Quirks won't make them better? **** mechs like the Thunderbolt got quirked and got to the top of the list due to that.
Because unlike some IS mechs, Clan mechs don't have the benefit of hard point inflation. Even though they are omnimechs and should be able to have a few more weapon hard points than the base.
They learned their lesson when it came to overquirking, just look at the modest Panther quirks
The bad clan mechs have locked structure, in complete disregard of the actual game rules that allow omnimechs to be customized (no it does not lose the omnimech ability, read the GD rules), they won't be quirking extra pod space.
The geometry of some clan mechs is not conducive towards staying alive.
They were worse than equivalent IS mechs before the IS mech quirk pass. No way they can keep up with IS mechs now, especially with their current strategy of only applying quirks to omnipods that have fewer than base hard points.
In addition, because the clan mechs are not being treated as actually omnimechs with changeable configurations, but each variant is treated as a separate mech, there is no good reason that we should not be allowed to switch the center torso omnipods.
Fixing bad clan mechs is simple:
Hard point inflation, all Prime variant omnipods that have the space but no hard points (Myst Lynx right torso, Summoner right torso, Warhawk right torso, Kit Fox right torso) should be given a single WILD CARD hard point. The ability to mount one of any weapon system that will fit in the crit spaces. They could even add the restriction that the Wild Card hard point only works when equipped to the Prime Variant
Unlocked Endo Steel and FF upgrade for any mech that doesn't already have both.
There is no need to add any quirks to any clan mechs until after we see how they fair, because if things keep going like this, IS mechs are going to be completely overpowering when Light Fusion engines get added.
Edited by Golden Vulf, 14 February 2015 - 05:22 PM.
i think they should forget about the TBR and SCR and just focus on the other Clan mechs,
once we start seeing more than just TBR and SCR on the battle field we will get a better idea of balance,
Lily from animove, on 14 February 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:
nerfing does not have to mean making it trash, of course when PGI overdoes it this happens, but some slight nerfs are needed.
and no its nto a little powercreep, if you know what the holy clantrinity can pull off, you know that this is not a "little" powercreep we will get if everthign should go to their level.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Can pull off", other then by either in "The right hands", or "Having a good match". In either case, that could be fill in the blank with any mech by anyone, which by the way, I would think is exactly what we want for the game. I would hope that any one player could take any mech and hope to pull off a great game. The only clan mech I have issues with is the SCR. You can pound it over and over, etc, and it's still running round, which is not unlike a Firestarter. I believe that to be a hitreg issue, not anything to do with powercreep. Victors use to be the same way which stopped when they couldn't jj into the clouds. The SCR is a very oddly shaped mech, which I believe helps it get away with being able to live after you just sent 5 nukes after it! For the FS, it's pure speed and size, just like the spider. It makes for a good challenge, and makes things different from x-number of ml and a stick...
"Upping other clan mechs to Timber and Crow levels will inevitably bring more buffs to IS later, the powercreep will grow. Makes my Spider 5K sad. Maybe a compromise, tone down Timber and Crow somewhat, and then buff others to that level?"
Not specifically aiming this at you MikeBend.
Where does it say every other clan mech will be buffed to that level ? Not the first message I see that someone assumes so, just like there is nowhere that says those two mechs won't get somekind of tweaks to tune then down.
Can we all wait to see what will happen before flying off the handle
Edited by Vanguard836, 14 February 2015 - 05:54 PM.
Sorry if I'm coming across to gruff. After the Victor trashing, I'm very touchy when someone says "Nerf". I know people are worried about the low TTK, and fear that it will only get worse if they "Buff" the weaker clan mechs to the level of the Timber. I think the real problem is the number of the hardpoints that the newer mechs have. We now have mechs that have anywhere from 7-16 hardpoints! Sure is different fron a 4G Hunchy! The older IS assults (Victor, Highlander, Atlas) have 4 energy, 1-2 Ballistic, and 2-3 missile. Compare that with a Timber or even worse a Dire. Doesn't take much to see why balancing this mess isn't going to be easy......
Pods with more energy or missile slots should give the mech a higher base heat. Meaning the more weapons you can fit on an omnipod, the higher the base heat you are starting from -- regardless of you filling them all or not.
Vxheous Kerensky, on 13 February 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:
I tried this so called 2 armor in the back of the Tbr once...after a firestarter 1 shot me in the back with 8 small pulse, never again.
You let it stay behind you.
W A R K H A N, on 13 February 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:
These magic hit boxes you speak of on the Timberwolf I've never experienced. I have however been cored in the rear from the front in my Timmy, and I have also Ben cored in the rear from the rear. I've never taken a shot to the rear and have it rev on the front. Maybe my copy of the timberwolf is defective. Wtf PGI?
Note: The amount of surface area on one TBR "front" ST is larger than that of the Awesome's entire front CT.
Keep most of the enemies toward your front and keep moving, and between the motions of your walking animation and your twisting ability, lasers will spread out into nothingness and ballistics would be hard pressed to hit your backside at all at 89 kph.
This was before the TBR was released (during the public test just before). Absolutely no damage. So later on I started doing 5 armor, then 2 armor, and on average I rarely if ever even see 'yellow' rears.
The only time you'll ever have a problem is if you shut down, or as said below if you're hit by a 12 mech firestarter rush.
Compare now to a Victor.
My Victors need a bare minimum of 12 to 14 rear armor to be remotely viable, otherwise it'll die within the first 4 minutes of the typical match. I also frequently have the problem of taking rear damage from the front (a problem I heavily suffer on the Gargoyle too!)
Stormcrow.
My Stormcrow easily gets away with 50 ST front armor and 70 CT front armor with almost no concern about issues behind me. (Note, I also don't torso twist to spread damage; I have no need to).
Shadowhawk
Now the shadowhawk, everything from the very back to about mid-shoulder counts as rear torso. That's a lot. Your typical Shadowhawk dies easily without at least 12 points of armor on each rear torso, leaving you with only 48 to the front for the STs and 60 for the CT front.
Stormcrow: 55 tons: 70 CT front, 50 ST front. (2 per rear)
Shadowhawk 55 tons: 60 CT front, 40 ST front. (12 per rear)
I'm thusly partial to Wolverines, as in addition to being shorter, their backs are smaller, allowing me to channel less to the rear.
My average Wolverine build is 55 tons: 64 CT front, 44 ST front. It adds up. Especially since unlike my Shadowhawks, my Wolverines don't need XL engines to carry viable firepower.
And if you want to know why Vindicators suck something awful with XL engines...
I believe that speaks for itself.
For the same reason the TBR and the SCR are so great, the Raven can tank like a beast provided they don't go for legs.
Why Jenners seem to be made of paper when you use them, yet incredibly tanky when someone else does it with 2 rear armor.
The rear CT torsos is a "flat" panel on the back.
Why Firestarters are so tough. 2 rear armor, all else to the front.
The rear hitboxes don't start until literally the sharp angle behind the arms, so they are impossible to hit from directly to the side unless somewhere off to the rear. And a smart pilot will twist to keep the rear from getting exposed.
well the HBR can bring ECM and 3 HighEngery, but other than that is just a Summoner, with better hardpoints
the DWF well because of its engine and size its the slowest mech with a good amount of tonnage for well everything,
4
Adiuvo, on 14 February 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:
