168 replies to this topic

[Stealth Raptor]

"Lauging it off" is relative. Just like you guys did, we discussed and voted on it. This whole we laughed it off is based off of the faulty perception taken from the forum posters and not the people that actually discussed it.

And we would react simarly if you had dieron. I know for a fact that our EU units were in a tizzy when the wormhole took dieron. However, the only reason why i ever throw the fact that you said no to our ceasefire is to those people that point to us saying no to your ceasefire is the cause of all this, that we are at fault, etc. Our answer then doesnt matter anymore- if offered now the answer would be hell yes. at this point, i have a good feel from what was said at the beginning of the thread to see this issue from davions eyes and fully understand the wrongs that feel were commited away from the flam war that exists everywhere else. I hope that with my previous post you guys can also look through our eyes, and maybe we can work to something. It personally doesnt matter to me who i fight, i go where our drop commanders send us, but i also dont want to see the clans take terra. The gloating would last through the next 3 mechwarrior games lol

[Reitmeier]

MischiefSC, on 23 February 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

If Davion plowed back into Kurita, took dieron and a swath of southern worlds and then offered a ceasefire, what would you say?

Thats why we stopped right before Robinson and tried to achieve a ceasefire. We all know that this going to be impossible if we conquer Robinson.

[Abivard]

Squelches, on 23 February 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

ha ha ha ha. Save your platitudes, Rasalhague stink-dog! I got a hog you can wrassle... right here!

Baka, Fuzakeru na!
That is a ghost Bear Clanner! No more sake for you today!

[Stormthorn]

MischiefSC, on 23 February 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

If Davion plowed back into Kurita, took dieron and a swath of southern worlds and then offered a ceasefire, what would you say?

I see your point. I guess my answer would depend on what we have to lose. Right now I think Davion has more to lose than to gain by having a ceasefire, they have a desire of focusing on the clans, keep Robinson and uphold the ideals of the nSL, but potential gains/losses are subjective.

I also see your point Stealth Raptor. I just wanted to explain what I saw as a person on our side. I totally agree why someone would be upset about a misunderstood ceasefire. I'm also pretty sick of playing against Davions, I want something different again, except recently APOC has made Davion more exciting.

Edited by Stormthorn, 23 February 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[MischiefSC]

With the approach the fighting took out of the gate a cf was unlikely by Kentares.

[Davers]

I cannot speak for Davion, or for Marik's leadership either, but when Marik approached HK with talks of ceasefires and focusing on Clans we did so with respect as equals. Then Kurita declined and got in a shitposting war with a bunch of nobodies (not drop callers, not unit leaders, just rank and file guys- including one who was only a Marik for a week). Harsh words were said, on both sides, and units like the Seraphim who had been so eager to help Kurita against the Clans- where they had always claimed they couldn't successfully fight due to numbers- had a lot of mud slung at them.

Then a majority of Marik's leadership went incommunicado for a week, and no one knew what was going to happen with the wormhole, until the last minute when Marik attacked hoping to take a planet to buy time for the leaders to talk. Well, that didn't go well for us. Then the forum was filled with HK guys bragging about how Marik sucked, our leaders suck, etc.

Now that HK has accomplished it's goals, it's offering ceasefires and focusing on the Clans. But now there is no feelings of camaraderie or respect. It's the triumphant victor giving terms to a defeated foe. "If you know what's good for you, you will take this offer". Doesn't sound much different than "If you know what's good for you, you will stay on the floor", does it? No thank you. With all due respect, I think we will stand.

[Stealth Raptor]

I agree, at this point there is no hope of anything but strife between us with n. hope of a ceasefire. At least we know a map reset is coming so terra will only burn briefly

Edited by Stealth Raptor, 23 February 2015 - 07:16 PM.

[Prophetic]

No worries.

The bottom line is Davion wants the war to continue.
It will and we won't stop for anything.

See you on the battlefield.

[Stormthorn]

Davers, on 23 February 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

Units like the Seraphim who had been so eager to help Kurita against the Clans- where they had always claimed they couldn't successfully fight due to numbers- had a lot of mud slung at them.

From what i understand, Seraphim didn't ever get in touch with Kurita units when they switched to Kurita, and then complained very loudly we weren't helping on the clan front and doing what they wanted. they didn't say "hey guys, we will fight with Kurita if you go to the clan front." I bet if someone higher in command has stated that to a council member, the council would have responded with "we are fighting Davion, if you want to drop our clan border you can," then Seraphim wouldn't have gotten told off for telling our faction what to do and they could have spent their time and energy elsewhere.

Most of the Merc units that came to help and left never even said anything about being around. We were busy with a feud between Davion. We were already locked in a fight that didn't (and still doesn't) have an end.

I think both sides could have handled the situation better. Not just Kurita.

Davers, on 23 February 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

the last minute when Marik attacked hoping to take a planet to buy time for the leaders to talk.

There was still another planet to go. It was not last minute. Instead of being an aggressor, Marik could have spent that time negotiating with Kurita instead of fighting. Your fights took a huge toll on our other fronts. I don't think Kurita being sour and throwing it in Marik's face shouldn't have been unexpected after you aggressed against us without any warning or explanation. I'm sorry your leaders hadn't "decided" yet, but that isn't Kurita's fault. The Council had apparently said a week earlier that it was their intention to close the wormhole and you should have understood the consequences of attacking without warning or explanation. I think your claim of "well it was a last minute decision" was hasty and rash.

Davers, on 23 February 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

"If you know what's good for you, you will take this offer".

This sounds exactly like what Marik and the nSL wanted from Kurita. Join the nSL or "there will be consequences." Or is that not true?

[Gas Guzzler]

So, we will just keep wrecking Davion, and CGB will head straight to Terra. Awesome. Well gg guys, we'll do better after the reset.

[Duvanor]

Why CGB? I saw you just lost another planet to the Jags.

[Davers]

Stormthorn, on 23 February 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:

From what i understand, Seraphim didn't ever get in touch with Kurita units when they switched to Kurita, and then complained very loudly we weren't helping on the clan front and doing what they wanted. they didn't say "hey guys, we will fight with Kurita if you go to the clan front." I bet if someone higher in command has stated that to a council member, the council would have responded with "we are fighting Davion, if you want to drop our clan border you can," then Seraphim wouldn't have gotten told off for telling our faction what to do and they could have spent their time and energy elsewhere.

Most of the Merc units that came to help and left never even said anything about being around. We were busy with a feud between Davion. We were already locked in a fight that didn't (and still doesn't) have an end.

I think both sides could have handled the situation better. Not just Kurita.



There was still another planet to go. It was not last minute. Instead of being an aggressor, Marik could have spent that time negotiating with Kurita instead of fighting. Your fights took a huge toll on our other fronts. I don't think Kurita being sour and throwing it in Marik's face shouldn't have been unexpected after you aggressed against us without any warning or explanation. I'm sorry your leaders hadn't "decided" yet, but that isn't Kurita's fault. The Council had apparently said a week earlier that it was their intention to close the wormhole and you should have understood the consequences of attacking without warning or explanation. I think your claim of "well it was a last minute decision" was hasty and rash.




This sounds exactly like what Marik and the nSL wanted from Kurita. Join the nSL or "there will be consequences." Or is that not true?

1. Oh, total miscommunication. I don't think it ever dawned on them that Kurita wasn't interested in fighting Clans that week. They just assumed that HK would rather use their additional numbers to retake planets from the Clans.

2. One planet, two planets. *shrug* Change 'last minute' to 'last 2 CW phases'.

3. I don't remember anyone important saying anything. The ones I remember saying things like that, well, one hasn't been seen since and another jumped ship to another House. Maybe there was a post I missed? As far as I know, Marik leadership's response was "That's cool. But we need our mercs back to fight the Clans."

[Gas Guzzler]

Duvanor, on 23 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

Why CGB? I saw you just lost another planet to the Jags.

Look at the map, CGB is getting great attack lanes towards Terra.

[Duvanor]

I know. And the Jags are getting everything around Luthien again while you take an unimportent Davion planet. Were we Wolves as easily distracted as the Kombine we would do nothing but attack the Bears. I mean, it looks like you have no problem holding your planets in the south. Why not do just that and commit your additional forces to the northern fronts?

[Davers]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 February 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

Look at the map, CGB is getting great attack lanes towards Terra.

If we had the 3 time zones from the beginning, the FRR would already been gone for a while. I imagine the Clans will win quicker every reset since they have already learned valuable lessons (don't trade planets or you can lose your lane) and people just love to side with the winners.

[Davers]

Duvanor, on 23 February 2015 - 10:46 PM, said:

I know. And the Jags are getting everything around Luthien again while you take an unimportent Davion planet. Were we Wolves as easily distracted as the Kombine we would do nothing but attack the Bears. I mean, it looks like you have no problem holding your planets in the south. Why not do just that and commit your additional forces to the northern fronts?

LOL I think this has been discussed ad nauseum.

Edited by Davers, 23 February 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[Stormthorn]

Davers, on 23 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

1. Oh, total miscommunication. I don't think it ever dawned on them that Kurita wasn't interested in fighting Clans that week. They just assumed that HK would rather use their additional numbers to retake planets from the Clans.

2. One planet, two planets. *shrug* Change 'last minute' to 'last 2 CW phases'.

3. I don't remember anyone important saying anything. The ones I remember saying things like that, well, one hasn't been seen since and another jumped ship to another House. Maybe there was a post I missed? As far as I know, Marik leadership's response was "That's cool. But we need our mercs back to fight the Clans."

Thanks for your point of view.

[Karl Marlow]

Stealth Raptor, on 23 February 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

I agree, at this point there is no hope of anything but strife between us with n. hope of a ceasefire. At least we know a map reset is coming so terra will only burn briefly

that's the thing with creating strife and slapping away good will. Stuff like that tends to survive something as minor as a map reset. Meanwhile factions like liao and Davion have proven to be good to their word and pleasant to work with even when the nations have been in conflict with one another.

So much has been learned in this beta. We learned how to organize and fight. We learned the game mechanics. Most importantly we've learned the character of the various factions. Come the reset I wouldn't put much faith in lore alliances. We've been making our own lore. We don't need to default to the books anymore.

[Stealth Raptor]

i never expected people to magically get over issues on a reset. i fully expect whatever particular alignment exists at the end of beta will still exist at the beginning of release lol (or from the end of this map into the beginning of the next bet map)

[Scoops Kerensky]

Davers, on 23 February 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

3. I don't remember anyone important saying anything. The ones I remember saying things like that, well, one hasn't been seen since and another jumped ship to another House. Maybe there was a post I missed? As far as I know, Marik leadership's response was "That's cool. But we need our mercs back to fight the Clans."

This message was given to us by Illithi Dragon during our deliberations to join the Star League:

From Ilthi Dragon (a forerunner on Star Leage)-

Quote

A point to consider. If Kurita decides to not join the new Star League, which is entirely your prerogative, that will require some significant reevaluation of the Star League's stance. What we decide will require discussion among the faction representatives, but our resources are limited, and there will be no reason for us to spend any of those resources assisting Kurita in their fight against the Clans. Two merc units making significant contributions to your Clan front are both Marik-aligned, and both will probably return here if you leave the Star League, and the mercs affiliated with the new merc faction that is forming will probably leave and go fight in the FRR. That will leave just your house units, and the handful of mercs loyal to Kurita, or passing through on their rotation who don't care about political affiliations, defending against the Clans. Can you maintain that defense while also maintaining your offensive against Davion? Especially since Davion would no longer be engaging in defense operations only as an act of good faith, and would be free to press their own attack against you.

Furthermore, with Kurita not a part of the Star League, and attacking a fellow member of the Star League, the rest of the Star League would have legitimate reason to advance into Kurita territory, both in response to Kuritan aggression, and to open up a new SL front against the Clans to replace the Kuritan front.

I can't say for sure what the SL parliament/council/committee/whateverwedecidetocallit will decide, but Marik, for one, has a lot of guys itching for ISvsIS fights, and a front we can expand our borders on, and our own direct front with the Clans.


To be clear, I am making no kind of threat, and attempting no kind of coercion, just noting that if Kurita ops to not join the Star League, there could be much more serious consequences than just not getting some coordination against the Clans.

Despite the claim that it was not a threat, perhaps those reading through it can see how it was easy to take it as one. It had a very chilling effect on our deliberations.

Edited by Scoops Kerensky, 23 February 2015 - 11:59 PM.