124 replies to this topic

[Wingbreaker]

Raekwon, on 19 February 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

But I thought you guys were Clan Space Weaboo... or was I wrong?

Clan Flappy Bird has deemed them Clan Mortal Combat, most honorable among freebirths.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 19 February 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Dawnstealer, on 19 February 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

Seriously, that is the scariest bloody picture of Katrina Steiner ever created. She looks like she's about to turn around and tear some uppity social general's throat out with her bare teeth!

Early BattleTech art is insane.

[Ilithi Dragon]

wanderer, on 19 February 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Let's note that this was an unreleased document. From long slogging through diplomatic papers, I can tell you this.

I've seen more incendiary drafts that got this far, people finally went "Nah, this is pure 200-proof stupid" and filed it with the paper shredder.

^^^^^

This.

The document posted in the OP was a draft, presented to the FWLM community behind closed doors, for critiques and comments and objections. It was written in response to deteriorating relations with Kurita, general frustration with, from our perspective, Kurita's failure to respond to our efforts to have an engaging alliance, and our community's general distaste and disapproval for the consistently growing amount of trolling and abusive behavior exhibited by Kuritan players, both on the forum and in game. There were a number of other factors involved, including our long-standing and well-known strategic aim of placing a buffer of Marik space above Terra, so that we don't have to wait for the Clans to come all the way past Terra to be able to fight them directly and directly assist in pushing them back, and concerns over what our obligations were regarding our new Star League alliance, among others.

It was later decided that this was not the path that we wanted to take, and we decided to not post this document. This decision, and the full discussions behind it, were not immediately passed on to the rest of the community, and certain members, not being privy to those discussions, and not being aware of the full situation that was going on, took it upon themselves to post documents that, as Wanderer put it, were on their way to being filed with the paper shredder.

I am saddened and disappointed that this was made public, because it represents a breach of trust, that discretion would be kept until things were ready to be made public, if that decision was ever made, and a failure of trust, in the integrity of our community organizers (when it comes right down to it, that's all the FWLM unit commanders are, organizers of the community who do the administrative work of bringing it together, and help give it direction), and in my own integrity.

[Molossian Dog]

You could just have said.

"This was a draft up for discussion. We discarded it. It got posted anyways. That sucks."

End of post.

[Lichsmash]

that really doesn't explain all the warmongering over the wormhole that is and was always kurita space

[Gas Guzzler]

Ilithi Dragon, on 19 February 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

^^^^^

This.

The document posted in the OP was a draft, presented to the FWLM community behind closed doors, for critiques and comments and objections. It was written in response to deteriorating relations with Kurita, general frustration with, from our perspective, Kurita's failure to respond to our efforts to have an engaging alliance, and our community's general distaste and disapproval for the consistently growing amount of trolling and abusive behavior exhibited by Kuritan players, both on the forum and in game. There were a number of other factors involved, including our long-standing and well-known strategic aim of placing a buffer of Marik space above Terra, so that we don't have to wait for the Clans to come all the way past Terra to be able to fight them directly and directly assist in pushing them back, and concerns over what our obligations were regarding our new Star League alliance, among others.

It was later decided that this was not the path that we wanted to take, and we decided to not post this document. This decision, and the full discussions behind it, were not immediately passed on to the rest of the community, and certain members, not being privy to those discussions, and not being aware of the full situation that was going on, took it upon themselves to post documents that, as Wanderer put it, were on their way to being filed with the paper shredder.

I am saddened and disappointed that this was made public, because it represents a breach of trust, that discretion would be kept until things were ready to be made public, if that decision was ever made, and a failure of trust, in the integrity of our community organizers (when it comes right down to it, that's all the FWLM unit commanders are, organizers of the community who do the administrative work of bringing it together, and help give it direction), and in my own integrity.

Well hopefully you guys can talk it over on TS sometime and get all concerns ironed out. I won't be there though, I'm just a lowly warrior and fossil fuel consumer, not a diplo.

[PerfectDuck]

Well... I don't think anyone in my unit ever even dreamed of giving such a colossal FU to Marik until after this most recent betrayal. That there were so many gripes was all very new news to us. You know, feelings of resentment which never got fully presented but were instead allowed to build up and fester ultimately broke up my last relationship when I thought everything was going just fine.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Molossian Dog, on 19 February 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

You could just have said.

"This was a draft up for discussion. We discarded it. It got posted anyways. That sucks."

End of post.

No, I couldn't. Anyone who knows me knows that I always ramble on, usually incessantly. } ; = 8 P

[Stealth Raptor]

Ilithi Dragon, on 19 February 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

^^^^^

This.

The document posted in the OP was a draft, presented to the FWLM community behind closed doors, for critiques and comments and objections. It was written in response to deteriorating relations with Kurita, general frustration with, from our perspective, Kurita's failure to respond to our efforts to have an engaging alliance, and our community's general distaste and disapproval for the consistently growing amount of trolling and abusive behavior exhibited by Kuritan players, both on the forum and in game. There were a number of other factors involved, including our long-standing and well-known strategic aim of placing a buffer of Marik space above Terra, so that we don't have to wait for the Clans to come all the way past Terra to be able to fight them directly and directly assist in pushing them back, and concerns over what our obligations were regarding our new Star League alliance, among others.

It was later decided that this was not the path that we wanted to take, and we decided to not post this document. This decision, and the full discussions behind it, were not immediately passed on to the rest of the community, and certain members, not being privy to those discussions, and not being aware of the full situation that was going on, took it upon themselves to post documents that, as Wanderer put it, were on their way to being filed with the paper shredder.

I am saddened and disappointed that this was made public, because it represents a breach of trust, that discretion would be kept until things were ready to be made public, if that decision was ever made, and a failure of trust, in the integrity of our community organizers (when it comes right down to it, that's all the FWLM unit commanders are, organizers of the community who do the administrative work of bringing it together, and help give it direction), and in my own integrity.

while i appreciate your words, a lot of us are fired up over this. If it had just been an attack on us, or just this decleration with the blatant lies about us being leaked, it wouldnt have been a big deal. There were definitely some eye rolling when you guys fell full force on us, but we were like w/e at least there is action. That combined with this post however has pissed off a large part of us and we feel like the trust has been broken. I honestly dont know if we will be able to repair our alliance after the last 2 days though i sincerely hope cooler heads will prevail and we will get through this without perpetuation more strife that only benefits the clans and not any of us

[Strykewolf]

I get the feeling, from the last few days...and various threads; that Marik and Kurita got played.

[Ilithi Dragon]

Lichsmash, on 19 February 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

that really doesn't explain all the warmongering over the wormhole that is and was always kurita space

Strategic concerns. We see Kurita getting rolled up by the Clans. We see them fighting on the Davion border instead of the Clan front. We here reports from guys solo-dropping on the Kuritan front that they barely see any Kuritan pilots in the queue, ever. We have people who log onto the Kuritan TS and see that the Davion front is marked as the priority, first before the Clan front, and then the Marik front is marked as priority, first before the Clan front. We have the reports from the mercs that we sent to help Kurita, and reports from other mercs who went to help around the same time, that assistance from Kuritan units seemed to be inconsistent, at best, and that Kuritan units seemed to be more interested in fighting on the Davion front than fighting the Clans.

Whether entirely accurate or not, all of these things add up to paint a picture for us that Kurita has largely abandoned the Clan front, in favor of rolling over Davion. Kurita wasn't able to hold back the Clans before we sent most of our merc units over to help, and we have no reason to believe that Kurita will be able to hold the Clans back now that they're gone.

From our perspective, if Kurita can't or won't hold back the Clans, then we want to at least TRY to do it ourselves, before they get to Terra. And to do that, we need some kind of buffer of Marik space above Terra. Marik's intention with the wormhole was to push a direct front with the Clans, or at the very least, create a buffer over Terra should Kurita fail to hold them, and with the Clans rolling through Kurita space, from our perspective it is only a matter of time before Kurita loses those worlds, anyway. Better they be lost to us, an ostensible ally, who can use those worlds to help Kurita fight the Clans, than they be lost to the Clans directly. Worst case scenario, Kurita has to fight other IS teams to get them back, which is generally better than having to fight Clan teams to get them back.

[pwnface]

Document or not, Marik intended to declare war on Kurita for various reasons.

Instead of doing so, they opted for a sneak attack and failed miserably.

I think you have taken our refusal to join the new Star League bitterly and it is effecting the way you are leading the FWLM unless you intend them to be one and the same.

If you want war, we are happy to give it to you.

Where the DMCS wants to prioritize OUR soliders are none of your concern. The fact that you think you can dictate where we deploy our forces is incredibly arrogant, the fact that you think you can take our worlds by force because you aren't happy with how we are managing OUR soldiers is downright outrageous.

[pwnface]

Ilithi Dragon, on 19 February 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

From our perspective, if Kurita can't or won't hold back the Clans, then we want to at least TRY to do it ourselves, before they get to Terra.

I'm sorry but this is complete bullshit. You can drop in defense on ANY Inner Sphere world being attacked by the clans ANYTIME. You don't need to own a planet to defend it!

You are a liar and a cheat sir, good day!

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

ilithi dragon the hedgehog

[stratagos]

pwnface, on 19 February 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

I'm sorry but this is complete bullshit. You can drop in defense on ANY Inner Sphere world being attacked by the clans ANYTIME. You don't need to own a planet to defend it!

You are a liar and a cheat sir, good day!

Playing devil's advocate, in the words of Ed Grubermann, the best defense is a good offense. Being able to attack a Clan world - in theory - forces them to pull units back to defend.

In actuality it's be pugs from the *other* Clans, but that'd be the theoretical benefit

[Ultra-Laser]

Ilithi Dragon, on 19 February 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

^^^^^

This.

The document posted in the OP was a draft, presented to the FWLM community behind closed doors, for critiques and comments and objections. It was written in response to deteriorating relations with Kurita, general frustration with, from our perspective, Kurita's failure to respond to our efforts to have an engaging alliance, and our community's general distaste and disapproval for the consistently growing amount of trolling and abusive behavior exhibited by Kuritan players, both on the forum and in game. There were a number of other factors involved, including our long-standing and well-known strategic aim of placing a buffer of Marik space above Terra, so that we don't have to wait for the Clans to come all the way past Terra to be able to fight them directly and directly assist in pushing them back, and concerns over what our obligations were regarding our new Star League alliance, among others.

It was later decided that this was not the path that we wanted to take, and we decided to not post this document. This decision, and the full discussions behind it, were not immediately passed on to the rest of the community, and certain members, not being privy to those discussions, and not being aware of the full situation that was going on, took it upon themselves to post documents that, as Wanderer put it, were on their way to being filed with the paper shredder.

I am saddened and disappointed that this was made public, because it represents a breach of trust, that discretion would be kept until things were ready to be made public, if that decision was ever made, and a failure of trust, in the integrity of our community organizers (when it comes right down to it, that's all the FWLM unit commanders are, organizers of the community who do the administrative work of bringing it together, and help give it direction), and in my own integrity.

So you're saying that planning to take our planets over perceived slights is perfectly fine, as long as we're only told after the fact? That integrity matters when dealing with fellow members of Marik command, but not the DCMS council? That breaching an agreement that was already made is fine because HK didn't want to make promises it couldn't keep?

[Chef Kerensky]

Ilithi Dragon, on 19 February 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

^^^^^

This.

The document posted in the OP was a draft, presented to the FWLM community behind closed doors, for critiques and comments and objections. It was written in response to deteriorating relations with Kurita, general frustration with, from our perspective, Kurita's failure to respond to our efforts to have an engaging alliance, and our community's general distaste and disapproval for the consistently growing amount of trolling and abusive behavior exhibited by Kuritan players, both on the forum and in game. There were a number of other factors involved, including our long-standing and well-known strategic aim of placing a buffer of Marik space above Terra, so that we don't have to wait for the Clans to come all the way past Terra to be able to fight them directly and directly assist in pushing them back, and concerns over what our obligations were regarding our new Star League alliance, among others.

It was later decided that this was not the path that we wanted to take, and we decided to not post this document. This decision, and the full discussions behind it, were not immediately passed on to the rest of the community, and certain members, not being privy to those discussions, and not being aware of the full situation that was going on, took it upon themselves to post documents that, as Wanderer put it, were on their way to being filed with the paper shredder.

I am saddened and disappointed that this was made public, because it represents a breach of trust, that discretion would be kept until things were ready to be made public, if that decision was ever made, and a failure of trust, in the integrity of our community organizers (when it comes right down to it, that's all the FWLM unit commanders are, organizers of the community who do the administrative work of bringing it together, and help give it direction), and in my own integrity.

Breach of trust, huh *turns to smoldering remains of hundreds of marik pug mechs*

[Gas Guzzler]

Of course, the best defense against the Clans is to tie up two factions in a war. It's genius!

[Chef Kerensky]

*hiding dagger behind cloak* Wow, I feel completely betrayed right now. Like for real.

[Prophetic]

Ilithi Dragon, on 19 February 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Strategic concerns. We see Kurita getting rolled up by the Clans. We see them fighting on the Davion border instead of the Clan front. We here reports from guys solo-dropping on the Kuritan front that they barely see any Kuritan pilots in the queue, ever. We have people who log onto the Kuritan TS and see that the Davion front is marked as the priority, first before the Clan front, and then the Marik front is marked as priority, first before the Clan front. We have the reports from the mercs that we sent to help Kurita, and reports from other mercs who went to help around the same time, that assistance from Kuritan units seemed to be inconsistent, at best, and that Kuritan units seemed to be more interested in fighting on the Davion front than fighting the Clans.

Whether entirely accurate or not, all of these things add up to paint a picture for us that Kurita has largely abandoned the Clan front, in favor of rolling over Davion. Kurita wasn't able to hold back the Clans before we sent most of our merc units over to help, and we have no reason to believe that Kurita will be able to hold the Clans back now that they're gone.

From our perspective, if Kurita can't or won't hold back the Clans, then we want to at least TRY to do it ourselves, before they get to Terra. And to do that, we need some kind of buffer of Marik space above Terra. Marik's intention with the wormhole was to push a direct front with the Clans, or at the very least, create a buffer over Terra should Kurita fail to hold them, and with the Clans rolling through Kurita space, from our perspective it is only a matter of time before Kurita loses those worlds, anyway. Better they be lost to us, an ostensible ally, who can use those worlds to help Kurita fight the Clans, than they be lost to the Clans directly. Worst case scenario, Kurita has to fight other IS teams to get them back, which is generally better than having to fight Clan teams to get them back.

First you say that the aforementioned document was shredded and was not the right path.
Then you follow up with the same exact concerns that lead you to attack us in the first place?

Your evidence is full of holes. You want o know why u don't see HK pugs in solo drops? We don't have any. Bad intel.

You want to talk TS? Your TS had Attack HK before anyone else, including helping vs clans.

You mention us getting rolled by clans? So why would Marik care where we drop, we are useless anyway.

The only reason Marik had a wormhole was because we agreed to test it. It became a liability and we closed it. Marik never had a deciding vote here. House Kurita did.

It would be best if you stop explaining. It's not helping Marik's case at all.