115 replies to this topic

[Malckovich]

Don't see this as a good idea. As others have pointed out, accidents happen and this will just lead to other abuse cases. The game is fine as it is.

[Mystere]

Soul Tribunal, on 25 February 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

Its very simple on how to at least penalize this.
If a person does a % of their damage in total on a given match in FF damage, then they are penalized heavily in credits.
It happens in WoT, and tends to work fairly well. And to further that, the Credits he ends up being deducted, go to the player(s) he damaged.
SImple, effective, and tends to work well.

-ST

Does that mean I can step in front of a team mate's fire to earn more c-bills?

Edited by Mystere, 25 February 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Mechteric]

AUSwarrior24, on 24 February 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

Personally I don't think reflection is the answer. I think there just needs to be more feedback when you do slice through a friendly. Right now, you have zero indication, and IMO 95% of FF is just because players get lazy when they're hunting for a kill. Intentional team damage is another problem entirely.

I think the best way to discourage this is just to make doing it a nuisance. Not just feedback, but annoying feedback. So when you slice your weapons across a friendly, this might come up:

Exactly what I've been asking for, in addition to a nice annoying buzzer sound when you hit a friendly. It works wonders in Planetside 2 and is desperately needed here.

Also you should probably get some (but not too much, in the event of a friendly waltzing in front of your fire) CBill reduction for team damage instead of only in the event of a team kill. If it is shown in the results screen I think people will see there is a tangible downside to their reckless firing and will work harder to avoid it in the future.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 25 February 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[Ursh]

I see lots of people carefully positioning themselves and dodging fire by moving in and out of my site line after I staked out my firing position. When they move into my fire while playing peekaboo, I don't see how it's my fault if they get stripped or die.

When I see someone with their guns pointed at a spot where the enemy is likely to emerge from, I don't camp out in front of them, nor do I play peekaboo if my movement will take me in and out of their line of fire.

A guy got really mad at me one time on terra therma when he moved his cataphract directly between me and the enemy mech I was shooting, and I leaned on my trigger a bit harder rather than bothering to point away.

[Zolaz]

Instead of damage reflection there should be a very harsh c-bill penalty for team damage. You shouldnt make any money from a match with a team kill. It is ok for people to go into the negative for the match and for their account if they are doing a lot of it. Should make it easier to find those smurf accounts doing nothing but tking to.

[C E Dwyer]

Thing is I just came from a game, where all my rear armour was stripped, because some idiot, decided to shoot the other side, they need to shoot through me and the small hill I was using for cover, because another member of the team had this mech targeted.

Now I wanted to say some choice words to this cretin, but the point is, if you penalised people for being dumb the player base would shrink by half.

I'm fully aware I'm not a good enough light pilot to carry a team, like some of the really skilled people can.
so while I get to hang around with some of the names on the forums, when I'm in my assaults, when I'm piloting lights i'm in bargain basement matches.

I paid my money I have to deal with it

[Metus regem]

FupDup, on 24 February 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

The problem with nearly any team damage suggestion in general, including this thread's, is the case of False Positives. Not every infliction of team damage is deliberate, and sometimes it might even be more of the "victim's" fault than the shooter's.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

I pride myself on good trigger discipline, and dispite that, I do have killed one team mate during my entire time of MWO... and I felt really bad about it happening...

My Dakka Wolf was unloading on an Atlas, and as a friendly Kit Fox walked into my line of fire, with his back to me, at the same time I hit group fire for all 6, tapping it twice for the double tap, eating the heat since I was near dead anyways, and I obliterated that Kit Fox....

Other than that, I have been known to stop fireing, or point my guns skyward to avoid hitting a team mate that crosses infront of me, but not everyone is as careful.

That being said, as the Murphy's combat law goes, "Firendly fire, isn't." But to see it go away in MWO would just make pilots more derpy if you ask me.

[Arkadash]

Void Angel, on 24 February 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

[Griefers or trolls are] the hipsters of the internet.

This made me laugh out loud! So true!

[Almond Brown]

Mystere, on 25 February 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

Does that mean I can step in front of a team mate's fire to earn more c-bills?

Or worse, 2 players that end up on the same Team, one with 100bazillion c-bills, wants to help a friends bank so simply shoots him up, not to death of course, so the friend reaps the HUGE C-Bill bonus from the friends penalty, under play conditions where the new players own Match play would not earn them hardly any...

P.S. My idea, why not disallow Fire until a Mech has cleared the DZ by 150m, or set a timer of 30s. I can't fire my Arty for 60s, and for good reason. Apply the same logic for DZ FF.

And for anyone who thinks its "cute and harmless" to rake an allied player with a ML or 2, 12s into the Match, it isn't. Those 10 points of damage could mean the difference between my living and dying and our winning or Losing some 8-12 minutes later.

Edited by Almond Brown, 25 February 2015 - 09:23 AM.

[Felio]

Just delete FF. The negatives far outweigh the positives. Heat, cooldowns and ammo loss are all penalties for missing your enemy.

I know it's never going to happen, I just wish it would. The main reason FF is in the game is ego. You know, it's not like those noob games without FF.

[Mystere]

Felio, on 25 February 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

Just delete FF. The negatives far outweigh the positives.

No. All of the so-called "negatives" are player-related. As such, I don't want this game to be dumbed down even more that it already is. This is what happens when the lowest common denominator is catered to.

[BellatorMonk]

No matter what method is used, FF, Damage Reflection, FF with Cbill consequences, some troll will always use it to troll and make a victim out of someone.

The current FF system is fine since War is Hell and sh!t happens. It's basically a function of Elo to get those crap players or even someone who is simply having a bad night and it plays into a victory for the other team.

You cannot hand hold people on your team to the point where it actually prevents the enemy team from gaining victory from your team's mistakes.

Increase the cbill fines, report abusers of the FF system (intentionally stepping into line fire, etc) and drive on.

[wanderer]

Nope.

I have too many kill-hungry people charging in front of me as it is while I have a constant stream of fire going into my target.

Someone shoots me in the back, I just get out of the way. If I can't? They can eat the TK and the loss, I don't want someone that bad at MWO being rewarded for it. Someone gets in the line of fire? Be my guest, suck up the weapons fire while I get back to 180m and start lobbing LRMs over the top- one of the virtues of being a missile-lobber.

[SolasTau]

I'm pretty sure it was a BattleTech novel where the following was painted on a 'mech: "Incoming fire has right of way."

I know I've seen it on military vehicles as well. The statement is true. Practice safe skirmishing, don't run in front of people, and miracle of miracles, you won't eat Laser and Gauss alphas into your back.

Friendly Fire is part of the game. You need to be aware of it too.

I cannot TELL you the number of times I nearly cored someone gunning for my target, who then STOLE my kill shots. Happened a bunch over the weekend with all those kill hungry freaks. And one of those jerks ate HALF an alpha of Lasers off my Nova to his back armor on Forest Colony. Hell, I poured laser and UAC/10 fire into the back of a mech who danced in front of me on Crimson Strait, who then ALSO shouts "Watch the friendly fire!"


Battlefield awareness is a skill.


Get it in your head. People can't always see things clearly through the smoke and chaos of a battlefield. Sometime targets and friendlies cross lines of fire, and bad things happen. And sometimes people are just far enough away, at exactly the wrong angle, that they SEEM TO BE the enemy triangle target instead of the actual enemy.

[Kahadras]

Quote

Instead of damage reflection there should be a very harsh c-bill penalty for team damage.

I agree with this. There should be a XP and C-bill penalty for friendly fire (which becomes a more harsh penalty for a TK). An alarm indicating you are damaging a team mate would also be a good idea as well. Nobody is going to stop deliberate TKers from TKing but hopefully it will discourage people who spray fire into brawls in the hope of landing a killing blow (at the expense of damaging a team mate) should be fined for it. Maybe make it so the first bit of damage dealt doesn't count to avoid accidental damage.

Edited by Kahadras, 25 February 2015 - 10:20 AM.

[Roadkill]

This is a bad idea as has been explained in every other thread on the subject. What you're proposing would encourage trolls to jump in front of you as you fire so that you'll take the reflected damage and they can steal the kill you were trying to get.

Terrible idea. Yeah, friendly fire is annoying, but anything that punishes the firer without at least ALSO punishing the target just encourages the trolls.

[Necromantion]

I am all for penalizing friendly fire damage. Too many idiots in this game have no idea where their hardpoints are.

[Skarlock]

AUSwarrior24, on 24 February 2015 - 10:00 PM, said:

Personally I don't think reflection is the answer. I think there just needs to be more feedback when you do slice through a friendly. Right now, you have zero indication, and IMO 95% of FF is just because players get lazy when they're hunting for a kill. Intentional team damage is another problem entirely.

I think the best way to discourage this is just to make doing it a nuisance. Not just feedback, but annoying feedback. So when you slice your weapons across a friendly, this might come up:

I have only been playing this game for a few months but I really like this suggestion.

[Tarogato]

Sorry, I'm not reading this whole thread, my point is simple.

@OP: F%^& NO.

There are two solutions in my opinion that are cornerstone and would mitigate friendly fire.

1. Blue reticle when dealing damage to friendlies instead of a red reticle.

2. Significant penalties for dealing damage in FF. You get 10 C-Bills for every point of damage done to the enemy? You should be penalised 20 C-Bills for every point of damage dealt to friendlies.

(I don't actually know how many C-Bills you get for dealing a point of damage, that was just an example.)

[Kristov Kerensky]

Ah the joys of Friendly Fire and idiots playing online games...

BF1942, FF was optional, and we had a server tool that would automatically kick someone if they got X FF damage or kills. I'm the admin of the server, not wearing my admin tags as I was hunting for a known hack user. Some twit gets on the server and decides to start trolling by jumping in front of teammates as they are firing and running over team laid landmines. I have the server toss a warning out to him, he keeps doing it, and I actually got kicked due to him running over MY landmines on purpose. I log back in with my admin tags, inform him he just won a special reward for his excellence in team play and permbanned him. Said player complained on our forums about it, 40 people who were in that match chimed in and replied that he was warned, he was doing it on purpose and even bragged he would get everyone kicked. Server owner not only kept the ban in place but had me give the twit's IP to PB so he could be globally banned.

And that is the best way to deal with FF incidents, real live admins who are there to watch over and remove the ******* when they make their presence known. Other MMOs have them, but they also have persistent worlds that you play on, which MWO doesn't have, so it's rather difficult to deal with in real time that way.

WE have the support@mwomercs.com option, you report the ******* who constantly shoot at teammates AND the ******* who constantly jump in front of teammates who are firing. Support can check the logs, see what was going on, and deal with the offenders if required, give warnings to morons who can't figure out NOT to jump in front of stationary Mechs who are firing, or jump on the twits who think 'just scratching the paint' of teammates is funny at spawn.