134 replies to this topic

[Nori Silverrage]

DjPush, on 23 February 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I seriously doubt any correction to UAC weapons would stop the clans from boating laser weapons. Pinpoint alphas compared to spray and pray? C'mon dude.

You are joking right? I would take 2x IS UAC5s in my Timberwolf in a heartbeat! I would take a IS AC20 in my Stormcrow anyday. AC20 adder would be hilarious.

[Metus regem]

Nori Silverrage, on 23 February 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

You are joking right? I would take 2x IS UAC5s in my Timberwolf in a heartbeat! I would take a IS AC20 in my Stormcrow anyday. AC20 adder would be hilarious.

I've done the UAC 20, and LB-20X Adder, and they are hilarious... just have a firend that is bigger near by, and people will shoot at him, thinking he did it.

[0bsidion]

DjPush, on 23 February 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

I seriously doubt any correction to UAC weapons would stop the clans from boating laser weapons. Pinpoint alphas compared to spray and pray? C'mon dude.

If they halved the 'burn time' and doubled the pellet speed, and reduced the UAC2 to 1 solid slug, the UAC5, 10, and 20 to 2 slugs, you don't think people would start using them more? I know I would.

[Metus regem]

0bsidion, on 23 February 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

If they halved the 'burn time' and doubled the pellet speed, and reduced the UAC2 to 1 solid slug, the UAC5, 10, and 20 to 2 slugs, you don't think people would start using them more? I know I would.

-shrug- I mount the 5's on my Dire Trolololf, and I have a 20 on my Summoner...

[Davers]

Nori Silverrage, on 23 February 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

Yes, there is. Because the Clan AC weapons are so horrendous as to warrent nonuse in all but a but circumstances. If you took away all clan lasers and instead gave them IS lasers you would still never see Clan AC weapons.

IS or Clan AC weapons have a lot of downsides. They are very heavy, take up a lot of space, they need ammo (and more space), ammo can explode, and they are a projectile in some cases a slow one.

Ammo and gauss explosions are more of an IS problem, as every Clan mech has free, weightless, slot-free CASE in every section compared to the .5 ton, 1 slot, torso only IS CASE.

[Nori Silverrage]

0bsidion, on 23 February 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

If they halved the 'burn time' and doubled the pellet speed, and reduced the UAC2 to 1 solid slug, the UAC5, 10, and 20 to 2 slugs, you don't think people would start using them more? I know I would.

At the very least I would try it. Would be a nice change from laser vomit all the time. I'd be happy to put another weapon system on that isn't as hot as a oven..

[Nori Silverrage]

Davers, on 23 February 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Ammo and gauss explosions are more of an IS problem, as every Clan mech has free, weightless, slot-free CASE in every section compared to the .5 ton, 1 slot, torso only IS CASE.

It is still a risk. A ammo explosion means that part is pretty much dead. Most of the time that will be in the side torso. You are now half dead with likely half your weapons gone. Seems pretty dangerous to me still.

I have died from ammo explosions on IS mechs. One funny one was when I was in my Dragon 1N. That sucker needs lots of ammo and naturally I put some in my legs. Well someone got the bright idea to shoot up my leg. Stripped the armor and next thing I know I'm dead. Reason ammo explosion... Only part more than scratched? The leg... Still if I had been in a clan mech and lost only the leg I surely would have died shortly thereafter.

[Davers]

Nori Silverrage, on 23 February 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

It is still a risk. A ammo explosion means that part is pretty much dead. Most of the time that will be in the side torso. You are now half dead with likely half your weapons gone. Seems pretty dangerous to me still.

I have died from ammo explosions on IS mechs. One funny one was when I was in my Dragon 1N. That sucker needs lots of ammo and naturally I put some in my legs. Well someone got the bright idea to shoot up my leg. Stripped the armor and next thing I know I'm dead. Reason ammo explosion... Only part more than scratched? The leg... Still if I had been in a clan mech and lost only the leg I surely would have died shortly thereafter.

Still not as bad as in an IS mech, where that ammo explosion means death for an XL engine.
Note: You can only die from an ammo explosion in a Clan mech if you put the ammo in your head or CT, compared to an IS mech that can die from an ammo explosion anywhere.

[Mcgral18]

Davers, on 23 February 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Still not as bad as in an IS mech, where that ammo explosion means death for an XL engine.
Note: You can only die from an ammo explosion in a Clan mech if you put the ammo in your head or CT, compared to an IS mech that can die from an ammo explosion anywhere.

Well, if you only have 1 ST it will still kill.

[DjPush]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 11:31 AM, said:

I'll trade you my Timber Wolves, Dire Wolves and Storm Crows, for your cooler shoter burn lasers, cooler and shoort burn time pulse lasers, FLD AC's, and cooler PPC's....

And I will trade you some of my IS mechs for your higher damage, greater range, fewer crit space, lighter weight weapons, omnipods and the insane amout of weapons you can pack onto clan mechs. Mmmmkkkk? Here is an idea. Lets kill two birds with one stone. Start using C-UAC-X. Then others can stop complaining about TTK.

If you are really that bored with laser vomit than stop using so many freaking lasers. You won't, because your a hypocrite. You could learn to use the current weapon system as it is. You probably won't. Leading a target with one round is no different than lead in a target with five rounds. Or 30 in the case of a Direwolf with 6 UAC 5.

[Mcgral18]

DjPush, on 23 February 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

And I will trade you some of my IS mechs for your higher damage, greater range, fewer crit space, lighter weight weapons, omnipods and the insane amout of weapons you can pack onto clan mechs. Mmmmkkkk? Here is an idea. Lets kill two birds with one stone. Start using C-UAC-X. Then others can stop complaining about TTK.

If you are really that bored with laser vomit than stop using so many freaking lasers. You won't, because your a hypocrite. You could learn to use the current weapon system as it is. You probably won't. Leading a target with one round is no different than lead in a target with five rounds. Or 30 in the case of a Direwolf with 6 UAC 5.

It's considerably different, actually. Hitting something once is easy. Hitting something 5 times with a single trigger pull on a moving target is significantly more difficult.


The other issue is the mech. I know my Hunch can carry a (superior) AC20, lasers and enough ammo to last 3/4s of a match, while my Nova cannot. This is with the same size standard engine. Even the lighter (and inferior) cACs don't make up for the terrible optimisation.

The weight disparity is big.

[Metus regem]

DjPush, on 23 February 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

And I will trade you some of my IS mechs for your higher damage, greater range, fewer crit space, lighter weight weapons, omnipods and the insane amout of weapons you can pack onto clan mechs. Mmmmkkkk? Here is an idea. Lets kill two birds with one stone. Start using C-UAC-X. Then others can stop complaining about TTK.

If you are really that bored with laser vomit than stop using so many freaking lasers. You won't, because your a hypocrite. You could learn to use the current weapon system as it is. You probably won't. Leading a target with one round is no different than lead in a target with five rounds. Or 30 in the case of a Direwolf with 6 UAC 5.

Aside from my Hellbringers, I don't do Laser vomit.... Okay, well maybe my Adder Prime too, but she's a cougar prime knock off....

Otherwise all of my other mechs use a balanced load out of of an Energy, UAC and a missle....

My SMN-PRIME
My WHK-PRIME
My TBR-S

Get the idea of what I like to run?

[Nori Silverrage]

This is my current favorite Timber build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc2e1b2549d04b6

Ironically it has slightly worse sustained DPS than the TDR-9s post nerf (if you don't include the SPL which are only for backup/light rushes). And of course much less PPC velocity.

Edited by Nori Silverrage, 23 February 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[Zolaz]

Nori Silverrage, on 23 February 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

This is my current favorite Timber build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc2e1b2549d04b6

Ironically it has slightly worse sustained DPS than the TDR-9s post nerf (if you don't include the SPL which are only for backup/light rushes). And of course much less PPC velocity.

You are right ... why count in weapons as part of your build. lol

[Lexx]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

I'm sure that they were....

I remeber when they put in the splash mechanic to bring the clan ERPPC's more inline with the IS versions....

I'd be fine with clan ERPPCs getting 15/15 if IS ERPPCs went to 10/10 and IS PPCs went to 10/7.

You already have a weapon that is 1 ton lighter and 1 crit smaller than does 5 more damage, (although split). I don't think it needs to be even more superior without something on the other side to balance it.

Please don't bring up how clan mechs have fixed engines and components, because on the best mechs the clan has it really doesn't hurt them much.

On topic: I think they should never give any autocannon switchable ammo. What I think should be done is keep things like they are except change the clan regular (non ultra) autocannons to make them more attractive. They were a place holder originally, but if they were changed to shoot less projectiles per shot there would be a reason to take them over clan ultra autocannons. This would give them a purpose without obsoleting the ultra cannons since those would still have more damage potential.

Edited by Lexx, 23 February 2015 - 02:28 PM.

[Nori Silverrage]

Zolaz, on 23 February 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

You are right ... why count in weapons as part of your build. lol

Because they skew the numbers and the way to play this mech is to try and not be close enough to use those. Like I said, they are backup weapons meant to be used IF someone gets close. Can/do they get kills? Yes sometimes, but considering they account for less than 10% of the damage as a whole I see little point in including them.

Also the TDR-9S build I am comparing to is simply a 2 ERPCC with a bunch of heatsinks, there is technically space/tonnage (4t I believe) for it to fit some MPLs as a backup to increase it's "uncounted DPS".

Edited by Nori Silverrage, 23 February 2015 - 02:29 PM.

[Metus regem]

Lexx, on 23 February 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

I'd be fine with clan ERPPCs getting 15/15 if IS ERPPCs went to 10/10 and IS PPCs went to 10/7.

You already have a weapon that is 1 ton lighter and 1 crit smaller than does 5 more damage, (although split). I don't think it needs to be even more superior without something on the other side to balance it.

Please don't bring up how clan mechs have fixed engines and components, because on the best mechs the clan has it really doesn't hurt them much.

That's a fair point, but I would rather not have a 375 xl in the Timber Wolf, a 350xl would be just as good... even if it give me more pod space to work with, she doesn't need to be as fast as she is.

Also, I think I'm one of the few Clanners that think the Timber Wolf could use a slight, and I mean slight, mobility nerf, say 5-10% reduction in twisting and turning speed. With double basics she's just a little too mobile, mobility should be a Summoner halmark.

[WarZ]

DjPush, on 23 February 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

And I will trade you some of my IS mechs for your higher damage, greater range, fewer crit space, lighter weight weapons, omnipods and the insane amout of weapons you can pack onto clan mechs.

If you are really that bored with laser vomit than stop using so many freaking lasers.

The only time clans get to pack in a lot of weapons as you say, is if they are lasers...
Lasers which are VERY hot...

Clans simple cannot pack in significant ballistics, minus ONE mech.

Clans are almost forced to take lasers.

Read the discussion before making silly claims.

Clans have so many major disadvantages, I'm surprised there are so many claims of clan are OP. I pilot both. Even the vaunted timbers and sc's. The big advantage of clans is that the medium and heavy class of mechs are faster. Speed is good. However they pay for that speed by trading off firepower and weapon options. It is a BIG trade off.

I'm a good pilot. I can perform as well in my awesome 9m (non erppc build), as I can in my timber.

I swear most of the clans are OP statements are still made by players who drool over the basic stats and then get killed by clan mechs, all the while never actually owning / piloting one.

[Lexx]

Metus regem, on 23 February 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

That's a fair point, but I would rather not have a 375 xl in the Timber Wolf, a 350xl would be just as good... even if it give me more pod space to work with, she doesn't need to be as fast as she is.

Also, I think I'm one of the few Clanners that think the Timber Wolf could use a slight, and I mean slight, mobility nerf, say 5-10% reduction in twisting and turning speed. With double basics she's just a little too mobile, mobility should be a Summoner halmark.

I wouldn't be opposed to PGI changing the omni-mech rules so you could change the engine and even being able to move around the criticals. A fair trade for that would be to allow clan mechs to only be able to use either endo steel or ferro armor, but not both at the same time. Taking up half the critical slots of the IS versions makes them too good when you can have both of them in the same amount of space. This way clan omnis stuck with ferro could switch to endo and the uber clan omnis that have both would lose one of them to help balance.

[WarZ]

Lexx, on 23 February 2015 - 02:24 PM, said:

Please don't bring up how clan mechs have fixed engines and components, because on the best mechs the clan has it really doesn't hurt them much.

You are thoroughly wrong. It severely limits clan options of what they can and cannot build with. IS mechs can run builds with ballstics weapons that the clans can only DREAM of. Clan mechs are very one dimensional in what they can boat. Lasers. Which have a lot of heat. Which is no small thing.