapon Velocity +10%
Ballistic Weapon Range +20%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +20%
Missile Weapon Heat Gen -10%
Laser Duration -10%

Edited by El Bandito, 12 February 2015 - 07:59 PM.

[Scendore]

Typical reaction from you guys. Hear enough moaning and you make changes such to the point the mech and or weapon system becomes worthless again.

[Karpi]

I don't know if its been said, but I honestly like general quircks as oppossed to specific weapons quirks, that way you see more build types, as opossed to boated certain weapons on certain mechs.

[Xetelian]

Quote

SPR-5D


[Energy Weapon Cooldown +10%
Energy Weapon Range +10%
Laser Duration -10%

SDR-5K

ER-Large Cooldown +25%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +25%
ER-Large Duration -12.5%
Laser Weapon Duration -12.5%
Ballistic Weapon Range +45%

the 5D gets 3 quirks?

Edited by Xetelian, 12 February 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

I find it interesting they felt they needed to 'balance' the TDR-9S because they were effective against the Clans (and, let's be honest here, that is the only reason this happened), which happens to be the entire goal of the quirk system, yet the Clan mechs with similar complaints about being overpowered such as the Stormcrow remained unchanged.

If complaints are the driving force behind nerfing the performance of mechs, then this is one-sided as there are just as many if not more complaints against Clan mechs which remained untouched. If the driving force is the performance of the mech against the opposing faction, then the nerf was not needed as the TDR-9S was doing exactly what it should have been doing.

Either way, I'm mystified why these changes were seen as needed or in any way good for the 'balance' between Inner Sphere and Clan units. Are Clan units going to have their DPS dropped to the same level as the Inner Sphere? If not, then the idea the TDR needed a DPS drop is unfounded.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 12 February 2015 - 07:55 PM.

[FupDup]

Xetelian, on 12 February 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

the 5D gets 3 quirks?

What's sad is that they didn't touch the 5V at all, which is still probably the most worthless mech in the whole game.

[oldradagast]

Am I the only one who finds it "funny" in a sad way that the shuffling of the quirks happened after people spent a good chunk of money on the heavily discounted weapon modules... only to see that their mechs now have different quirks that require different modules... Ugh... quirks have become their own shifting meta. Shuffle them around, turn mechs into different things, and get people to spend more money on new mechs and weapon modules.

I wonder how long this pass of quirks will last?

[Fate 6]

El Bandito, on 12 February 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

Pretty damn ironic that Jager-A--which is designed to boat missiles--now has the better dual Gauss/AC20 cheese quirks than the S or the DD. SRM bomb Jager-A could be viable as well...

JM6-A
Specialty
Additional Structure (LT&RT) +7
Ballistic Weapon Velocity +10%
Ballistic Weapon Range +20%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +20%
Missile Weapon Heat Gen -10%
Laser Duration -10%

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eb67cc9f50973ff
Plus ammo of course. I imagine that build will hurt a lot.

[El Bandito]

Oh God, Huginn is buffed.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 February 2015 - 08:00 PM.

[Fate 6]

Jakob Knight, on 12 February 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

I find it interesting they felt they needed to 'balance' the TDR-9S because they were effective against the Clans (and, let's be honest here, that is the only reason this happened), which happens to be the entire goal of the quirk system, yet the Clan mechs with similar complaints about being overpowered such as the Stormcrow remained unchanged.

If complaints are the driving force behind nerfing the performance of mechs, then this is one-sided as there are just as many if not more complaints against Clan mechs which remained untouched. If the driving force is the performance of the mech against the opposing faction, then the nerf was not needed as the TDR-9S was doing exactly what it should have been doing.

Either way, I'm mystified why these changes were seen as needed or in any way good for the 'balance' between Inner Sphere and Clan units. Are Clan units going to have their DPS dropped to the same level as the Inner Sphere? If not, then the idea the TDR needed a DPS drop is unfounded.

You entirely missed the point. It had no weakness and it outperformed all other IS mechs. It's balanced as a sniper now, and can't brawl as effectively as before, though it can certainly still defend itself up close. It's on the same level as clans now, whereas before it was actually better in the hands of a good pilot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

These so-called options you're talking about are the same no matter what quirks you have. However, we had a unique LPL mech instead of the new redundant mech with LL (CN9-AL basically has the same build). If the LPL quirks move to the 7K, that mech will invariably lose its potent SRM6 quirks, thus removing our nice fast JJ SRM brawler. I'm not really seeing how changing the quirks opens up options, it just makes our strong builds less enticing - and that doesn't mean the "worse" builds are better at all than they were before.
We lost a unique mech setup and got a boring generic redundant one. I'm failing to see how that's good for the game.

cool. So as said, because they don't fit your view, they are bad. Duly noted. Not trying to be a {richard cameron} (well, not to you, I'm pretty fed up with the elitist pap from other quarters), but this is a move, to try to nudge more mechs away from a min/max boating meta. Whether you agree with or like that, well, is subjective. The majority of competitive players likely will not. Because they seem to favor cut and dried boating, in general.

For others of us, we play the game because of the Mechwarrior/Battletech IP. And would like mechs to be competitive against each other (which ain't happening overnight) at least RESEMBLING what the mechs are, in more than name.

And just like in previous quirks passes, I'm sure I will run a lot of mechs that don't maximize their quirks. And other people will max them. What is funny is certain folks are making it out like a handful of lore {Godwin's Law} forum warriors hold some unusual sway over Russ. When up until now, most changes (even the initial quirks) were almost all meta/comp oriented.

Perhaps their telemetry was telling them something the 1% doesn't want to hear?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 12 February 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[Ultimax]

Fate 6, on 12 February 2015 - 07:59 PM, said:

You entirely missed the point. It had no weakness and it outperformed all other IS mechs. It's balanced as a sniper now

Here's a recap for all of the people who have poor memory.



TDR-9S: First Quirk Pass
Additional Structure (LT & RT) +10
ER-PPC Heat Generation -12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Generation 12.5%
ER PPC Cooldown +12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
Energy Weapon Range +15%
Laser Duration -15%
Missile Weapon Range +15%


Result? Still not a good mech.


TDR-9S: Second Quirk Pass
Additional Structure L/R Torso +15
ER-PPC Cooldown 12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown 12.5%
ER-PPC Heat Generation -25%
Energy Weapon Heat Generation-25%
ER-PPC Velocity 15%
Laser Duration -15%

Result? Competitive mech, one of the few IS heavies that can stand against IS heavies.


TDR-9S: Third Quirk Pass
Additional Structure (LT&RT) +15
ER-PPC Heat Gen -12.5%
Energy Weapon Heat Gen -12.5%
ER-PPC Cooldown +12.5%
Energy Weapon Cooldown +12.5%
ER-PPC Velocity +30%
Laser Duration -15%
Missile Weapon Cooldown +15%


Back to the exact same -heat gen when no one was using it.


1300m/s projectile speed, is not sufficient for a long range sniping mech, and does not compensate for the loss of -heat gen.

And now it once again has missile quirks, that you can't realistically use running ER PPCs.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 12 February 2015 - 08:11 PM.

[norus]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6a87cde7234b7ba

Don't worry boys, I have created the new wubverine. Med laser as backup which you don't use unless you have to, 39% heat efficiency when not using it. Longer range, much faster, more durable. Only thing lost is burn time and everything being in the wrong arm. All hail glorious new wubcrow.