314 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

VoodooLou Kerensky, on 18 February 2015 - 02:02 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....ation_on_lasers

http://en.wikipedia....on#Electrolaser More PPC like

http://en.wikipedia....ergy_Projectile

The video with the laser popping balloons isnt a weaponized laser its a pointer, which isnt even used by military's to 'paint' a target, those lasers are visible in the infrared bands. Lasers are given colors in movies etc so that the audience can see that ship A is firing at ship B instead of ship B just taking mysterious invisible damage. And if you notice there is no colored light coming out of the cutting lasers aperture. In 500 years who knows maybe military grade lasers will have colors but I doubt it since the color would be a great way to trace back to its source

Except the real military already uses tracer rounds when shooting targets sometimes including in combat even though tracers can be traced back to the source.
Since they do that, they may well use colored lasers in actual combat.

[BobTheBully]

Is this in the game right now? My Panther still has ghost heat when firing three Larges.

[Widowmaker1981]

RiotHero, on 19 February 2015 - 01:38 AM, said:

Don't worry they gave us this hope and then nerfed every single IS mech that could finally use LPL's lol. Clan's you still win, no worries. Even my 2 LPL Raven got nerfed into the ground.

Nah, not really. Go check out the Thunderbolt 9SE for example. Plus a lot of mechs (like the BNC-3M) changed from specfic quirks to general ones, and ended up with like a 5% nerf which isnt much

I think someone who makes quirk decisions at PGI has a thunderbolt shaped secks doll he makes sweet, sweet love to every night

[Wesxander]

The 3 large laser rule should be in effect for clans as well. Simply put quirks are sort of the flavor the old tech readouts used to put into the game. Things like the Rifleman having the best anti aircraft radar system in the game allowing it a bonus to hit strafing aerospace fighters. The clans actually should have the same effect possibly even 4 large lasers before ghost heat appears. Reason I say this if you look in any the classic builds you will see large numbers of lasers exceeding this. Example the clans built the Nova and it showed IS they could field suppeior lasers in large numbers compared to innersphere models. The IS responded with the Pentrator which had no where near the same number of lasers but tried to compete range wise disabling the target then bring more weapons to bear. It should be noted however that even 10 tons heavier than the Nova it could not keep up with it speed wise.

People have mentioned that they don't like ghost heat. In classic battletech there was never any need for ghost heat simply because the heat scale was straight forward and much nastier than the one in computer shooters. 6 ppc stalker would explode on the first shot in classic battle tech or be destroyed after the first shot presuming it survived the explosion roll. More likely than not it would also be shut down at least 3 turns. People were abusing the system after they found the heat scale effects were not as drastic from what was the table top rules. PPC boats, only existed in classic battletech, were restricted to tanks which didn't have the same heat scale, or survivability that mechs have.

Some one commented clans are not all that strong. To that I say BS. LRMS that shoot like SRMs. Lasers that way less and shoot further. 4 x the ammo load out of an equivalent IS mech with AC and missles more than makes up for less than a true Omni mech. In fact the only real nerf that is in place is the classic Madcat aka Timberwolf load out. A 75 ton mech with 2 ERPPC's that hit like gauss rifles combined with 2 large lrm racks was the standard variant that IS found to be un-stoppable when paired with a vulture for fire support. PGI chose to nerf the clan ER PPC to prevent them from being boated on every clan mech there is. The rework is far less effective and does dilute the historical "shock" effect the clans had on IS from ppcs that were hitting actually harder than a gauss rifle shot.

Edited by Wesxander, 20 February 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[WhoaBrien]

Haven't had a chance to play around with this much yet, other than being eviscerated by an all-LL first wave in CW, which was... unpleasant. While I appreciate the attempt to balance IS against Clan, I would much prefer:

1) any reasonable alternative to ghost heat, even (or perhaps especially) resulting in a more harsh heat system, as some TT fans have alluded to. I can imagine a MWO where Clans are still better at boating and IS are still better at quirking, but where firing everything all the time still leaves you a piece of molten slag regardless of which side you're on. But since such an overhaul is less likely, maybe:
2) balancing down as opposed to balancing up; people may scream about nerfs, but I would rather the TTK and match length be globally nudged higher rather than lower. Anything to keep this game distinct from other twitch shooters, even if the game makes plenty use of it.

[Gorgo7]

The large laser cool down is fine but not the major buff it seems to be. The difference between two lrgl lasers and three is about 3.5 heat pts. Nice, but not decisive.
I would recommend reducing the ghost heat by a rank as well.
So FOUR lrg lasers would produce the usual heat as well as an extra 6 heat as opposed to the more extreme penalty of 9.5 that it is now.

Otherwise, it is a step in the right direction.

Cheers!

Edited by Gorgo7, 20 February 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[Volkodav]

Paul Inouye, on 13 February 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Effective immediately...

The following Inner Sphere Large Laser systems can now fire 3 weapons simultaneously without incurring heat scale (Previous value was 2):

Inner Sphere Large Laser
Inner Sphere Large Pulse Laser
Inner Sphere ER Large Laser

Notes:
* These changes are NOT reflected in Testing Grounds as it is a server side only temporary change.
* The multiplier for heat scale has not changed. Firing 4 of these weapons simultaneously will incur a higher than expected heat spike. You will be penalized for firing 2 extra weapons.. not just 1.
* The AC/2 changes have been made permanent and will be kept that way in the next patch. The heat scale removal on the AC/2s will be properly reflected in testing grounds at that point.

Please be advised, this is temporary testing on a large scale, the effect of reduction of heat scale on weapons as we look at how the game sits now that Clan tech has been added to the game. More to come in the future.

Current plan is to leave the IS Large Lasers in this state until the patch. If we extend the test or change any other values, we will let you know at that time.

Have a good weekend!

-Paul

Edit:
Just an update: Yes, the LL changes are still effective post patch.

Почему же не сделали для кланов?

Edited by Volkodav, 20 February 2015 - 10:47 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Volkodav, on 20 February 2015 - 10:43 PM, said:

Почему же не сделали для кланов?

Translation: Why is not done for the clan?

[Araevin Teshurr]

I absolutely, wholeheartedly, concur!!

[Leggin Ho]

I'd assume after this past week the powers at be at PGI should have more than enough data with all the Lrg Laser IS mechs I've seen to know you have once again screwed the pooch at your feeble attempt to balance this game with quirks. How about you actually think things through instead of just throwing numbers to the IS side and attempt to balance the game on both ends.

[Wintersdark]

BobTheBully, on 20 February 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

Is this in the game right now? My Panther still has ghost heat when firing three Larges.

No, it doesn't. Not in actual matches, at least.

It will trigger ghost heat in the testing grounds, and (may?) show it in the UI, but it does NOT generate ghost heat in game play with 3 large lasers.

[Almond Brown]

Test area is Client side so change does not apply. In game "warning" is still in place. That should be changed as even I get confused and I know the "Flashing Triangle" is wrong. Please clean that up soon PGI. No "Flashing Warning" with just 3 LPL's installed please. GH message needs an update.

[Pezzer]

Wintersdark, on 21 February 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

No, it doesn't. Not in actual matches, at least.

It will trigger ghost heat in the testing grounds, and (may?) show it in the UI, but it does NOT generate ghost heat in game play with 3 large lasers.

So this is still in effect, anyone had luck taking their 3 ERLL to the clans in CW? I imagine that this new ghost heat limit has helped balance things out for Attackers, but who knows.

[Greenjulius]

Pezzer, on 23 February 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

So this is still in effect, anyone had luck taking their 3 ERLL to the clans in CW? I imagine that this new ghost heat limit has helped balance things out for Attackers, but who knows.

Because it has only been announced unofficially, not many players know, and take advantage of it. They really need to make an announcement on the news page if they want more players providing data.

[Pezzer]

Greenjulius, on 25 February 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

Because it has only been announced unofficially, not many players know, and take advantage of it. They really need to make an announcement on the news page if they want more players providing data.

I agree. Tried it out with LPLs on my Thunderbolt and it was amazing being able to harness that much damage with a medium laser cooldown!

[Chaosbarbarian]

now we just need to encourage the removal of the ghost heat for twin AC/20s.....

[Punk Oblivion]

Chaosbarbarian, on 26 February 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

now we just need to encourage the removal of the ghost heat for twin AC/20s.....

Actually I would like the ghost heat removed from AC20's. OR have the ghost heat penalty lessened.

HOWEVER

I think the AC20 ALSO needs a nerf to go along with it. Seriously, the AC20 is so incredibly OP compared to the other ballistic weapons. AC5 stacking is the only thing comparable, and that's only due to the extremely low heat.

So if the AC20 was brought more in line with the other AC's, say weighs 16 tons (up from 14) and has a cooldown of 5 seconds (up from 4), THEN I would say get rid of ghost heat on it.

[Morang]

Can PGI please remove the warning (yellow exclamation triangle) about Ghost Heat when equipping 3 Large Lasers in MechLab?

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think the 3LL limit is good to make 15 tons of Inner Sphere LL comparable to 4 tons of Clan ERML. Sure, the 3LL is a little better in combat, but weighs almost 4 times as much to achieve the same damage at 400 meter ranges.

It would be nice if they removed the Ghost Heat cap in IS ML because only a verybsmall number of Mechs could utilize that cap removal, and I think they are all Lights, Mediums, an Awesome, and a Banshee... Mechs that could use help, anyways.

[Averen]

ExoScorpion650R, on 02 March 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

I SUGGEST this Change to Ghost Heat!

- Allow 8 Inner Sphere Medium Lasers to fire without triggering ghost heat! (up from 6 at a time)
*8 MLs fired 32 heat, 40 dmg

At the same time, make this change to Clan ER-Medium Lasers:
- keep 6 CERMLs without ghost heat as current
- REDUCE the BEAM DURATION from 1.15 to 1.0
- INCREASE the CERMLs range back to 450m (up from 405m)
*6 CERMLs fired 30 heat, 42 dmg

I would welcome these changes, as I play both Inner Sphere & Clan and IMHO these changes would bring about a closer BALANCE between IS vs Clan Medium Lasers at least!
Thoughts?

Your math is a bit off. We need to compare IS LLs because of the range.
*4 IS LL fired 28 heat, 38 dmg, 20 tons.
*6 CERMLs fired 30 heat, 42 dmg, 6 tons.
Then factor in that clans have free XLs, smaller DHS and more free slots, besides better hardpoint management. Frankly, there are already close to no scenarios where an IS mech could even equip 8 ml's, let alone cool them enough to use anything else than a gauß aside.

I don't think there is any scenario where 'buff clan laser' is a good response. They are the most efficient weapons in the game (even more so than the IS ML, which had that position before).

Edited by Averen, 02 March 2015 - 02:51 PM.