134 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

Seriously, the only reason that everyone cries 'Clan Laser Vomit OP!' isn't because it actually is OP (well, they might need to be smoothed out, but they're definitely not OP) but because the ballistics are so TERRIBLE.

1. The LB AC-X system needs to be finished. The ability to swap between LB and AC ammo would be the biggest positive to the terrible state of clan ballistics right now.

2. A new mechanic for Clan burst needs to be done.

A- ACs are split into 2 shot bursts with 1/2 damage per bullet, AC2 does 2x1 damage, AC5 does 2x2.5 damage, AC10 does 2x5 damage, and AC20 does 2x10 damage.
---This would keep the Clans from having PPFLD ACs while maintaining the hirearchy/trade off of the increased size/damage in exchange for distance that the IS ACs do. The whole reason AC20s are practically useless is because they fire so many bullets in a single salvo that you're lucky if you can so any more than an AC10's worth of damage if youre lucky and more commonly an AC5's worth of damage unless your target is either a very slow assault or practically standing still.

B- ACs are split into bursts with 5 damage bullets. AC2 does 1x2 damage, AC5 does 1x5 damage, AC10 does 2x5 damage, and AC20 does 4x5 damage.
---This keeps the larger salvo on higher rated ACs intact to go along with the current mechanic while normalizing the damage per bullet throughout the AC rating, effectively making them all the same weapon balanced by being able to fire more bullets per salvo (thus more damage) but at the cost of reduced range.


I personally prefer idea 2a for balancing Clan ballistics.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 23 February 2015 - 09:16 AM.

[FupDup]

The Clan UAC/20 has a total burst duration of 0.68 seconds.

For reference, the Clan Small Pulse Laser has a burn time of 0.75 seconds.


The reason Clan UACs feel like they fire so long isn't because of the total burn time, it's because of firing slow projectiles. The projectile speeds aren't as noticeable with fully FLD ballistics because there's only one bullet coming out. But when there's multiple bullets coming out over a short period of time, the sluggish speed gets compounded.




Just make the bullets fly faster and it's mostly problem solved. Maybe we might need to reduce their cockpit shake as compensation, I dunno.

[Metus regem]

I'd just like to have my 15/15 cERPPC's back...

I got to use them like that for a couple of days, before they were turned into 2.5/10/2.5 for 15 heat...

I am worried that when the IS get their UAC family, that they are going to be like the IS UAC 5, and will totally overshadow the clan UAC's....

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

I'd just like to have my 15/15 cERPPC's back...

I got to use them like that for a couple of days, before they were turned into 2.5/10/2.5 for 15 heat...

I am worried that when the IS get their UAC family, that they are going to be like the IS UAC 5, and will totally overshadow the clan UAC's....

Clan ERPPCs were never 15 pinpoint damage in MWO.

[Vassago Rain]

But all the RP dudes and lorewizards told us that DoT guns like in muh lore and muh honorable books was Just And Proper.

Are you saying they were wrong, and because of their insistence, we got saddled with clan ballistics that are more like very heavy and ammo consuming MWO lasers, than actual guns?



Dear me, I never would have guessed that in late 2013. You guys are blowing my mind here.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 23 February 2015 - 09:24 AM.

[Metus regem]

FupDup, on 23 February 2015 - 09:22 AM, said:

Clan ERPPCs were never 15 pinpoint damage in MWO.

I'm sure that they were....

I remeber when they put in the splash mechanic to bring the clan ERPPC's more inline with the IS versions....

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

I'm sure that they were....

I remeber when they put in the splash mechanic to bring the clan ERPPC's more inline with the IS versions....

They had that mechanic since the first day of the invasion.

[MauttyKoray]

Vassago Rain, on 23 February 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

But all the RP dudes and lorewizards told us that DoT guns like in muh lore and muh honorable books was Just And Proper.

Are you saying they were wrong, and because of their insistence, we got saddled with clan ballistics that are more like very heavy and ammo consuming MWO lasers, than actual guns?

Dear me, I never would have guessed that in late 2013. You guys are blowing my mind here.

Considering there were dozens of DIFFERENT ballistic weapons from various manufacturers in Battletech, it doesn't fit here unless they want to include like 4-8 different ACs of the same rating (i.e. 5 different AC10s with varying cooldown, burst, damage, and heat, haha...that requires real balance work on PGIs part...) all doing various damage, cooldown, and burst size.

I'm not saying get rid of the burst, as you can see in OP, but the IS still have PPFLD Ballistics and with the way Clan (U)ACs fire their projectiles, the amount of time to fire the full salvo negates a considerable amount of effectiveness of the weapon. Reducing the number of bullets in the salvo will reduce this problem, and both methods I suggested above would have a considerable positive effect on the state of them without causing PPFLD.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 23 February 2015 - 09:31 AM.

[Metus regem]

FupDup, on 23 February 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

They had that mechanic since the first day of the invasion.

huh, maybe I was wrong then... but I remeber reading a post from the flaming balance man that shall burn, stating that they were going to use the splash system for the cERPPC, rather than the PPFLD that it was...

[FupDup]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 09:30 AM, said:

huh, maybe I was wrong then... but I remeber reading a post from the flaming balance man that shall burn, stating that they were going to use the splash system for the cERPPC, rather than the PPFLD that it was...

They made that post before the release of the Clan packs.

[RedDevil]

PPFLD?

[FupDup]

reddevil, on 23 February 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

PPFLD?

Pin Point Front Loaded Damage

[Metus regem]

FupDup, on 23 February 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

They made that post before the release of the Clan packs.

Well thanks for the correction, I guess I was wrong.

[Screech]

Way to address the issue of "Laser Vomit" correctly as it is a symptom of clan ACs being just not worth it. Not sure about the proposed fixes, think I would just remove a shot from each AC variant to start and couple that with the velocity changes Russ has tweeted. Then give these changes a couple weeks and re-visit when the dust settles.

It is not that burst fire AC is necessarily bad it is just that the current implementation is bad.

[EyeOne]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

I'm sure that they were....

I remeber when they put in the splash mechanic to bring the clan ERPPC's more inline with the IS versions....

Nope. 2.5/10/2.5 was a mechanic announced before the clans release.

[Nori Silverrage]

Yeah you rarely every see anyone take AC because they are so terrible compared to pretty much anything.
I'm open to debate on what to do with the UAC10/20 but the UAC2/5 should act almost identical to the IS UAC5. If they really want them to be worse then have it fire two shots, but please make them fire pretty quickly..

[Pariah Devalis]

I would personally like to see the burst duration reduced instead of the velocity increased. Hitting a target isn't the problem. It's how easily it can be spread that is. MW3 had a wonderful system of it: All sizes fired 5 shells in the space of a quarter second. Class 2 through 20 used five shells.  The burst duration was fast enough to consistently hit what you wanted.  Damage did spread a little, however, due to its burst nature, but it was a lot more focused.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 23 February 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[Deathlike]

It shouldn't be that hard to fix them, but guessing balance... just throw darts over random spots. Maybe you'll get a bullseye and get the balance change you want... or something random altogether.

[Metus regem]

Deathlike, on 23 February 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

It shouldn't be that hard to fix them, but guessing balance... just throw darts over random spots. Maybe you'll get a bullseye and get the balance change you want... or something random altogether.

So business as usual for the man that shal not be named and balance?

[Zolaz]

IS warriors tired of Clan crying about everything. You have the best mechs ... learn how to use them.